Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[playground]

Curious does BMW warranty this even if the car is past the 4 years of warranty?

[aussiem3]

There might a goodwill warranty with BMW paying for parts and the owner for labour (in Australia) and that too depending on the mileage. I was told the bearings are part of normal wear and tear and BMW will not pay for it if it's a high mileage car. Once again this is coming from an Australian dealer and I don't how this will be applied in other markets.

[aus]

Added bigtracing's motor to the list.

If you know of any, please post here and I'll add to the first post.

.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by mkPOTO

I have been through this thread and was wondering if someone could link to which video sounds like the bearings are going out? Some of the videos posted sound like normal, but I want to be certain. Heard some noise this morning and nervous it could be the problem

Ever figure out what the noise was? Could just be paranoia now that everyone is worried. Hope your ride is ok

[pkimM3r]

Ticking from the top of the engine suggest lifters working when car is cold. Rod bearing ticking should come from under the car right?

[PandaM3]

Sums up whats going on and what needs to be done to fix this

Lang Racing on the S54 Rod Bearing problems http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887379

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Sums up whats going on and what needs to be done to fix this

Lang Racing on the S54 Rod Bearing problems http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887379

Lots of people on this thread seem to have strong opinions and experience with bearing clearances, building engines, etc but nobody has mentioned what I think the key point is, for those of us wondering if our car will blow up.

How many S65 engines were built and of those, how many blew up or suffered bearing failure? WIthout these numbers nobody (and I mean NOBODY) can tell if this is a problem or not. All manufactured systems have defect rates and in order to understand the defect rate and make predictions about the population, you need a fairly substantial sample size in order to build the right distribution.

However, in this case we don't know any of the numbers so we don't even know if this is a problem. What if 100 engines total failed? That would seem like a lot, especially if most of them found their way to the forum, but how many were built in the last 5 years? 25,000? That would mean an engine failure due to bearing wear would be a 4 sigma event - occurring less than half of a percent of the time. In which case the wisest course of action would be to ignore this thread.

But if 4000 engines had failed, we ought to be starting the registry and contacting BMW because then it's a different situation. See what I mean?

We lack the basic facts to make any sort of reasonable assessment of the magnitude of the problem.

Pat

[aus]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

Lots of people on this thread seem to have strong opinions and experience with bearing clearances, building engines, etc but nobody has mentioned what I think the key point is, for those of us wondering if our car will blow up.

How many S65 engines were built and of those, how many blew up or suffered bearing failure? WIthout these numbers nobody (and I mean NOBODY) can tell if this is a problem or not. All manufactured systems have defect rates and in order to understand the defect rate and make predictions about the population, you need a fairly substantial sample size in order to build the right distribution.

However, in this case we don't know any of the numbers so we don't even know if this is a problem. What if 100 engines total failed? That would seem like a lot, especially if most of them found their way to the forum, but how many were built in the last 5 years? 25,000? That would mean an engine failure due to bearing wear would be a 4 sigma event - occurring less than half of a percent of the time. In which case the wisest course of action would be to ignore this thread.

But if 4000 engines had failed, we ought to be starting the registry and contacting BMW because then it's a different situation. See what I mean?

We lack the basic facts to make any sort of reasonable assessment of the magnitude of the problem.

Pat

You think BMW is going to give us the facts?
The only reason they owned up to the S54 was because people posted their engines with big holes in them on the net... SMG engines, so BMW couldn't claim it was due to over revs. That's all this registry is. To collect and gather info, and maybe it'll help someone get an engine replaced. Like a board member here who hired a lawyer to get their engine fixed. I'm sure having this list doesn't hurt.

.

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by aus

You think BMW is going to give us the facts?
The only reason they owned up to the S54 was because people posted their engines with big holes in them on the net... SMG engines, so BMW couldn't claim it was due to over revs. That's all this registry is. To collect and gather info, and maybe it'll help someone get an engine replaced. Like a board member here who hired a lawyer to get their engine fixed. I'm sure having this list doesn't hurt.

.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all in favor of the registry. I owned a 2001 M3 and I had my motor replaced so I'm very familiar with these issues.

I'm just saying I agree with the folks who say don't go off and spend $5K on having your engine disassembled and measured because nobody (except for BMW) knows if this is a significant problem or not.

Pat

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

Lots of people on this thread seem to have strong opinions and experience with bearing clearances, building engines, etc but nobody has mentioned what I think the key point is, for those of us wondering if our car will blow up.

How many S65 engines were built and of those, how many blew up or suffered bearing failure? WIthout these numbers nobody (and I mean NOBODY) can tell if this is a problem or not. All manufactured systems have defect rates and in order to understand the defect rate and make predictions about the population, you need a fairly substantial sample size in order to build the right distribution.

However, in this case we don't know any of the numbers so we don't even know if this is a problem. What if 100 engines total failed? That would seem like a lot, especially if most of them found their way to the forum, but how many were built in the last 5 years? 25,000? That would mean an engine failure due to bearing wear would be a 4 sigma event - occurring less than half of a percent of the time. In which case the wisest course of action would be to ignore this thread.

But if 4000 engines had failed, we ought to be starting the registry and contacting BMW because then it's a different situation. See what I mean?

We lack the basic facts to make any sort of reasonable assessment of the magnitude of the problem.

Pat

Agreed on all points. I've been down this road. No opinions will be swayed. Just like my point of view...this is all opinions. Essentially I see this as a small group of a small group of a mass produced car that are seeing these failures.

If you applied the past reliability history of M cars...it makes the E9X look like a Toyota...sans the Prius.

[HapaM3]

Add my 2008 to the list with 47000 miles.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by HapaM3

Add my 2008 to the list with 47000 miles.

What was the cause?

[aus]

Originally Posted by HapaM3

Add my 2008 to the list with 47000 miles.

Thanks. Will do.
Sorry to hear that.

[jacobe92]

Did you get extended warranty?

[HapaM3]

Originally Posted by regular guy

What was the cause?

My car is in stock trim minus lowering springs and exhaust. I purchased it with 32000 miles. Took it to Buttonwillow. It started to develop a dipping idle at times, but no other symptoms. In the middle of my 4th session of the day I got a terrible rod knock so I pitted and shut it off. At that point I knew what was going on. I was only briefly informed about rod bearing issues on this car the week before taking it to BW. If I had known more about it, I certainly would have stopped driving it and pulled the pan. I definitely now rule the dipping idle as the bearings tightening up.

[HapaM3]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

But if 4000 engines had failed, we ought to be starting the registry and contacting BMW because then it's a different situation. See what I mean?

We lack the basic facts to make any sort of reasonable assessment of the magnitude of the problem.

Pat

What we need is a buddy on the inside who can tell us how many rebuilt long block units have been sold. Even then, some people have purchased recycled engines and some have rebuilt theirs themselves. The some fact remains. You talk to anyone who works at a BMW dealership, like at the parts counter, and they are familiar with M3s coming in and having engines replaced. There is usually one in the bay too!

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by HapaM3

What we need is a buddy on the inside who can tell us how many rebuilt long block units have been sold. Even then, some people have purchased recycled engines and some have rebuilt theirs themselves. The some fact remains. You talk to anyone who works at a BMW dealership, like at the parts counter, and they are familiar with M3s coming in and having engines replaced. There is usually one in the bay too!

+1

Last summer I knew of multiple local dealership all replacing engines around the same time. Since it's been nearly a year, I don't remember exactly how many dealers in my area alone or how many cars. But if memory serves me correctly, it was four dealership and six cars. One detail I do remember was my own servicing dealer told me they had three blown motors due to rod bearing failure in the few weeks prior to my visit.

Now, to many here on the forums, that's all hearsay. When they believe if the engines aren't reported here...they get to pretend like they don't exist and the failures never happened. It's pretty strange.

But my experience mimics yours. All our local dealership have replaced engines due to rod bearing failure, and sometimes like last summer, it's multiple replacements per month.

[MasterP]

I shared my engine failure here in march:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=963103

Now that the warranty company and shop are nearly done I'll share.

Here's my epic catastrophe:


IMG_5876 by rioyellows2k, on Flickr


1505542_624466694294808_5498782317600750192_n by rioyellows2k, on Flickr

#8 Cylinder. Original Cause of failure was rod bearing failure. Massive additional damage from attempting to restart the engine after failure.

This is how extensive the collateral damage was. The pic is looking up at the head from the crank. Crank is damaged. Bits of metal damaged the throttles, heads, oil pan was missing a chunk. Basically anything that touched oil was damaged.


IMG_0234 by rioyellows2k, on Flickr

Engine was replaced under warranty with a LKQ engine from a 2011 with 40K miles. The rod bearings were replaced on this engine as a precaution. Surprised to see this much wear on a 2011 engine with 40K miles.


10262058_635652503176227_4490683356942830873_n by rioyellows2k, on Flickr

So I got 2 for 1 on S65's in my car.

I had to get a brand new oil cooler, oil lines and manifold/plenum, as unknown amounts of tiny bits of metal got in them.

And as a bonus these are Bearings from another 2008 S65 with 100K miles being serviced at the same shop.


1010597_10201697515059623_5522055089273154687_n by rioyellows2k, on Flickr

[aus]

Originally Posted by TrakBch

I shared my engine failure here in march:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=963103

Now that the warranty company and shop are nearly done I'll share.

Here's my epic catastrophe:




#8 Cylinder. Original Cause of failure was rod bearing failure. Massive additional damage from attempting to restart the engine after failure.

This is how extensive the collateral damage was. The pic is looking up at the head from the crank. Crank is damaged. Bits of metal damaged the throttles, heads, oil pan was missing a chunk. Basically anything that touched oil was damaged.



Engine was replaced under warranty with a LKQ engine from a 2011 with 40K miles. The rod bearings were replaced on this engine as a precaution. Surprised to see this much wear on a 2011 engine with 40K miles.



So I got 2 for 1 on S65's in my car.

I had to get a brand new oil cooler, oil lines and manifold/plenum, as unknown amounts of tiny bits of metal got in them.

And as a bonus these are Bearings from another 2008 S65 with 100K miles being serviced at the same shop.

Pics aren't working for me? Any one else seeing the pics?

.

[MasterP]

Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.

[aus]

Originally Posted by TrakBch

Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.

What a MESS!!!
Good to hear you're on your way again.

.

[pbonsalb]

I plan to buy the Bimmerworld rod bearing kit for $750 (WPC treated 702/703 bearings with ARP bolts) this year for my 2008 M3 with 60k miles. The potential damage is not worth the risk of going much longer -- not that age or mileage seems to be the factor.