Track wheel/tire set up vibration issues. What to do??

aus · 06-15-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartanium

I had the same issue and it seems the shop is incapable of balancing correctly with TPMS installed, it is harder than you actually might imagine.

My solution is that I went to Gran Turismo east, they have an on-car balancing machine so they could physically see where or how the wheel/tire is behaving at speed. They took my PS2 off the wheel, rotated it so that the heaviest part of the tire is sitting at the opposite side of the TPMS and vibration is gone after balancing.

Before you go, make sure to call since they are very busy at times. Let me know if that helps.

That's pretty awesome.

JAJ · 06-15-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALKER

I put the RACs back on today. Car felt spot on.
Did not pull to the right at all.

If it were me, I'd put the rear RAC's on, and swap the Advans around on the front until I found the one (if it's just one) that's wonky.

But, before I did that, I'd take a careful look at the question about hub-centricity. For instance, say someone made an error and one of the rim pairs is made for BMW, but they're actually bored 74mm for the E39 chassis (instead of 72.5mm for the rest of the BMW product line). It will look right and mount easily, but even if the wheel is perfectly straight and the tire is round and precisely balanced it'll shake like crazy.

The way to check is to take a rear wheel off (so you can use the hand brake to stop the hub from turning) and try each Advan rim on that corner to make sure there's a no-gap fit between the rim and the hub extension that centers the wheel. Pop the center caps out so you can see what's going on. Rotate the rim on the hub and watch to make sure that there's no lateral or vertical movement and no gap as you push the rim from side to side and up and down.

Once you're convinced there's no problem with the hub, then go looking for a rim that's bent or a defective tire.

Another question - you may have answered already - are there spacers used with the Advans? Depending on how they're made, spacers can cause all kinds of problems like this. Some don't fit over the hub properly, some don't fit inside the wheel properly, and some disable the hub-centric alignment.

STALKER · 06-15-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartanium

I had the same issue and it seems the shop is incapable of balancing correctly with TPMS installed, it is harder than you actually might imagine.

My solution is that I went to Gran Turismo east, they have an on-car balancing machine so they could physically see where or how the wheel/tire is behaving at speed. They took my PS2 off the wheel, rotated it so that the heaviest part of the tire is sitting at the opposite side of the TPMS and vibration is gone after balancing.

Before you go, make sure to call since they are very busy at times. Let me know if that helps.

My car is a Canadian car, so we don't run TPMS.
I took to another shop. They got the vibration out, but the car was till pulling badly to the right. They flipped the fronts and then is started pulling the left, it was not as bad.
So it looks like I ended up again with a bad tire. They ordered a one new tire and it should be here tomorrow. Hopefully that does the trick.

I'm def not going to be buying Dunlop Star Specs again to replace these when they wear out.

STALKER · 06-15-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAJ

If it were me, I'd put the rear RAC's on, and swap the Advans around on the front until I found the one (if it's just one) that's wonky.

But, before I did that, I'd take a careful look at the question about hub-centricity. For instance, say someone made an error and one of the rim pairs is made for BMW, but they're actually bored 74mm for the E39 chassis (instead of 72.5mm for the rest of the BMW product line). It will look right and mount easily, but even if the wheel is perfectly straight and the tire is round and precisely balanced it'll shake like crazy.

The way to check is to take a rear wheel off (so you can use the hand brake to stop the hub from turning) and try each Advan rim on that corner to make sure there's a no-gap fit between the rim and the hub extension that centers the wheel. Pop the center caps out so you can see what's going on. Rotate the rim on the hub and watch to make sure that there's no lateral or vertical movement and no gap as you push the rim from side to side and up and down.

Once you're convinced there's no problem with the hub, then go looking for a rim that's bent or a defective tire.

Another question - you may have answered already - are there spacers used with the Advans? Depending on how they're made, spacers can cause all kinds of problems like this. Some don't fit over the hub properly, some don't fit inside the wheel properly, and some disable the hub-centric alignment.

No spacer, and we checked they fit the hub nice and tight.

Could vibration be caused by something else besides the wheels and tires? Suspension or brakes even?

Dartanium · 06-15-2010, 12:05 PM

I don't see it be suspension or brakes because your other wheels behave fine. So if wheel is your only variable of change, then those are the only culprit to your problem.

JAJ · 06-15-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALKER

No spacer, and we checked they fit the hub nice and tight.

Could vibration be caused by something else besides the wheels and tires? Suspension or brakes even?

I agree with Dartanium. If the RAC's work ok then everything else is probably fine. There is a small possibility that an alignment problem is causing the pull, but it should be consistent and not change when you move the tires around. And it should still do it with the RAC's.

Its either an Advan wheel or a Dunlop tire. Your original post said you'd already had a new pair of tires already, though, so yet another new one may not solve it.

What are the wheel specs? Widths and offsets?

aus · 06-15-2010, 01:09 PM

Where are these guys get the StarSpecs so easily from?

STALKER · 06-15-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

Where are these guys get the StarSpecs so easily from?

Every shop I went to can get them easily.
Lots of inventory out there apparently.

Jaypod · 06-16-2010, 05:03 PM

Any luck in getting this resolved?

STALKER · 06-16-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaypod

Any luck in getting this resolved?

Im going in tomorrow morning.
Really hoping it gets solved. One new tire arrived today.

Jaypod · 06-16-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALKER

Im going in tomorrow morning.
Really hoping it gets solved. One new tire arrived today.

Fingers crossed for you! Any chance they have anything else in stock that will work for your track day worst case? Still want to see pics of those wheels on your car!

STALKER · 06-16-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaypod

Fingers crossed for you! Any chance they have anything else in stock that will work for your track day worst case? Still want to see pics of those wheels on your car!

Nothing.
If it does not work, and it seems that its the tires, I might try to see if they can overnight me some AD08s. But Im hoping this works.

I'll get some pics at the track.

Jaypod · 06-16-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALKER

Nothing.
If it does not work, and it seems that its the tires, I might try to see if they can overnight me some AD08s. But Im hoping this works.

I'll get some pics at the track.

Good luck - hope it works out. Enjoy the track - looking forward to seeing some pics

STALKER · 06-16-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaypod

Good luck - hope it works out. Enjoy the track - looking forward to seeing some pics

Thanks bud.

JCtx · 06-16-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALKER

Could vibration be caused by something else besides the wheels and tires?

Excessive runout (a perfectly straight wheel would have zero). I think one of my stock wheels has a little more than it should. Not everybody has the precision equipment to measure it, but I'd try that. You'd also need to find out how much is acceptable. Good luck.

STALKER · 06-17-2010, 05:36 PM

Had the new tire installed today, then road force balanced all four tires/wheels. So far everything checks out. They had to remount both front tires to get them just right.
My front camber was a bit uneven too, so I had them re-adjusted.

aus · 06-17-2010, 06:20 PM

Good to here it's working out.
Did they remount the old tires or the new ones?

STALKER · 06-17-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

Good to here it's working out.
Did they remount the old tires or the new ones?

The two rears were OK, one of the front had to be replaced for the 2nd time. I won't be buying these again, next time I will be going AD08s.
Hopefully they perform well at the track this weekend.

aus · 06-17-2010, 09:22 PM

How did they figure out which front tire it was?

STALKER · 06-17-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

How did they figure out which front tire it was?

It was really pulling to the right, then they swapped right and left front tires, then the car started to pull to the left.

Jaypod · 06-18-2010, 06:36 AM

Glad to hear you got this sorted out! Have a great time at the track!

STALKER · 06-18-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaypod

Glad to hear you got this sorted out! Have a great time at the track!

Thanks.
Might go up today actually to watch the club races and to do my tech.

06-15-2010, 12:05 PM	#27
Dartanium Lieutenant 11 Rep 566 Posts Drives: 09 E90 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	I don't see it be suspension or brakes because your other wheels behave fine. So if wheel is your only variable of change, then those are the only culprit to your problem.
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06-15-2010, 01:09 PM	#29
aus Major General 890 Rep 9,031 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	Where are these guys get the StarSpecs so easily from? __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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06-16-2010, 05:03 PM	#31
Jaypod Brigadier General 125 Rep 4,971 Posts Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (7)	Any luck in getting this resolved?
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06-17-2010, 05:36 PM	#38
STALKER Brigadier General 169 Rep 3,831 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3, Golf R Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto, ON iTrader: (5)	Had the new tire installed today, then road force balanced all four tires/wheels. So far everything checks out. They had to remount both front tires to get them just right. My front camber was a bit uneven too, so I had them re-adjusted. __________________
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06-17-2010, 06:20 PM	#39
aus Major General 890 Rep 9,031 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	Good to here it's working out. Did they remount the old tires or the new ones? __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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06-17-2010, 09:22 PM	#41
aus Major General 890 Rep 9,031 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	How did they figure out which front tire it was? __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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06-18-2010, 06:36 AM	#43
Jaypod Brigadier General 125 Rep 4,971 Posts Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (7)	Glad to hear you got this sorted out! Have a great time at the track!
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