BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-06-2012, 02:24 PM   #331
mkPOTO
Mr. Nice Says Hello
mkPOTO's Avatar
634
Rep
16,662
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 | X5 xdrive 35i MSport
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (25)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
Roman, please understand that I have a huge respect for what ESS Tuning has accomplished over the many years, especially recently with the E9X M3 Supercharger Market. There is no denying that your product in the skilled hands of many members here today, have achieved great results in both the form of acceleration time records and reliability. You can ask any of the more active M3Post and ESS Tuning clients, I often times send them PMs, emails, or write in their threads often times congratulating and sharing how impressed I am with the data and results they share.

This post of yours is a bit disappointing though. You just stated that others shouldn't "talk down about other vendors," yet you are doing the same thing. I only quickly read through this long thread, but my understanding is that, Sal@Evolve is trying to show that the Rotrex C38-91 can flow just as well as the Vortech V3Si despite many others saying it can't. My understanding is that he is just trying to share facts based off his own research and data collection on their supercharger kit. It's a simple comparison of different setup and different blower choice, maybe not necessarily an attack against you, AA, VFE, Gintani, or GPower.

Also claiming that Evolve Automotive doesn't do their own R&D or testing is purely ludicrous! Evolve Automotive is one of the very few companies and tuners that I know of that constantly post about their own R&D. They share their data logs, many photos, CAD designs, and dynos. This is consistent not just on Bimmerpost, but on all the other big BMW forums. Time and time again, they present the type of development they do in house. They also share about the companies that they out source to for different pieces of their overhaul product.

I know that you and many automotive enthusiasts speak highly of the ESS product, but seeing unethical and poor-taste posts such as this really does not help carry a proper image of ESS Tuning. If ever, it can leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I hate to say this, but I have heard of people choosing different companies because they were not impressed with how sometimes ESS Tuning would publicly present themselves. I know these are probably only a small sample size compared to your actual client based, but it does happen. Honestly, I am sure it happens to every company in any industry in one way or another. I just assume that as being the public image of a business, it is best to practice in such a way to reduce any such unfortunate situations.

From my outside perspective, I think you may also be misunderstanding what Sal@Evolve was trying to state in Post #309. I read that post several times and I think what he is trying to say is that if someone were to change how ESS Tuning designed their kit, then the efficiency can drop! Which I think you would agree upon. I personally don't see this as an attack towards you or ESS Tuning.

------

My interpretation of this post is that Sal is saying that if someone moved the placement of the air filter from ESS originally placed it to the back of the supercharger or left it open, then the efficiency would drop. Looking at it from a different prospective, Sal is stating that ESS chose a more suitable location compared to other possibilities. I think the efficiency of the kit that Sal brings up is similar to your claims about controlling heat.

The following quotes from your past posts I believe supports this:

Original Thread Link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7323770


Original Thread Link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7156766

------

Here, I think Sal is trying say that if someone were to replace the Garret core and OEM Porsche heat exchanger for an even cheaper and poorly made variation, then the efficiency of your kit would go down again. I don't see this as Sal talking poorly of ESS, but more so saying that their decisions to outsource their parts from Garret and OEM Porsche is a sound decision!

------

Overall, what I am trying to say is that the constant attacks that I see in this forum towards any company are really just unnecessary. People should just let the products speak for themselves. What I appreciate a lot about ESS Tuning and Evolve Automotive is that they all try to share factual information when they can. In this specific thread, Evolve Automotive posted very candid information on their own R&D and attempts at trying different blowers. I believe this was probably brought up because of the debate between different blower types. I like how there are many threads posted by respectable members displaying their great performance achievements and data logging! Everyone should let fact, research, and data logging take their own course of interpretation on the forum. No need to add snide comments, insults, or potentially false accusations.

The informative and factual types of posts that make visiting the forums enjoyable and educational. The posts that carry a negative tone of insulting other companies is really unnecessary, unethical, and in no way constructive. There will always be rumors, allegations, and misinformation, but I think the responsibility of Forum Sponsors and Vendors is to lead by positive example. This is the for sake of proper business practice and just pure positive enthusiasm for the car culture.

------

So, what about Albanian Women?
Well stated Alex, took the words out of my mouth

Why can't we all play nice
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 02:30 PM   #332
flipm3
E46 + E90 + F80
192
Rep
2,894
Posts

Drives: E46 + E90 + F80
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I know that if your cost is for example 3k you tag on 3times that which is 9k and totals up to 12k then you have costs like facility, tune labor , advertisement , future R&D & cars which in ESS's case they purchase to test on ( not fan boy'ing just laying out facts ) . Basically I say this in defense of all tuners " it's not easy running/operating a company " theirs a lot involved , I should know I run one !
Then ...... When you and the community recognize a good solid product you play with your price ... That nature of business !
Some work on volume some on fine and select clientele....

But nonetheless it's good to see solid competition as that drives the price Down
As much as I love getting great deals on things and for as cheap as possible, haha, I couldn't agree with you any more! It's not easy running a business, especially with one that requires A LOT of investment in product development.

I really think for the power and performance that ESS' kits provide, it is fairly priced. Especially the the ESS VT1-585!! It's near the price of some exhausts or wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriston View Post
So when is the cost coming down on the E9X platforms?
I could be wrong, but I think ESS Tuning has been doing some nice price cuts on all their kits! I think that for the kind of power you make with their product, it is fairly priced. Maybe when the F80 M3 comes out, we will see even more price cuts. As Roman@ESS mentioned, it took years for the E46 M3 kits to have their prices adjusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkPOTO View Post
Well stated Alex, took the words out of my mouth

Why can't we all play nice
Thanks man
__________________
F80 M3 DCT|Alpine White . Black Leather | My Build Thread
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 02:42 PM   #333
Omar@VelosDesignwerks
Colonel
Omar@VelosDesignwerks's Avatar
United_States
441
Rep
2,036
Posts

Drives: Different Ones
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Miami

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post

I could be wrong, but I think ESS Tuning has been doing some nice price cuts on all their kits! I think that for the kind of power you make with their product, it is fairly priced. Maybe when the F80 M3 comes out, we will see even more price cuts. As Roman@ESS mentioned, it took years for the E46 M3 kits to have their prices adjusted.
You are absolutely right.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 03:25 PM   #334
Dellirium
Banned
0
Rep
24
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriston View Post
Since we know all SC manufacturers utilize third party parts. why are the costs of these kits so rediculously expensive. R&D is the only selling point as to why SC manufacturers are charging so much.
Because M3, compare to the prices of SC for a Mustang, a fraction of the price
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 03:51 PM   #335
CSanto
Brigadier General
634
Rep
3,039
Posts

Drives: 2015 BSM/SO M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New York

iTrader: (3)

Everything is getting ridiculously expensive so the tuners are just keeping up with the times.

X-pipes 2k. Axle backs 3-4k. Wheels+Tires 7k.

Things are getting nuts, but the market is there.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 04:44 PM   #336
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HREM3 View Post
Everything is getting ridiculously expensive so the tuners are just keeping up with the times.

X-pipes 2k. Axle backs 3-4k. Wheels+Tires 7k.

Things are getting nuts, but the market is there.
I dunno man ....... Shits crazy these days !!
Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. Me? I use coupons to get pizza.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 04:48 PM   #337
flipm3
E46 + E90 + F80
192
Rep
2,894
Posts

Drives: E46 + E90 + F80
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I dunno man ....... Shits crazy these days !!
Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. Me? I use coupons to get pizza.


My favorite part about this whole thread is the random comic relief.
__________________
F80 M3 DCT|Alpine White . Black Leather | My Build Thread
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 04:55 PM   #338
SflBimmer8484
Brigadier General
SflBimmer8484's Avatar
1467
Rep
3,157
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HREM3 View Post
Everything is getting ridiculously expensive so the tuners are just keeping up with the times.

X-pipes 2k. Axle backs 3-4k. Wheels+Tires 7k.

Things are getting nuts, but the market is there.
The Cars themselves are going up in price dramatically.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 04:55 PM   #339
Sales@Evolve
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
92
Rep
1,064
Posts


Drives: Slow
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Good luck with your rebadged TTS kit Sal, you are a true pioneer
Great sales tactics!

Put the other company down in the worst way possible and then like a hypocrite complain others doing it.

Make a few Rumours up

Try and take away as much you can from the competition possible by literally making up what ever you can.

Look like an absolute idiot when your caught out contradicting yourself and avoid answering anything further.

Job done.

That ESS pattern has been going on for quite some years now and still continues today.

Last edited by Sales@Evolve; 11-06-2012 at 05:04 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 04:58 PM   #340
SflBimmer8484
Brigadier General
SflBimmer8484's Avatar
1467
Rep
3,157
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Great sales tactics!

Put the other company down in the worst way possible and then like a hypocrite complain others doing it.

Make a few Rumours up

Try and take away as much you can from the competition possible by literally making up what ever you can.

Look like an absolutely idiot when your caught out contradicting yourself and avoid answering anything further.

Job done.

That ESS pattern has been going on for quite some years now and still continues today.
Sal, he's a designer an engineer and a sales man..
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 05:06 PM   #341
Sales@Evolve
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
92
Rep
1,064
Posts


Drives: Slow
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I dunno man ....... Shits crazy these days !!
Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. Me? I use coupons to get pizza.


I have to say - after reading some of your PM's to me and your sense of humour it would be good to meet up.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 05:09 PM   #342
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Zim life lesson # 101: If someone throws Skittles at you and yells "taste the rainbow".. Run them over with your supercharged M3 and yell "Nationwide is on your side!"
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 05:21 PM   #343
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33
Zim life lesson # 101: If someone throws Skittles at you and yells "taste the rainbow".. Run them over with your supercharged M3 and yell "Nationwide is on your side!"
LMFAO
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 05:30 PM   #344
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 05:40 PM   #345
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
HAHAHAHAHA
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 06:18 PM   #346
GOVCO
Lieutenant
16
Rep
439
Posts

Drives: 09 E90 AW M3 DCT [Slight Mods]
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
....damn, now I know why your individually built M3 cost 95k...damn dealer rip-off primo lesbo headlight option. Nice!
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 06:34 PM   #347
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

I actually picked it up for less but the sticker came our to that ..
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 06:48 PM   #348
SflBimmer8484
Brigadier General
SflBimmer8484's Avatar
1467
Rep
3,157
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
Funny you posted this.. My headlight just fogged up after a carwash and my headlight no longer works :/ No lesbians found

Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 11-06-2012 at 06:53 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 07:33 PM   #349
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

That's just not acceptable Andrew & it looks like I'm going to join forces with you on this one. We won't stand for
[IMG][/IMG]
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 08:09 PM   #350
SflBimmer8484
Brigadier General
SflBimmer8484's Avatar
1467
Rep
3,157
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
That's just not acceptable Andrew & it looks like I'm going to join forces with you on this one. We won't stand for
[IMG][/IMG]
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 08:11 PM   #351
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Appreciate 0
      11-06-2012, 08:57 PM   #352
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
^ Izzy, stop fogging up his headlamp, we had our fun.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST