Sold Bad Tires from M3post Member

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by LateBraking

I'll respond to your above request here:

Given the information currently at hand, I personally believe that the shop (a professional place that does tire mounting for a living) damaged both tires while mounting them, then lied to you, and showed them to you after they damaged them. Just because something is improbable doesn't mean that it is impossible. They told you because they knew you'd find out once you picked up the wheels/tires, and decided to shift blame in order to get away with what they did. For the record, I find it hard to believe that he damaged 2 rear tires but not the 2 front ones, if he hit a pothole or something. If he hit a pothole, it would more likely have been the two tires on one side, or, if the pothole was big enough, all four tires.

I'm a fair and open minded guy. So let me ask you this (and to anyone else on the forum here who wants to blame the tire shop):

- who with professional experience in mounting tires can tell me and also show some sort of documentation (ie URLs, other posts on this forum, etc) that mounting tires onto the wheel can cause bubbles onto the sidewalls as on the tires that were sent to me from the Seller? Love to hear from any of the shops on the forum who does tires.

Cause what you are saying is what the Seller first said to me - its the tire shops fault. He even cited the white mark on one tire photo as mounting damage. Unfortunately that white mark was a grease stain (the grease used during the mounting) and has since washed away.



And to your theory, it also goes the other way: you are saying a tire shop puts bubbles on the two rear tires during mounting, at the exact same spot/placement on the tire, but the front two tires are perfectly fine - no issues during mounting.

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by LateBraking

They told you because they knew you'd find out once you picked up the wheels/tires, and decided to shift blame in order to get away with what they did.

Now i'm getting into semantics and word picking BUT -

The bubbles are on the inside of the tires. The Shop could have easily just put the tires on my car and I would have never ever known about the bubbles.

Again, I have a history with the shop and bring all my cars there for my wheels/tires mounting, summer set/winter set removal etc. I never had a problem with them before. I believe they are honest.

The shop told me about the bubbles cause they wanted me to know about it.

I been this route with the Seller (that was his first response to me). After much discussion with that shop, and other parties and looking it up on the internet it seems very remote that they did the bubbles during mounting. I can't find anything where people say its a common enough cause - let alone on 2 tires at the same time!

Think of it from my shoes. What are the probable odds here?
The tires were perfect and the shop puts two identical bubbles on these 2 tires or the tires had bubbles already on them when I received them.

[RON1X]

Warzilla,
I certainly can understand the frustration that you are having about all of this, but just wanted to add the little I can to the situation.

First, I can certainly speak to Nivedh's character, I've known him for a while and know that he would NEVER sell defective products. He is, in fact, in grad school at one of the most respected and prestigious schools in the US. I say that to shed some light on the fact that he isn't some misinformed individual; he certainly is smart enough to steer clear of committing fraud or any sort of misrepresentation.

To be frank, I feel the situation is a bit odd to begin with. Despite his iTrader feedback/rating being 79 (without any negative feedback), you were still concerned with the transaction and had a Bill of Sale drafted that, substantively, only states an acknowledgment of the sale and that the wheels are being sold "as is." Although the bill of sale was perhaps an extra protection if a seller were to take the money and run, its use for a forum-to-forum member sale seems odd to begin with, esepcially given his rather high positive feedback. (however, I can understand the hesitancy with any online sale).

The main issue that I see, which has been pointed out, is the fact that the tire shop would still mount the tires if they were defective. It must be stated that a TIRE SHOP would certainly have an interest in wanting you to buy THEIR tires instead of the minimal shop fee that it cost you to install them. To me, that certainly adds a relevant inquiry to the entire transaction.

Upon receiving the tires, did you look them over? I think any reasonable person would have certainly looked over the tires upon receiving them, especially given your concern with the transaction to begin with.

Also, if you were concerned with the transaction, why would you not REQUIRE insurance on the fedex shipment? That really seems troubling given how things have happened.

The demand for $300 is also strange. How do you come up with that number?

I couldn't say it enough, I would be frustrated too but the facts seem a bit odd to begin with. With all of this, again, I can only say that Nivedh would not send you a defective product. There have been three SEPERATE parties that touched those wheels AFTER they left Nivedh's hands: Fedex, yourself, and the tire shop. There is certainly room for negligent care of those tires by anyone in that chain.

I really hope you both are able to figure out an amicable solution to the situation and I truly only share my opinions based on Nivedh because I know him personally and can attest to his honest character (and I think 79 other buyers can too).

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

This.

Also, he drives an M3 but doesn't have $300? This is why this country is in deep sh!t.

So true!

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by LateBraking

Do I have documentation or proof that the tire shop damaged your tire? No. Do I have any documentation or proof that tire shops have damaged tires while mounting them before? No, but I've witnessed some incredibly sloppy and stupid work by tire shops in the past (I won't name names), even fell victim to some poor work myself, though unrelated to bubbles. I don't think that being a "professional shop" makes them immune to failure, and like I said, just because something is improbable doesn't make it impossible.

Totally understand where you are coming from. And believe me, if I felt that the shop did it, I would bother them on it. But you just said what I've looked into, its pretty much nil that tires get bubbles during the mounting process. I couldn't find anyone who say that happens - and I've asked around. So you are blaming a shop for doing it 2x at one setting.

You still haven't responded to my question: If the shop called you before the tires were mounted to tell you about the bubbles as you claim, then why on Earth did you have them mount them? Why didn't you tell them to stop, so you could lay blame on the seller by showing him that the tires had bubbles prior to mounting? Why even leave the opportunity to blame the tire shop there? How can you now prove that you didn't use the tires for a few hours, and placed the bubbles there yourself? There's no way to prove that the buyer isn't at fault as much as there is no way to prove that the seller is at fault, especially given that you had the tires mounted prior to blaming the seller.

Much confusion on this point, brought up by the Seller because of a badly written email I sent to him. After back and forth talking he basically brought that accusation to me recently - that I basically had the tires on my car, drove the car with the tires and caused the bubbles on them. This was after he first blamed the tire shop of course.

What I wrote back to him (but was badly written on my part) was that the tires were mounted on the wheels, and the shop called me to looked at them because they noticed the bubbles on the tires at that point. I took the pictures of the tires/bubbles at that moment with my phone and contacted the seller immediately that day. I also sent him the photos. He blamed the tire shop immediately for the cause

I told the tire shop to put the tires/wheels on my car because my old tires were worn to shreds and I had no choice at the moment but between putting my old tires on or keeping the current tires that were mounted on the wheels from the Seller.

But my point to him about the Shop as witness, which seems to have stirred the Seller and many here, was they were going to witnesses to say that no, the bubbles were on the tires, mounted on the wheel BEFORE I drove the tires on my car. Again, this was in response to his accusation that I drove and caused the bubbles myself.

To follow up on the keeping the shop responsible for the bubble damage, I followed up with another tire shop, talked to individuals who know about tires, and looked all on the web. All came back with the same result: very much impossible that those bubbles came from wheel mounting. And to happen twice? Just increase the odds that was not the case.

Say whatever you want, but this time I truly will refrain from responding to any comment. I swear by it. As I stated previously, I wish both you and the seller the best given all the uncertainties surrounding this unfortunate event.

Edit Note: I am no way related to the seller. I haven't even seen his forum name before. However, I HAVE been scammed by two buyers on M3post.com in the past, and therefore the factual inconsistencies simply caught my attention. I'm out of this thread, the admins could even ban me from this specific thread to keep me from posting. Wouldn't make a difference to me.

I don't mind your posts. You're being direct and honest. I'm doing my best to answer any issues people have with my side of the issue. But again, I'm just trying to get a resolution here. I'm not here to scam or bug anyone. I've been working with the Seller for almost 2 months, trying to follow his suggestions but we'll now at the point where I want to move on, and just want him to be the honest, solid guy everyone who know him on the forums says he is and help me find a resolution to this.

Any suggestion on how to get to that resolution would be greatly helpful.

[berrydingle]

Originally Posted by IlChengis

Hi Warren.
I am very sorry that the transaction has not been as smooth as expected thus far. I know Nivedh personally and I can assure you he's the nicest and pickiest fellow E9x enthusiast I have ever known. He is also brutally honest.

Nivedh is the "go-to" guy for us locals when we need a good deal on a specific part and he does an impressive amount of transactions to be a private. This is his passion and he thoroughly enjoys trying new components/upgrades and selling the ones he doesn't need, it is truly his main hobby.

What saddens me about this whole situation is that there doesn't seem to be an apparently simple solution.

These are the hard facts I am working with:

• 4 Tires paid for
• 4 Tires shipped
• 4 Tires received as described (prior to mounting)
• Rear tires displayed bubbles upon install
• Bill of sale used

Knowing Nivedh's ethics I would like to give you (Warren) and your shop the benefit of the doubt and look into possible damage during shipping. YES, it's very possible to damage the wall of a tire if it's pinched by a pallet or a poorly parked forklift during overnight storage in the warehouse. Since the tires have no pressure (not mounted), you can see how that would very easily cause sidewall damage (a theory which would be supported by the marks next to the bubbles as seen in your pics).

The problem - Warren - is that it appears you're starting to contradict yourself. How many days have passed by from the time you received the tires to the time you got them mounted? Did you notice any damage upon delivery? If you dismount the tires now, can you spot anything unusual on the surface where the bubbles appear while mounted? Are you seriously stating that you "can get the shop to say under oath that the bubbles were there prior to mounting" even though I understand you stated that the tires looked fine before being mounted (no bubbles)?

YES, I understand that bubbles can appear AFTER you mount them and inflate them, but I am looking at your apparent approach here... tires looked fine but you "can get" the shop to confirm that the bubbles were there before mounting? Based on this attitude alone I would be discouraged to give you and the shop the benefit of the doubt, wouldn't you say?

Warren, I don't know you personally. If I knew you instead of Nivedh (and assuming you and your shop weren't trying to be smart), I would probably have more compassion for your side of the story.

There seem to be way too many variables in play here, so a peaceful solution can be difficult, but I trust you will come to a mutual agreement and remain in good terms.

-Walter

X2. Could not have said any better.

Nivedh is a great/honest seller.

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by RON1X

Warzilla,
I certainly can understand the frustration that you are having about all of this, but just wanted to add the little I can to the situation.

First, I can certainly speak to Nivedh's character, I've known him for a while and know that he would NEVER sell defective products. He is, in fact, in grad school at one of the most respected and prestigious schools in the US. I say that to shed some light on the fact that he isn't some misinformed individual; he certainly is smart enough to steer clear of committing fraud or any sort of misrepresentation.

Yes, As I said repeatly (and probably for the last time =), he seems to be a nice person and has been communicative and responsive with me on this. He just hasn't taken responsibility for the tires he sold me for $1200.00

To be frank, I feel the situation is a bit odd to begin with. Despite his iTrader feedback/rating being 79 (without any negative feedback), you were still concerned with the transaction and had a Bill of Sale drafted that, substantively, only states an acknowledgment of the sale and that the wheels are being sold "as is." Although the bill of sale was perhaps an extra protection if a seller were to take the money and run, its use for a forum-to-forum member sale seems odd to begin with, esepcially given his rather high positive feedback. (however, I can understand the hesitancy with any online sale).

Look at my etrader rating. I never brought anything from a member here before. I usually tend not to buy car items from people I do not know. So I was being extra paranoid I guess.

The main issue that I see, which has been pointed out, is the fact that the tire shop would still mount the tires if they were defective. It must be stated that a TIRE SHOP would certainly have an interest in wanting you to buy THEIR tires instead of the minimal shop fee that it cost you to install them. To me, that certainly adds a relevant inquiry to the entire transaction.

Two replies here: Its all seems to be a common perception that the bubbles you see in the picture would be visible on an un-mounted tire, not inflated. Bubbles, from what I read and heard can not always be seen unless mounted and more importantly inflated with air. When I got the tires delivered, they seem fine, but to be honest, I did not go over them tooth and nail and they were not on wheels and inflated.

2nd, again abut the shop's integrity. I feel weird, always defending them to you guys, but I've been going to them for years and never had a issue. On top of that, I have brought tires from Tire Rack and shipped it to them to mount and put on my car and they never ever had an issue with that as well. So again, while its easy to blame the 'shop', let it be known I've always had a good relationship with them and they were always honest with me. Thats why I go to them instead of the stealerships for my tires stuff.

Also, if you were concerned with the transaction, why would you not REQUIRE insurance on the fedex shipment? That really seems troubling given how things have happened.

I'm a idiot. Probably should have done so.

The demand for $300 is also strange. How do you come up with that number?

Was in my original post about the number. I'm planning on getting the Hankook's cause they are only $900.00 for a full set and I already paid $1200.00 for a set of 4 tires from the seller. The back two are useless. The front tires are ok, and I can sell them from maybe $300.00. The Seller originally offered me $43.00 and a pulley he valued to me at $250.00. Since I don't want a pulley, I came up with the $300.00 price, in cash.

I couldn't say it enough, I would be frustrated too but the facts seem a bit odd to begin with. With all of this, again, I can only say that Nivedh would not send you a defective product. There have been three SEPERATE parties that touched those wheels AFTER they left Nivedh's hands: Fedex, yourself, and the tire shop. There is certainly room for negligent care of those tires by anyone in that chain.

I really hope you both are able to figure out an amicable solution to the situation and I truly only share my opinions based on Nivedh because I know him personally and can attest to his honest character (and I think 79 other buyers can too).

listen. The bottom line, he's the Seller, I'm the buyer. I paid $1200.00 for damaged goods. All I want to do is find a resolution and get it over with. As I said, the seller said initially that he would send me back some money if I had to get new tires. So I just want to stick with that promise and figure out a agreement between us. I don't want a pulley - don't even know what to do with it =)

[IlChengis]

Originally Posted by warzilla

I'm a idiot. Probably should have done so.

I have an idea. This is *not* a solution, but it might help. UPS normally includes $100 insurance on any uninsured shipment. Why don't you check and see if FedEx does something similar? It's not a full refund, it's not $900, it's not $300. But it's something.

-Walter

[Grail05]

here's what i dont get... so the shop mounted the tires ruined the tires? BY mounting? how the fawk can you create bubble by mounting tires?

[UA]

For the record I do not know either of the involved persons. I have read the whole thread thus far.

Whoever damaged the tires doesn't matter at this point. It could have been owner before Nivedh, nivedh himself, warzilla, shipping company or tire shop. Regardless of the damage I think that warzilla is being very reasonable in his request for a 25% refund of the price he paid. Most people in his position would request a full refund or at least enough to cover the damaged goods. In this case, 50% for two tires. It seems that for a miniscule amount of $300 for Nivedh not to resolve this peacefully would be unwise since it hurts his reputation. It would appear that his reputation is important since he sells many items on this and possibly other forums. Denying the refund because you are in school and can't afford $300, thus offering parts for a refund, is very disreputable considering the vehicle he drives. If you are selling items for $1200 then you should be prepared for mishaps that may need to be covered and he doesn't even have $300 to his name? Doesn't seem like an honest approach to conducting business. I say refund the $300 and be done with the hassle and possibly other recourse that buyer may seek.

[RON1X]

Originally Posted by UA

For the record I do not know either of the involved persons. I have read the whole thread thus far.

Whoever damaged the tires doesn't matter at this point. It could have been owner before Nivedh, nivedh himself, warzilla, shipping company or tire shop. Regardless of the damage I think that warzilla is being very reasonable in his request for a 25% refund of the price he paid. Most people in his position would request a full refund or at least enough to cover the damaged goods. In this case, 50% for two tires. It seems that for a miniscule amount of $300 for Nivedh not to resolve this peacefully would be unwise since it hurts his reputation. It would appear that his reputation is important since he sells many items on this and possibly other forums. Denying the refund because you are in school and can't afford $300, thus offering parts for a refund, is very disreputable considering the vehicle he drives. If you are selling items for $1200 then you should be prepared for mishaps that may need to be covered and he doesn't even have $300 to his name? Doesn't seem like an honest approach to conducting business. I say refund the $300 and be done with the hassle and possibly other recourse that buyer may seek.

This is the issue though: if the goods were NOT damaged when the seller shipped them, they are under absolutely no obligation to refund money for the items.

The issue with the entire transaction is WHEN the goods were damaged, which is what has created the problem.

Its hard to assume, especially with Nivedh's track record with 79 positive sales, that he would ship defective goods (which is why I and others have commented to his honest character, which Warzilla seems to agree).

With that, I think everyone is uneasy how this has turned out for both parties, I doubt either wanted to be confronted with this kind of result!

I honestly feel bad for everyone involved, but again, it all depends on when the tires became defective...

[UA]

^ Right. But there is absolutely no way of finding out when the tires were actually damaged. Therefore, it also wouldn't be ethical to assume that buyer damaged the wheels just because seller has a positive sale record. Therefore I think the right and most effective solution is to offer buyer a refund, this way both parties share the loss.

[force4rmr]

This is an interesting dilemma and it sounds like two honest and reputable guys are stuck in a quandry. The unbiased reality though is simple and applies to any transaction, imo, whether private or not. It's the buyer's responsibility to inspect the product when it arrives, plain and simple. Once the tires were mounted, they are no longer the vendors responsibility to accept returns because it is impossible to prove how the damage happened. If the vendor feels he should show some good faith by the way of a partial refund, that's his choice.

[persian54]

this is pretty much fraud and immoral... but you could ship them, buy insurance, then claim that they got damaged during that shipment and get $1k or so back...

I mean, I'm not promoting it, I'm not for fraud, but it is an idea.

Just saying...

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by RON1X

This is the issue though: if the goods were NOT damaged when the seller shipped them, they are under absolutely no obligation to refund money for the items.

The issue with the entire transaction is WHEN the goods were damaged, which is what has created the problem.

Its hard to assume, especially with Nivedh's track record with 79 positive sales, that he would ship defective goods (which is why I and others have commented to his honest character, which Warzilla seems to agree).

I would address your post in a couple of ways:

- first, if you didn't know the Seller, you're wouldn't have the position you currently have (that the Seller is too honest to sell bad tires). Right? So if you didn't personally know the Seller, would you still feel that the Seller has no % responsibility in this matter based on what you have read? Be honest - probably not, right?

- So you do know the seller. He has a track record of 79 sales with positive ratings. No negatives. (I personally don't know how many of them were tires). So you are saying based on that record, he couldn't have made a mistake in selling bad tires to me? Your 100% believe that - cause in my mind, no one bats 1000% as they say in the majors. There is always going to be 1 case or a some that happens to even the best of sellers and best of people.

- If you are keyed on the timeline of when the tires were damaged, I will go by an assumption here that you are either blaming the shipping company or the tire shop that did the mounting. Lets address both of them.

a. Shipping company. The Seller ships the tires. If they are damaged via the shipping process, wouldn't it be because he didn't package it properly - hence some blame goes his way? Blame for me that I didn't do the insurance. But what is the reality of that happening, right? How can you get 2 bubbles on tires during shipping (anyone who had that happen to them, please jump in)

b. Tire Shop. So they did it by mounting the tires on my wheels. Well as I sort of addressed in the other posts who think the same way - show me. Cause I did my research and no one knowledgeable about tires has said that bubbles can be caused by the mounting process (if using the proper gear, which my shop has). And note, this was done on both back tires. So in your mind, not only did the tire shop cause a bubble on the tire by the mounting process but did it twice? I'm telling you, it does not happen (but I'm happy for someone to say and prove it outerwise. Again, I'm not God here, and if you're a professional tire shop that says you did it, jump in)

The basic issue with this is that its a buyer/seller issue. No matter what, a Seller in this case has some % of responsibility to the buyer when an issue like this happens. I'm not here to hurt him or harm him. I just want a happy resolution so we both can get on our way. But its not offering a BMW pulley. Its not offering $100.00. I'm hoping that the Seller can work with me here and come to a solution, cause I'm still open to work something out.

The question is he or is he just totally running away from this?

[IlChengis]

Originally Posted by persian54

this is pretty much fraud and immoral... but you could ship them, buy insurance, then claim that they got damaged during that shipment and get $1k or so back...

I mean, I'm not promoting it, I'm not for fraud, but it is an idea.

Just saying...

I hear you on that Buddy, insurance companies are a bunch of thieves... but still, I think it might be better to try and see if Michelin can honour the warranty. Time for some fineprint reading.

-Walter

[UA]

Originally Posted by force4rmr

This is an interesting dilemma and it sounds like two honest and reputable guys are stuck in a quandry. The unbiased reality though is simple and applies to any transaction, imo, whether private or not. It's the sellers responsibility to inspect the product when it arrives, plain and simple. Once the tires were mounted, they are no longer the vendors responsibility to accept returns because it is impossible to prove how the damage happened. If the vendor feels he should show some good faith by the way of a partial refund, that's his choice.

I believe he means "buyers".

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by IlChengis

I hear you on that Buddy, insurance companies are a bunch of thieves... but still, I think it might be better to try and see if Michelin can honour the warranty. Time for some fineprint reading.

-Walter

Been there, done that. The Seller kept on pushing that on me, after he blamed the tire shop for the bubbles. I went to 2 different authorized Michelin Dealers, both looked at the tires and DOT dates. Both said "no".

The warranty does not cover bubbles that look like they were caused by hitting a pothole or such. Also there is an initial warranty or something like that, but thats for the 1st year. These tires were almost 2 years old by the time I got them.

I read the actual warranty as well. No coverage for bubbles (or what they would call self causing damage to the tires). I kept on telling this to the Seller but he keeps on mentioning the Warranty back to me. And how Michelin will give me new tires.

Again. I went to 2 authorized Michelin dealers in my area, who looked at the tires. They said "NO WARRANTY" coverage.

[elm3]

Hey Warzilla, just wanted to say how sorry I am for what you are going through. I am a good friend of Nivedh, he worked on my car, pretty much would not trust anybody, but him with my cars and I can vouch for him that he would not sell anybody something that was damaged as new. He has an impecable sellers reputation, that I doubt very seriously that he would mess up, by making some money from a member in this forum. I do hope that everything can be worked out in the interest to both of you. I probably was not any help to you on this matter, but wanted to really vouch for Nivedh.

[force4rmr]

Originally Posted by UA

I believe he means "buyers".

You're right, thanks!.... now edited.

[MonteB]

I’m just throwing my 2 cents in here on NiVeDh. I have personally known him for almost 3 years and have bought many items from him with No Problems. He is a very generous guy and he would never send out an item that was less than 100% working. Whenever there is someone with a problem here in the ATL he is the First one to lend a hand.

I personally have seen tires bubble like that during installation due to over pressure.

[RON1X]

Answering & Quoting Warzilla (my answers in bold):
I would address your post in a couple of ways:

- first, if you didn't know the Seller, you're wouldn't have the position you currently have (that the Seller is too honest to sell bad tires). Right? So if you didn't personally know the Seller, would you still feel that the Seller has no % responsibility in this matter based on what you have read? Be honest - probably not, right?

Legally speaking, the buyer assumes the risk after the goods have left their control

- So you do know the seller. He has a track record of 79 sales with positive ratings. No negatives. (I personally don't know how many of them were tires). So you are saying based on that record, he couldn't have made a mistake in selling bad tires to me? Your 100% believe that - cause in my mind, no one bats 1000% as they say in the majors. There is always going to be 1 case or a some that happens to even the best of sellers and best of people.

No, I didn't say could not have, I just spoke to his honest character and demonstrated that it would be reasonable, based on his record, that he wouldn't have shipped had he KNOWN of any defects



- If you are keyed on the timeline of when the tires were damaged, I will go by an assumption here that you are either blaming the shipping company or the tire shop that did the mounting. Lets address both of them.

a. Shipping company. The Seller ships the tires. If they are damaged via the shipping process, wouldn't it be because he didn't package it properly - hence some blame goes his way? Blame for me that I didn't do the insurance. But what is the reality of that happening, right? How can you get 2 bubbles on tires during shipping (anyone who had that happen to them, please jump in)

No, as stated, that is the purpose of insurance and why the BUYER has the option to purchase such insurance in case the shipping company does damage the goods during shipment. I am no expert on tires, but it is reasonable to believe that damage could occur; what are the odds? your guess is as good as mine

b. Tire Shop. So they did it by mounting the tires on my wheels. Well as I sort of addressed in the other posts who think the same way - show me. Cause I did my research and no one knowledgeable about tires has said that bubbles can be caused by the mounting process (if using the proper gear, which my shop has). And note, this was done on both back tires. So in your mind, not only did the tire shop cause a bubble on the tire by the mounting process but did it twice? I'm telling you, it does not happen (but I'm happy for someone to say and prove it outerwise. Again, I'm not God here, and if you're a professional tire shop that says you did it, jump in)

The basic issue with this is that its a buyer/seller issue. No matter what, a Seller in this case has some % of responsibility to the buyer when an issue like this happens.

As said again, which you have admitted as a fault of your own, you did not purchase any insurance for shipping. Legally speaking he is not under any obligation to refund you. The % of responsibility on the seller's part ends upon relinquishing control to the shipper, unless parties contract otherwise

I'm not here to hurt him or harm him. I just want a happy resolution so we both can get on our way. But its not offering a BMW pulley. Its not offering $100.00. I'm hoping that the Seller can work with me here and come to a solution, cause I'm still open to work something out.

Trust me, I understand your frustration and I hope that you can work out something!

Originally Posted by persian54

this is pretty much fraud and immoral... but you could ship them, buy insurance, then claim that they got damaged during that shipment and get $1k or so back...

I mean, I'm not promoting it, I'm not for fraud, but it is an idea.

Just saying...

Fraud requires knowledge (actual knowledge or constructive knowledge, i.e. should have known), and failing to disclose such fact with the intent to deceive. It seems these defects could not have been known upon looking at them. It would only be immoral if he was actually trying to screw the buyer over... which is not the case