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      10-03-2012, 06:08 PM   #23
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the first thing i noticed in the video is that you are carrying much more speed through corners in the first(left) video, which would have nothing to do with your power. You are also getting on the gas sooner in the first one. There's your problem.
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      10-03-2012, 06:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by timsev View Post
the first thing i noticed in the video is that you are carrying much more speed through corners in the first(left) video, which would have nothing to do with your power. You are also getting on the gas sooner in the first one. There's your problem.
Right and I mentioned that. That's obvious. But on the last front stretch the supercharger should be hitting a much higher speed by the end than without.
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      10-03-2012, 06:25 PM   #25
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a little bit of heat soak, worn out tires, and your nerves holding you back from the crashed car. All combined will shave off a few seconds. It's hard to compare trap speeds unless you start from a stop each time. I think most of it has to do with tires, both the wear levels and tread compound.
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      10-03-2012, 06:25 PM   #26
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also, not meaning to offend you in any way, but what level of driver are you?
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      10-03-2012, 06:37 PM   #27
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also, not meaning to offend you in any way, but what level of driver are you?
I'm an intermediate. My times are very consistent on a given day aside from hitting traffic. My corner speeds were higher on the left video because I was running pilot sport cups as opposed to pilot super sports on the right.

But regardless of exit speed, you can clearly see the RPMs climbing faster and at a more linear rate than with the supercharger.
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      10-03-2012, 06:40 PM   #28
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have you thrown it on a dyno? Or get it hot and line it up with someone in a stock M3?

Lol, I notice you have a for sale ad now for the kit. Haha
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      10-03-2012, 06:48 PM   #29
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have you thrown it on a dyno? Or get it hot and line it up with someone in a stock M3?

Lol, I notice you have a for sale ad now for the kit. Haha
The car is plenty fast on the street. I know the power is there. It's just not significant at the track after engine temps hit 270.
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      10-03-2012, 07:46 PM   #30
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Also have a ESS 535 and track it alot.
Compared to last year without the S/C, I am running about
10-15 mph faster at the end of straights
( Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, Lightning, & VIR).

I got the M24 Oiler cooler, which keeps my oil temperatures cooler with the S/C than I was last year without either ( last year often hit 270F and this year never over 250F).

Now I am in the great Northeast so I am not seeing 100F days when I am running. That might be the big difference between us.

I do agree that the S/C will drive more maintenance ( spark plugs and wear) as I already have 30 tracks days on my 2011. Maybe I should have leased it
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      10-03-2012, 08:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by arter View Post
Also have a ESS 535 and track it alot.
Compared to last year without the S/C, I am running about
10-15 mph faster at the end of straights
( Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, Lightning, & VIR).

I got the M24 Oiler cooler, which keeps my oil temperatures cooler with the S/C than I was last year without either ( last year often hit 270F and this year never over 250F).

Now I am in the great Northeast so I am not seeing 100F days when I am running. That might be the big difference between us.

I do agree that the S/C will drive more maintenance ( spark plugs and wear) as I already have 30 tracks days on my 2011. Maybe I should have leased it
Thanks for that info. I've been looking at the M24 cooler. Might be worth the investment.
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      01-11-2022, 08:18 PM   #32
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A decade old thread but still good.
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      01-12-2022, 08:58 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFerry View Post

A decade old thread but still good.
Thx for the bump on this doc! Now that we have learned, this is the perfect kit to run with water/meth. No hot metal heat exchanger to block the ice cold meth injected post blower (as is the case with the intercooled kits). If I did a supercharger again, this is the route I'd take, but of course would need a long dyno tune session with the base ess650 tune, white injectors and a 8-9psi pulley. With enough meth, it would never heat soak even on a 100 degree track day.

I run a massive amount of meth on another car and my data logger sees below-ambient intake temps no matter what the conditions even on sustained wot pulls.
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      01-12-2022, 11:34 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Thx for the bump on this doc! Now that we have learned, this is the perfect kit to run with water/meth. No hot metal heat exchanger to block the ice cold meth injected post blower (as is the case with the intercooled kits). If I did a supercharger again, this is the route I'd take, but of course would need a long dyno tune session with the base ess650 tune, white injectors and a 8-9psi pulley. With enough meth, it would never heat soak even on a 100 degree track day.

I run a massive amount of meth on another car and my data logger sees below-ambient intake temps no matter what the conditions even on sustained wot pulls.
As always a great post from you with good information based on experience. For those running boost on circuits in the U.K. (and elsewhere I guess) there's a company called Aquamist that makes water injection and meth injection plug and play kits which are adaptable to most engines. EU Rally teams run their stuff too.
.
https://www.aquamist-direct.com/aquamist-all/
.
https://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-...ime-4-5-weeks/
.
What's your recommended meth solution? I am running the Harrop and often thought about meth.
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      01-12-2022, 11:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Thx for the bump on this doc! Now that we have learned, this is the perfect kit to run with water/meth. No hot metal heat exchanger to block the ice cold meth injected post blower (as is the case with the intercooled kits). If I did a supercharger again, this is the route I'd take, but of course would need a long dyno tune session with the base ess650 tune, white injectors and a 8-9psi pulley. With enough meth, it would never heat soak even on a 100 degree track day.

I run a massive amount of meth on another car and my data logger sees below-ambient intake temps no matter what the conditions even on sustained wot pulls.
As always a great post from you with good information based on experience. For those running boost on circuits in the U.K. (and elsewhere I guess) there's a company called Aquamist that makes water injection and meth injection plug and play kits which are adaptable to most engines. EU Rally teams run their stuff too.
.
https://www.aquamist-direct.com/aquamist-all/
.
https://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-...ime-4-5-weeks/
.
What's your recommended meth solution? I am running the Harrop and often thought about meth.
Hey doc, yours would be difficult similar to the intercooled centrifugals given the manifold-based heat exchangers. You would have to tap the velocity stacks. There are (or used to be) pre-tapped velocity stacks at an astronomical price.

Also, the aquamist controller use an injector pulse- width flow reference and it is very difficult for many to set up and operate effectively. It can be more precise but at significant hassle and complexity. The kit I have seen with very high effectiveness and reliability is a custom modified off the shelf Snow Performance stage 2 kit. The custom modifications include full steel braided lines and aircraft fittings. The Snow brain uses a boost-reference and that seems to be very easy to use and operate very reliably.

For a track car I would avoid a blower and all the added weight and do cams, catless exhaust and a tune on pump gas. 420 wheel hp all the time would be amazing with some weight savings.
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      01-12-2022, 12:54 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Hey doc, yours would be difficult similar to the intercooled centrifugals given the manifold-based heat exchangers. You would have to tap the velocity stacks. There are (or used to be) pre-tapped velocity stacks at an astronomical price.

Also, the aquamist controller use an injector pulse - width flow reference and it is very difficult for many to set up and operate effectively. It can be more precise but at significant hassle and complexity. The kit I have seen with very high effectiveness and reliability is a custom modified off the shelf Snow Performance stage 2 kit. The custom modifications include full steel braided lines and aircraft fittings. The Snow brain uses a boost-reference and that seems to be very easy to use and operate very reliably.

For a track car I would avoid a blower and all the added weight and do cams, catless exhaust and a tune on pump gas. 420 wheel hp all the time would be amazing with some weight savings.
Thanks for your technical savvy, advice and info. I had suspected meth with the Harrop SC kit could be tricky, but if ever pull the trigger I will most likely go the Snow Performance Stage II kit route you recommended - rather than Aquamist.

I seem to recall your running a Snow Performance kit at Air-Strip events that you ran early on with your E92 M3. Your philosophy of NA, + Cams, + Catless + Tune is the way SYT_Shadow went - and his car is a real animal - as shown in his high quality videos whilst giving the 911s fits.. Though I think he added a 4.4L stroker kit too.

There are some threads regarding the Schirmer N'Ring cars where rumors exist of them running a Harrop equipped car at the N'Ring. However, if that was done by Schirmer that car probably had mega augmented water cooling and intercooling. Thanks again for the advice.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=harrop
.
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      01-12-2022, 07:49 PM   #37
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I agree that 292 cams and headers would go a long way to give the E9X some much needed power on the track.

The acceleration curves of a 460whp stroker and a 625 kit are identical on the first hot lap, then the 625 kit degrades very quickly. The stroker will continue without overheating for a whole session, every time.

Without going to a stroker, which in practical terms means a rebuild every two years, the 292 cam and a good tune (harder to get than one might think...) is probably enough.
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      01-13-2022, 08:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I agree that 292 cams and headers would go a long way to give the E9X some much needed power on the track.

The acceleration curves of a 460whp stroker and a 625 kit are identical on the first hot lap, then the 625 kit degrades very quickly. The stroker will continue without overheating for a whole session, every time.

Without going to a stroker, which in practical terms means a rebuild every two years, the 292 cam and a good tune (harder to get than one might think...) is probably enough.
Thanks for this post. It's what I feared and probably explains why I don't see a lot of posts regarding seriously tracked prepared supercharged E9X M3s (Schirmer N'Ring rumors not withstanding). And even if there are a few I agree that heat soak could cause timing to be pulled after a few hard 10/10ths laps. This possibly explains why BMW went with a factory style "stroker kit" in the simply awesome and incredibly rare E92 M3 GTS.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-m3-gts-drive/
.
https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/spec...92-M3-GTS.html
.
A car which in its day the Car Mags raved over. I see nowadays various companies are making stroker kits such as Lang Racing (just a few miles southeast of Huntington Beach, CA) as well as VAC.
.
https://store.langracing.com/83mm-st...90-e92-e93-m3/
.
And a few threads including yours on the forums
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1414377
.
Thanks for all your informative DIYs and advice.
.
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      01-13-2022, 08:56 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFerry View Post
Thanks for this post. It's what I feared and probably explains why I don't see a lot of posts regarding seriously tracked prepared supercharged E9X M3s (Schirmer N'Ring rumors not withstanding). And even if there are a few I agree that heat sink could cause timing to be pulled due to heat soak after a few hard 10/10ths laps. This possibly explains why BMW went with a factory style "stroker kit" in the simply awesome and incredibly rare E92 M3 GTS.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-m3-gts-drive/
.
A car which in its day the Car Mags raved over. I see nowadays various companies are making stroker kits such as Lang Racing (just a few miles southeast of Huntington Beach, CA) as well as VAC.
.
https://store.langracing.com/83mm-st...90-e92-e93-m3/
.
And a few threads including yours on the forums
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1414377
.
Thanks for all your informative DIYs and advice.
.
Oh yes the beautiful E9X GTS... what an incredible car. I would have sold a kidney to buy one had it come to the US! I tried to compensate by getting two M4 GTS, but it is not the same.

I have a crank for a 4.4-4.6L S65 in my basement, one day I may build a second stroker and leave it at 4.4L instead of also boring it out to 4.6L.

The stroker experience is really incredible, but extremely expensive due to reliability concerns. The stroker has now been swapped to my weekend E92 and the E90 will soldier on as a full street car with a regular 4.0 for now.
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      01-13-2022, 09:05 AM   #40
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Oh yes the beautiful E9X GTS... what an incredible car. I would have sold a kidney to buy one had it come to the US!
.

.
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      01-13-2022, 02:11 PM   #41
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Still feel like there isn't a solid amount of info on the 292 cams to justify the expense. My tuner, whom I consider to be one the best (Randy @ Epic) said not to expect huge gains from cams.. 10-15hp. My car makes 395/280 on 91 octane on a Dynojet. Feels plenty fast at 3250lbs with 4.10 gears. 420whp would be incredible.

Last edited by berns; 01-13-2022 at 02:47 PM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berns View Post
Still feel like there isn't a solid amount of info on the 292 cams to justify the expense. My tuner, whom I consider to be one the best (Randy @ Epic) said not to expect huge gains from cams.. 10-15hp. My car makes 395/280 on 91 octane on a Dynojet. Feels plenty fast at 3250lbs with 4.10 gears. 420whp would be incredible.
There is basically no info on 292 cams on the 4.0 because no one has tuned for it. It is clear it made plenty of power on my strokers and there's no reason to think it wouldn't on a 4.0.

Tuners on this platform are busy printing money and copying and pasting files. They are not doing 'development'. The most popular tuner on this forum is not a tuner in the first place, as even a monkey can copy and paste random pieces of code around and create crappy tunes that knock all over the place.
Besides, the day one tuner does the work many others will simply steal it.

Since the mssflashers65 project came into existence we no longer have to wonder blindly whether tuner X or Y is good. We can clearly read and see how certain tuners disable knock adaptations, call for insane timing etc. We no longer have to wonder about these things.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 01-14-2022 at 08:19 AM..
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      01-13-2022, 04:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
There is basically no info on 292 cams on the 4.0 because no one has tuned for it. It is clear it made plenty of power on my strokers and there's no reason to think it wouldn't on a 4.0.

Tuners on this platform are busy printing money and copying and pasting files. They are not doing 'development'. The most popular tuner on this forum is not a tuner in the first place, as a monkey can copy and paste random pieces of code around and create crappy tunes.
Besides, the day one tuner does the work many others will simply steal it.

Since the mssflashers65 project came into existence we no longer have to wonder blindly whether tuner X or Y is good. We can clearly read and see how certain tuners disable knock adaptations, call for insane timing etc. We no longer have to wonder about these things.
Hear you loud and clear and of course the technical observation is that increasing flow will add power. Ditto on the tuners.. I come from years of turbo car ownership, especially the n54... so I know all about that.

I think I'll eventually be ready to take the jump and give the cams a try, but will probably run this season as is and take a stab at it next year.
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