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      06-01-2016, 12:10 AM   #67
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To address a few concerns that have been brought up in case there has been any misunderstandings here :

1. ESS does not directly support used kits sold through 3rd parties, we offer a spare parts section on our website where common replacement components/subassemblies for most of our systems can be purchased online. These replacement parts do not come with support and all sales are final.

2. ESS will not sell or support overboost pulleys, ESS kits are designed, calibrated and tested with a specific pulley configuration regardless of elevation. Overboosting for altitude is something we absolutely do not do as eventually that car will make it to sea level and there can be massive problems. We do not market overboost pulleys, nor do we claim this is a feature we offer with our S65 SC kit. Our S65 VT2-625 SC system is rated at ~48-50% gain from stock, and as you will find almost all cars with this kit installed performs at this gain level or above. The next S65 system up (VT2-650) is an extensively upgraded kit with a completely new beltdrive system featuring different drive ratios, 7rib belt to avoid slippage at the higher supercharger speeds, different fuel injectors, different ECU calibration parameters and it requires 93AKI+ fuel at all times. Upgraded rod bearings should also be installed.

3. The fact that someone emails/calls 30+ times a day harassing and threatening to “destroy” us on public forums will not change this policy at all, it will just get you directed to our legal department who deals with all harassing and threatening inquiries. The fact remains, overboosting a 625 kit is unsafe and absolutely not something we want to be a part of. Since some customers apparently seem to feel more competent than us to make this engineering decision, we recommend that they make these changes on their own and refrain from calling us if they end up with a very expensive problem as a result.

For potential customers that do not agree with these terms that are clearly listed on our website, there are plenty of other options out there to choose from. Some of them may be a better fit and we wish them the best of luck.

Any further questions on this topic that relates to ESS can be directed through our normal channels as I will not be able to monitor this thread further.
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      06-01-2016, 12:46 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS View Post
To address a few concerns that have been brought up in case there has been any misunderstandings here :

1. ESS does not directly support used kits sold through 3rd parties, we offer a spare parts section on our website where common replacement components/subassemblies for most of our systems can be purchased online. These replacement parts do not come with support and all sales are final.

2. ESS will not sell or support overboost pulleys, ESS kits are designed, calibrated and tested with a specific pulley configuration regardless of elevation. Overboosting for altitude is something we absolutely do not do as eventually that car will make it to sea level and there can be massive problems. We do not market overboost pulleys, nor do we claim this is a feature we offer with our S65 SC kit. Our S65 VT2-625 SC system is rated at ~48-50% gain from stock, and as you will find almost all cars with this kit installed performs at this gain level or above. The next S65 system up (VT2-650) is an extensively upgraded kit with a completely new beltdrive system featuring different drive ratios, 7rib belt to avoid slippage at the higher supercharger speeds, different fuel injectors, different ECU calibration parameters and it requires 93AKI+ fuel at all times. Upgraded rod bearings should also be installed.

3. The fact that someone emails/calls 30+ times a day harassing and threatening to “destroy” us on public forums will not change this policy at all, it will just get you directed to our legal department who deals with all harassing and threatening inquiries. The fact remains, overboosting a 625 kit is unsafe and absolutely not something we want to be a part of. Since some customers apparently seem to feel more competent than us to make this engineering decision, we recommend that they make these changes on their own and refrain from calling us if they end up with a very expensive problem as a result.

For potential customers that do not agree with these terms that are clearly listed on our website, there are plenty of other options out there to choose from. Some of them may be a better fit and we wish them the best of luck.

Any further questions on this topic that relates to ESS can be directed through our normal channels as I will not be able to monitor this thread further.
How did I know there was more to this story than OP was telling? I just didn't want to be the first to say it. I'm still not convinced ESS did anything wrong or atleast that it went down 100% as OP recalls. ESS will still be getting my business for a used setup and possibly tuning as well. nothing wrong with not supporting used kits. they don't know where the kit has been or what's been done with it so it's a liability for them to support a second hand setup. many companies have similar policies with their products..typically of higher end. Rolex comes to mind with their policy on not servicing any watch that isnt 100% original. It's a company policy. just because you don't like it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.

This is getting good.
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      06-01-2016, 12:50 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by |||||||||| View Post
How did I know there was more to this story than OP was telling? I just didn't want to be the first to say it. I'm still not convinced ESS did anything wrong or atleast that it went down 100% as OP recalls. ESS will still be getting my business for a used setup and possibly tuning as well. nothing wrong with not supporting used kits. they don't know where the kit has been or what's been done with it so it's a liability for them to support a second hand setup. many companies have similar policies with their products..typically of higher end. Rolex comes to mind with their policy on not servicing any watch that isnt 100% original. It's a company policy. just because you don't like it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.

This is getting good.
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      06-01-2016, 12:59 AM   #70
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As I stated - I never asked for any support (Technical or otherwise), simply to pay for a part off the shelf.

I have every single email regarding this matter as well as a recorded call of the last conversation that I will ever have with this particular company.

The loss of PSI at altitude can easily be rectified with a single PSI increase and empirical real world data supports this statement.

The email count and total time on the phone with a particular company is easily documented with phone records and email count that can/will be produced.

A simple google search of:

Bimmer

Boost

A particular company name and/or individual name will support the level of service claimed in this interaction with multiple instances of personal attacks in written communication.

The reputation of any company that retains assistance to scrub the internet to remove candid and honest feedback speaks for itself.
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She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.

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      06-01-2016, 05:30 AM   #71
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So basically Ess refused to sell you a higher boost pulley to protect your engine from going kaboom at sea level and you aren't happy.
How about if Ess actually sold you the higher boost pulley and you blew your motor ? What happens now ? I guess Ess is the one to blame at this point .
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      06-01-2016, 06:43 AM   #72
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I requested a smaller pulley to compensate for 3,500 feet above sea level and the negative effect on loss of boost.

Manifold absolute pressure measured at the at 310' above seal level on 93 gas using a 1 year old Dynojet reflects a 1 psi increase pulley would still be within tolerance using stated calculations.

Just as a particular company claims each kit makes a ~ variance in power output, so too is the level of boost each kit makes with elevation changes. I am simply trying to achieve claimed levels of performance within stated collars for tolerance.

Rather than work with me to find an appropriate solution to meet my needs, I was given a sales pitch initially, then conflicting information - they don't sell the part - they do sell the part...which turned into personal attacks outside of the business transaction.

This particular company can refuse to sell a product at any time - but the way you treat people during and after speaks to the type on company I will no longer chose to do business with.

Also, I had refrained from posting any comments of this transaction until after I received a third party warning against do so. A week after my last interaction from this particular company.

I have stated numerous times - I have zero issues with the actual kit.
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She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      06-01-2016, 08:01 AM   #73
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Insulting an individual is not called for from a company, many in this thread have attested to ESS' rude treatment of customers and lack of customer service. Installing a pulley to compensate for altitude is not unheard of or uncommon.
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      06-01-2016, 08:07 AM   #74
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I'm less concerned about their policies and more concerned with their handling of customer service. Nothing AJ said makes up for their terrible customer service and legal threats. How does a customer get to the point of saying they will "destroy you on the internet" in the first place?

They don't want to be a part of over boosting, but they offered the guy the pulley for FREE if he wouldn't write about his experience with their shit service. Apparently, they don't mind being a part of the overboosting.... Maybe they should have just treated the dude right, helped him out, got him his pulley which he wanted to pay for, but made sure that he understood the risks involved and that there is no warranty.

ESS posts about the 30 emails and calls a day.... which is most likely an exaggeration... as if to put their customer in a bad light. Sorry, if your customer needs to call and email 30 times a day, then YOU suck, ESS. I would fire every one of my employees involved if we had a situation that got to this point. Unreal.
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      06-01-2016, 08:11 AM   #75
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customer service is the life blood of any company. if OP's request was not reasonable in the eyes of ESS that should have been the end of it. sounds like it turned personal and threat to sue was made. next thread will be details from 'I got sued' thread.
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      06-01-2016, 08:26 AM   #76
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For the benefit of transparency - I never stated I'd destroy any company.

When/if this is taken further - A company's own written communication is a powerful tool when directed at the consumer in matters of this nature.
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She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.

Last edited by ASBSECU E93; 06-01-2016 at 08:43 AM..
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      06-01-2016, 09:18 AM   #77
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"I explained that I'd share this experience among others who share a similar interest, and ONLY THEN did this company want to 'give' me this particular part provided I never spoke of it."

"For the benefit of transparency - I never stated I'd destroy any company."


You may be splitting hairs a bit.
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      06-01-2016, 09:33 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
"I explained that I'd share this experience among others who share a similar interest, and ONLY THEN did this company want to 'give' me this particular part provided I never spoke of it."

"For the benefit of transparency - I never stated I'd destroy any company."


You may be splitting hairs a bit.

I don't agree. He told them he would share with others. Welcome to the internet. Ever heard of Yelp? Restaurants have known how important it is for a long time.

"Destroy the company" and threatening to write about a bad experience, to me, while in the same spectrum, imply very different things.
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      06-01-2016, 09:41 AM   #79
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Perhaps Doc Oc.

I spoke my peace - moving on...

Life is always the best teacher.
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She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      06-01-2016, 10:15 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post

A simple google search of:

Bimmer

Boost

A particular company name and/or individual name will support the level of service claimed in this interaction with multiple instances of personal attacks in written communication.

The reputation of any company that retains assistance to scrub the internet to remove candid and honest feedback speaks for itself.
99.99% of posts in any thread are sticky's posts.
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      06-01-2016, 11:24 AM   #81
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That post is a bit condescending...or is it just me?
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      06-01-2016, 01:28 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Perhaps Doc Oc.

I spoke my peace - moving on...

Life is always the best teacher.
I guess you're kind of in a bad situation as you may have plenty of evidence to back up exactly what you say but can't share it due to fear of being sued. Personally I'd put it out there, but I understand not wanting to go through the hassle.
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      06-01-2016, 01:32 PM   #83
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Yea - apparently with the internet the threat is omnipresent.

Also - not matter how this is read/perceived, I'm the one with sour grapes....
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      06-01-2016, 01:46 PM   #84
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Regardless, it's good to know....always got to look out for the community here.
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      06-01-2016, 05:02 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS
To address a few concerns that have been brought up in case there has been any misunderstandings here :

1. ESS does not directly support used kits sold through 3rd parties, we offer a spare parts section on our website where common replacement components/subassemblies for most of our systems can be purchased online. These replacement parts do not come with support and all sales are final.

2. ESS will not sell or support overboost pulleys, ESS kits are designed, calibrated and tested with a specific pulley configuration regardless of elevation. Overboosting for altitude is something we absolutely do not do as eventually that car will make it to sea level and there can be massive problems. We do not market overboost pulleys, nor do we claim this is a feature we offer with our S65 SC kit. Our S65 VT2-625 SC system is rated at ~48-50% gain from stock, and as you will find almost all cars with this kit installed performs at this gain level or above. The next S65 system up (VT2-650) is an extensively upgraded kit with a completely new beltdrive system featuring different drive ratios, 7rib belt to avoid slippage at the higher supercharger speeds, different fuel injectors, different ECU calibration parameters and it requires 93AKI+ fuel at all times. Upgraded rod bearings should also be installed.

3. The fact that someone emails/calls 30+ times a day harassing and threatening to “destroy” us on public forums will not change this policy at all, it will just get you directed to our legal department who deals with all harassing and threatening inquiries. The fact remains, overboosting a 625 kit is unsafe and absolutely not something we want to be a part of. Since some customers apparently seem to feel more competent than us to make this engineering decision, we recommend that they make these changes on their own and refrain from calling us if they end up with a very expensive problem as a result.

For potential customers that do not agree with these terms that are clearly listed on our website, there are plenty of other options out there to choose from. Some of them may be a better fit and we wish them the best of luck.

Any further questions on this topic that relates to ESS can be directed through our normal channels as I will not be able to monitor this thread further.
Re-read through thread and I have another question. Did you know the kit was used when you sold OP the tune?

If so, that's a little hypocritical to not sell the requested part.
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      06-01-2016, 05:25 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
JoeM3SSII:

I'll paraphrase my original comment - I never asked for service in any form.

I asked to purchase a part they admitted to having in stock, only to then be told no when it was discovered I was not the original owner.

After a few exchanges - others joined the conversation.

Then - I was told I could have the part if I "Just went away" but "Told no one".

This comment was made in retort to my stated issues with said customer service and my desire to share said experience among a peer group.

At this point - the conversation turned south...personal attacks began....I ended communications.

Fast forward a week - stern communication from retained persons....and here we are.
Great, I see no discrepancies between my depicting of where things stand legally and your posts inclusive of the last one "self-paraphrase". From all you've said i can conclude they are not in any way violating the law. Yes, AFAIK a business can sell you something and ask you not to tell anyone. It's called reverse psychology marketing (even if they were in a different mindset here). Some companies market their product as a guarded secret. You've got absolutely nothing on them.

Just a disclaimer, i am not giving any legal advice here, just expressing my personal views and opinion about the things you have said in this thread. Also some guy above misunderstood the scope of my post. What is lawful for a company and what it can do to maximize customer satisfaction are two entirely different discussions. Obviously none of what i said portended to customer service strategies. I don't think i can judge their customer service from your story, from what i see it's a misunderstanding on your part about what you are entitled to.
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      06-01-2016, 05:31 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
JoeM3SSII:

I'll paraphrase my original comment - I never asked for service in any form.

I asked to purchase a part they admitted to having in stock, only to then be told no when it was discovered I was not the original owner.

After a few exchanges - others joined the conversation.

Then - I was told I could have the part if I "Just went away" but "Told no one".

This comment was made in retort to my stated issues with said customer service and my desire to share said experience among a peer group.

At this point - the conversation turned south...personal attacks began....I ended communications.

Fast forward a week - stern communication from retained persons....and here we are.
Great, I see no discrepancies between my depicting of where things stand legally and your posts inclusive of the last one "self-paraphrase". From all you've said i can conclude they are not in any way violating the law. Yes, AFAIK a business can sell you something and ask you not to tell anyone. It's called reverse psychology marketing (even if they were in a different mindset here). Some companies market their product as a guarded secret. You've got absolutely nothing on them.

Just a disclaimer, i am not giving any legal advice here, just expressing my personal views and opinion about the things you have said in this thread. Also some guy above misunderstood the scope of my post. What is lawful for a company and what it can do to maximize customer satisfaction are two entirely different discussions. Obviously none of what i said portended to customer service strategies. I don't think i can judge their customer service from your story, from what i see it's a misunderstanding on your part about what you are entitled to.
Agree to disagree.

Someone noted above a very good point - the company was more than willing to sell a tune on a known used kit, but not a part?
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She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      06-01-2016, 06:24 PM   #88
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Re-read through thread and I have another question. Did you know the kit was used when you sold OP the tune?

If so, that's a little hypocritical to not sell the requested part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Agree to disagree.

Someone noted above a very good point - the company was more than willing to sell a tune on a known used kit, but not a part?
Was the tune they sold you for the kit you bought or one up from the one you bought?

If you bought a 625 kit and got the associated software for a 625 kit, however, wanted a pulley for a 650 kit to run with the 625 kit, I can't see why ESS is in the wrong based on AJ's post.

Again, (because it wasn't answered) I'd like to know what company you work for and your title because how I interpret your statement of facts, it looks like things may have gone south based on those two things.

So did you eventually find a way to get that other pulley you need from someone else? I'd like to read a happy ending to this ordeal.
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