Watkins Glen Sep 21-22

[klammer]

Wow! That was great! Will definitely match these inputs/insights up with vids I'm watching. Thanks so much this info is a great help

[CanAutM3]

Here's the vid of my third session. This is my last recording until I ran out of memory space.

The E36 that you see fly by me was running in the 2:12s. Very good driver in a well setup car .

[klammer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Here's the vid of my third session. This is my last recording until I ran out of memory space.

The E36 that you see fly by me was running in the 2:12s. Very good driver in a well setup car .

Great video, thank you for sharing. And yes, e36's are always scary fast out there.

[Candide13]

[QUOTE=CanAutM3;14651624]We stayed at the Seneca Lodge. Not the best accommodations, but it is not expensive, the food is decent and the beer is good . I will try something else next time though...

The glen is a very honest track, with the concrete patches giving a good hint at where the line is. It has a lot of banking that needs to be leveraged for quick laps. Here are my observations. Note that I ran the track only 5 sessions in all, so take it with a grain of salt . My recommended shifts are for DCT with a stock rear end; might be different with your 3.45 .

Excellent -- for those of us who uninitiated, what settings do you run there for suspension + power? I guess you keep MDM on?

Looking forward to seeing it for real on Oct 9...

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

We stayed at the Seneca Lodge. Not the best accommodations, but it is not expensive, the food is decent and the beer is good . I will try something else next time though...

The glen is a very honest track, with the concrete patches giving a good hint at where the line is. It has a lot of banking that needs to be leveraged for quick laps. Here are my observations. Note that I ran the track only 5 sessions in all, so take it with a grain of salt . My recommended shifts are for DCT with a stock rear end; might be different with your 3.45 .

OK, so here goes:

Front straight, start braking slightly past the patch in the asphalt. Brake early because the entire braking is done downhill. Downshift to third. Early and lazy turn-in while trail braking all the way to the apex (this is the only way I could get our heavy car to pivot and still nail the apex). You need to ride the first half of the curb at the apex (ride the flat half, avoid the angled half). Full throttle as soon as you hit the apex, the camber and curbing at the exit will catch you. Shift into 4th.

Slight and short lift going into 2 and then full throttle up the hill (with more guts, might be able to take it flat out, but I have not tried it). Don't turn-in too early to get a good positioning for turn 3, but try to get into the groove as fast as possible to leverage the camber.

Very slight lift during the right-left transition into 3 and then full throttle as soon as the weight transfer is done (again here, pretty sure it can be taken flat out, but I did not have the confidence to do it yet). Late apex 3 to get a good run into 4.

Flat out through 4 and all the way through the back straight. Try to keep the wheels as straight as possible through 4 to avoid scrubbing off valuable speed. Shift into 5th and maybe 6th if you had a good run through the esses. Into the bus stop, brake at or slightly past the 500 mark (can most likely brake much later here), downshift to 4th, turn-in in the first portion of the curbing on the left, trail brake way into the bus stop. Aggressively ride the curbing on the right (the more you ride the curb, the less it upsets the car). Hit the curb on the left. Try to stay on the concrete while arcing through the bus stop and nail the other curb on the left. Avoid hitting the fourth curbing (on the right) and exit all the way to the edge of the track to get a good entry into 5.

Maintenance throttle going into 5. Look far ahead and with throttle steer, aim for the flagger cabin, that is where the apex is hidden. As soon as you see the track out, full throttle and let the car drift to the outer edge of the track. Avoid the outside curb as it upsets the car.

Cross the track to the entry of 6, sharp braking, downshift to 3rd, late and lazy turn-in with some trail braking. The track has a lot of banking here, so it can be taken faster than it seems. Full throttle as soon as you see the track out point. Upshift to 4th.

Cross the track to the entry of 7. You can brake very late (at or after the 200 mark) because the last portion of the braking zone is sharply uphill. Downshift to 3rd. Aim for the centre of the concrete patch. Trail brake all the way into the big concrete patch to get the car to rotate. You want the car pointing in the right direction when you hit the late apex because the uphill angle decreases at track out and the car will understeer. At track out, use the little pavement extension. Upshift to 4th and maybe 5th if you got 7 right.

From here to the front straight is the section in which I think I left the most time on the table

Brake late into 8, with a sharp turn-in to get into the groove. Use the concrete patch as a guide. Downshift to 3rd. You need to get very close to the apex to leverage the banking (I struggled with that because the inside curb is as sharp as a sidewalk curb). The track opens up more than expected, so way more speed can be carried into the turn. Upshift to 4th for the last short burst up the hill.

Sharp braking and downshift to 3rd into 9. You really need to throw the car into 9 with some trail braking because the turn-in is uphill and then the angle tapers off; the car starts to understeer. Don't trail brake too deep because the back end will get wiggly. Aim for the middle of the concrete patch and then throttle steer the car towards the apex. Use the pavement extension at track out. Upshift to 4th.

I always over-braked going into 10. Use the little pavement extention on the right side on the track to get a better turn-in (sort of like a mini Norvegian flick). Again here, the track opens up more than expected. The track out is difficult to judge because the curbing is blacked out from rubber marks. Flat out to 11.

Slight braking into 11 (again here, I always over-braked). Sharp turn-in with trail braking to leverage the banking and full throttle at the apex to drift-out as close to the wall as your guts can handle. Upshift to 4th and 5th on the front straight.

Hope this helps .

Maybe others can chime-in to add their 2 cents.

Great write up! I have been studying the Glen as well for my trip next week (9/18-19 w/ CCA Boston Chapter). This is very well thought out - thank you.

[M3 Esq]

Hey Klammer, a friend lent me this to watch. It's decent, at least it gives you an idea of what to expect. I expect I'll just be listening to my instructor and trying to learn the track the first day. Maybe all of this info will make more sense after we'ver driven there a few sessions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Secret...item4d09bd4f1c

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Candide13

Excellent -- for those of us who uninitiated, what settings do you run there for suspension + power? I guess you keep MDM on?

Looking forward to seeing it for real on Oct 9...

My standard track settings:
Power: Sport
Servotronic: Sport
EDC: Sport (Normal for bumpy tracks)
DSC: Off
DCT: S6

My two first sessions out, I ran with DSC on MDM to get confidence about the grip level and in case I did something stupid . Once I got familiar with the track layout and intricacies, I went DSC off to have full control over the car. The video is with DSC off. I suggest you explore the many threads on the forum about using DSC/MDM at the track before you decide to turn it off .

Enjoy it, this track rocks

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My standard track settings:
Power: Sport
Servotronic: Sport
EDC: Sport (Normal for bumpy tracks)
DSC: Off
DCT: S6

My two first sessions out, I ran with DSC on MDM to get confidence about the grip level and in case I did something stupid . Once I got familiar with the track layout and intricacies, I went DSC off to have full control over the car. The video is with DSC off. I suggest you explore the many threads on the forum about using DSC/MDM at the track before you decide to turn it off .

Enjoy it, this track rocks

Thanks, excellent! As a newbie, I am pretty sure my MDM will stay on. Fooling around with the EDC on normal roads I haven't noticed much difference between the upper two settings, but will set it to Sport. Only real difference is my DCT setting, which is always on 6MT

Greatly looking forward to it...

[klammer]

Originally Posted by M3 Esq.

Hey Klammer, a friend lent me this to watch. It's decent, at least it gives you an idea of what to expect. I expect I'll just be listening to my instructor and trying to learn the track the first day. Maybe all of this info will make more sense after we'ver driven there a few sessions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Secret...item4d09bd4f1c

I forgot about that one! Looks pretty much ideal, but unfortunately, the seller isn't available till next week, so probably wouldn't even get here before I leave. Going to have trouble sleeping this weekend

[OC3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Here's the vid of my third session. This is my last recording until I ran out of memory space.

The E36 that you see fly by me was running in the 2:12s. Very good driver in a well setup car .

Nice video and driving!

Unlike here in Socal, man, you really can't screw around with them walls so close by.

[e92doc]

I'll be there!!!! The Glen is my wife's and I favorite track!! I'm sure you have a hotel by now but a lot fill up fast (the Habor was booked in July when we called). Staying in Horseheads is close and ok. You're going to have a great time, its a great track and location. Look for us- the wife will be in a MCB M5 and ill be in my M3- we put M Sripes for the event so it's hard to miss us. Have fun

[arter]

Might be a chance of rain during this event ( always at the Glen -= if not fog or ice).

If so, the number 1 rule is keep your outside wheels off the concrete when it is wet. Also off the sealer when wet. Here is a wet run of mine which might help.

An update is to brake in the middle or the inside going into turn 1 ( more braking traction there). Turn 1 is very wet with water coming across the track in the turn. You will be sawing your steering wheel in this turn ( slip.. grip..slip.. grip)

Turn 5 also has water going across the track at the apex, but you can just straighten the wheels there
.
The boot is very slippery ( see crashed cars just after turn on 1st lap), stay off the concrete and gentle throttle).

Turn 9, I take in inside track slow as the outside area is much longer and I think the faster speeds possible don't make up for the distance.

Running in the rain teaches you to be smooth, with the brakes, with acceleration, with turns. A very good learning experience.
Suggested with street tires

[klammer]

Originally Posted by e92doc

I'll be there!!!! The Glen is my wife's and I favorite track!! I'm sure you have a hotel by now but a lot fill up fast (the Habor was booked in July when we called). Staying in Horseheads is close and ok. You're going to have a great time, its a great track and location. Look for us- the wife will be in a MCB M5 and ill be in my M3- we put M Sripes for the event so it's hard to miss us. Have fun

Will keep an eye out. I'll probably be the only car with Illinois plates

Originally Posted by arter

Might be a chance of rain during this event ( always at the Glen -= if not fog or ice).

If so, the number 1 rule is keep your outside wheels off the concrete when it is wet. Also off the sealer when wet. Here is a wet run of mine which might help.

An update is to brake in the middle or the inside going into turn 1 ( more braking traction there). Turn 1 is very wet with water coming across the track in the turn. You will be sawing your steering wheel in this turn ( slip.. grip..slip.. grip)

Turn 5 also has water going across the track at the apex, but you can just straighten the wheels there
.
The boot is very slippery ( see crashed cars just after turn on 1st lap), stay off the concrete and gentle throttle).

Turn 9, I take in inside track slow as the outside area is much longer and I think the faster speeds possible don't make up for the distance.

Running in the rain teaches you to be smooth, with the brakes, with acceleration, with turns. A very good learning experience.
Suggested with street tires

I sure hope not, but I'm seeing what you're seeing. Thanks so much for that video, let's hope I don't have to use it

[arter]

Looks great for friday, 82 and sunny so should get a lot of runs in then.
Saturday looks like some rain, hopefully not the whole day.
Sunday is cooler, but sunny again.

[klammer]

Originally Posted by arter

Looks great for friday, 82 and sunny so should get a lot of runs in then.
Saturday looks like some rain, hopefully not the whole day.
Sunday is cooler, but sunny again.

On the drive up...unfortunately not running tomorrow, and can't stay the whole day Sunday
Here's hoping

[arter]

Friday at Watkins Glen with GVC BMW, 4 hours of open track ( A-solo and instructors) and a sunny day. Made a new best time - 2:12.62 with my car.
( remember I have a supercharger so I am cheating). Doesn't help you turn , but straight lines are fun.

See video, 3rd lap is 2:13.2, 5th is 2:12.62.

[leo95se]

Originally Posted by arter

Friday at Watkins Glen with GVC BMW, 4 hours of open track ( A-solo and instructors) and a sunny day. Made a new best time - 2:12.62 with my car.
( remember I have a supercharger so I am cheating). Doesn't help you turn , but straight lines are fun.

See video, 3rd lap is 2:13.2, 5th is 2:12.62.

Damn. Nice times!

[arter]

video
With stock suspension you can just go right over the bumps.
And stock brakes doesn't bother yu if you don't brake

Working on increasing my speed at the apex of turns ( brake later, brake less...).

[Groundpilot]

That is a great time. Its hard to tell from that video, but it looks like you dont brake at t10, just lift? What tires, size? This track favors high HP cars and your supercharger pulls hard on the front and backstraightaways.

[klammer]

Wow! Awesome time, looking forward to a dry Sunday, I hope, and seeing everyone out there. What tires you on? My goal is sub 2:20 on this trip..,if the weather allows it

[Groundpilot]

[QUOTE=arter;14697243]video
With stock suspension you can just go right over the bumps.
And stock brakes doesn't bother yu if you don't brake

Working on increasing my speed at the apex of turns ( brake later, brake less...).


I thought you dont brake with stock brakes

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by arter

video
With stock suspension you can just go right over the bumps.
And stock brakes doesn't bother yu if you don't brake

Working on increasing my speed at the apex of turns ( brake later, brake less...).

Great times buddy

2:12s is the target I set for myself the next time I am down there. I will be studying your video