Does this seem like a total loss to you guys?

[EnVe46]

What's this myth that "totaled" cars won't ever drive the same again?!?! There's plenty on the road and plenty of drive without issue. I've had a few totaled/salvage vehicles that's you'd never know unless you were looking in repaired areas. These cars are built in pieces making it rather easy to repair. Hell, replacing a roof on these cars is super simple. A rear quarter, suspension pieces and airbags, this thing is ready to roll with little idea it's been repaired. This stigma salvage vehicles are bad is ignorant. This isn't 1980.

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

What's this myth that "totaled" cars won't ever drive the same again?!?! There's plenty on the road and plenty of drive without issue. I've had a few totaled/salvage vehicles that's you'd never know unless you were looking in repaired areas. These cars are built in pieces making it rather easy to repair. Hell, replacing a roof on these cars is super simple. A rear quarter, suspension pieces and airbags, this thing is ready to roll with little idea it's been repaired. This stigma salvage vehicles are bad is ignorant. This isn't 1980.

It's not a myth. If the structural portion of the unibody is damaged the fix is to put it on a frame straightening machine and bend it back into alignment. Have you ever broken a paper clip by bending it back and forth until it broke? The principal is the same. Bending and rebending metal weakens it.

[EnVe46]

Originally Posted by DSilk

It's not a myth. If the structural portion of the unibody is damaged the fix is to put it on a frame straightening machine and bend it back into alignment. Have you ever broken a paper clip by bending it back and forth until it broke? The principal is the same. Bending and rebending metal weakens it.

I've actually had a car put on a frame machine and straightened, right in front of me. Your reference to a paper clip isn't exactly apples to apples. A major bend that weakens the metal isn't worth replacing, a slight bend is hardly any worry. I have family in the car industry and body shop industry so my knowledge on this is fairly more than average person. On newer vehicles crumple zones are easily repaired and when repaired properly can be stronger than original. The statement this car will be vibraitons is ignorant and so far from the truth as majority of the damage, that we can see of course, are easily repairable. Most insurance companies I'll total a car with airbags deployed, especially curtain airbags and side airbags cause of the things needed to replace that they destroy, headliner, plastic clips, seat, etc all adds up in cost especially when purchasing OEM pieces

[Ymalo22]

First and foremost, I'm glad your wife is okay.

My .02 cents... fix your car, hire a lawyer and sue the shit out of the other driver.

I personally always say, I don't fear my driving, I fear the other drivers on the road around me. Another perfect example here.

[deansbimmer]

What many people don't understand is that cars aren't usually "totaled" because the damage is so severe that the car would be unsafe after repairs, but because the cost of parts and labor to properly repair the damage would exceed the value of the car and repair would not be economically feasible.

The OP's car is far from being an unrepairable, bent-chassis, doomed-for-the-scrapper hot mess. While the OP's car won't need it, there is absolutely nothing inherently less safe about a car that has had some proper work done on a frame straightener.

[BayE30]

Originally Posted by DSilk

It's not a myth. If the structural portion of the unibody is damaged the fix is to put it on a frame straightening machine and bend it back into alignment. Have you ever broken a paper clip by bending it back and forth until it broke? The principal is the same. Bending and rebending metal weakens it.

Again, this is wrong. Depending on the part in question, the frame machine is only there to pull damaged panels back into spec before cutting off the damaged parts to be replaced. Rarely do we pull structural parts and then call it a day. The pull back into spec is so that we can be sure we are placing the new part into the correct position, and this is done to the +-3mm tolerance.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

Again, this is wrong. Depending on the part in question, the frame machine is only there to pull damaged panels back into spec before cutting off the damaged parts to be replaced. Rarely do we pull structural parts and then call it a day. The pull back into spec is so that we can be sure we are placing the new part into the correct position, and this is done to the +-3mm tolerance.

Yowza. +/- 3.00mm seems like a big gap. A near 1/4" spectrum of tolerance is a lot for some high precision stuff that can affect suspension geometry as an example.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

What's this myth that "totaled" cars won't ever drive the same again?!?! There's plenty on the road and plenty of drive without issue. I've had a few totaled/salvage vehicles that's you'd never know unless you were looking in repaired areas. These cars are built in pieces making it rather easy to repair. Hell, replacing a roof on these cars is super simple. A rear quarter, suspension pieces and airbags, this thing is ready to roll with little idea it's been repaired. This stigma salvage vehicles are bad is ignorant. This isn't 1980.

No one on these forums will ever pay pre-accident value for that car, even after it is repaired to absolute perfection after being t-boned (the most unnatural direction for any car to travel).

The vast majority would run the opposite direction regardless of your flawless anecdotal experience.

If it was shown/proven that repaired "totaled" performance cars consistently performed the same afterwards the prices wouldn't be so much less for them.

[BayE30]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Yowza. +/- 3.00mm seems like a big gap. A near 1/4" spectrum of tolerance is a lot for some high precision stuff that can affect suspension geometry as an example.

1" = 25.4mm, so 3mm is not 1/4". Does anybody on this forum have any technical knowledge?? these tolerances are per manufacturer. also you are assuming the worst is that it will be +3mm one way and -3mm the other making a 6mm gap, which is incorrect. the overall tolerance is +-3mm max.


I'm done, I will not share any more of my knowledge on this topic, its falling on deaf ears.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

1" = 25.4mm, so 3mm is not 1/4". Does anybody on this forum have any technical knowledge?? these tolerances are per manufacturer. also you are assuming the worst is that it will be +3mm one way and -3mm the other making a 6mm gap, which is incorrect. the overall tolerance is +-3mm max.


I'm done, I will not share any more of my knowledge on this topic, its falling on deaf ears.

LOL. I'm an engineer for a metric industrial gearbox manufacturer. I work within thousandths of millimeters and have plenty of technical knowledge. Notice I said "... near 1/4" spectrum of tolerance...". Tolerance spectrum (range) total from LMC to MMC is 6.00mm which is 0.35mm less than 1/4". So yes, a near 1/4" spectrum. Does anyone on this forum have any reading comprehension knowledge??

Not trying to start a pissing match, I just found it wild that crucial bits can go 3mm either way from nominal. I'm sure it's difficult to "bend" something back to nominal; I just would have assumed that it would be more precise is all

-T.O.

[SEMOM3]

For suspension, mounting areas, or structural sections my frame specialist will match to 1/16" to 1/32" and I work with him while he does it.
For body sections, and other incidental areas, it's not as crucial. It's very possible to get things back into pre-crash spec with effort.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by DSilk

It's not a myth. If the structural portion of the unibody is damaged the fix is to put it on a frame straightening machine and bend it back into alignment. Have you ever broken a paper clip by bending it back and forth until it broke? The principal is the same. Bending and rebending metal weakens it.

The metal has yielded already, otherwise, it would have returned to its original shape after impact. It's called plastic deformation in engineering terms.

[EnVe46]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

No one on these forums will ever pay pre-accident value for that car, even after it is repaired to absolute perfection after being t-boned (the most unnatural direction for any car to travel).

The vast majority would run the opposite direction regardless of your flawless anecdotal experience.

If it was shown/proven that repaired "totaled" performance cars consistently performed the same afterwards the prices wouldn't be so much less for them.

People on this forum are a very small % of people who buy and sell cars. There are plenty of people who will pay less for a car due to it being in an accident but repaired properly. I was one of those people. Now, my financial situation has allowed me to be more specific but in the grand scheme of things, an E9x that's been repaired properly and one that's never been in a wreck will provide, generally, the level of happiness to their owners. This idea that a severe wreck which caused a high price tag of damage makes the car inferior cause it doesn't fit your liking is retarded. This car will be repaired by someone and enjoyed for far less than what us will "clean cars" paid.

[jiggz]

This thread of full of bodyshop/vehicle repair specialists!

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

People on this forum are a very small % of people who buy and sell cars. There are plenty of people who will pay less for a car due to it being in an accident but repaired properly. I was one of those people. Now, my financial situation has allowed me to be more specific but in the grand scheme of things, an E9x that's been repaired properly and one that's never been in a wreck will provide, generally, the level of happiness to their owners. This idea that a severe wreck which caused a high price tag of damage makes the car inferior cause it doesn't fit your liking is retarded. This car will be repaired by someone and enjoyed for far less than what us will "clean cars" paid.

Fit my liking? I "liking" my cars not having "severe wrecks". I think the vast majority of the world agrees with me.

That large % of people you refer to that are not on these forums probably know way less about whether a car was fixed correctly or not.

Try putting "severe wreck" in a sales post and see if every prospective buyer on Craigslist or Autotrader, and trade-in dealer doesn't consider it inferior in every possible way.

Trying to to change widespread societal belief, one post at a time. How's that working out for ya?

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

Again, this is wrong. Depending on the part in question, the frame machine is only there to pull damaged panels back into spec before cutting off the damaged parts to be replaced. Rarely do we pull structural parts and then call it a day. The pull back into spec is so that we can be sure we are placing the new part into the correct position, and this is done to the +-3mm tolerance.

If the structural member is deformed, there are only 2 methods of repairing it. The first is to bend it back to its original position, and the second is to cut out the damaged section and weld in a replacement. Unless you make your cuts and welds exactly where the factory welded sections together you are weakening the structure. While high end restoration shops may do this, most body shops will not (and few, if any, insurance companies will authorize that kind of spending to repair a car worth less than $40,000), and any physicist or engineer can tell you that a frame that has been bent and subsequently straightened will never be as strong as one that was never bent.

[EnVe46]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

Fit my liking? I "liking" my cars not having "severe wrecks". I think the vast majority of the world agrees with me.

That large % of people you refer to that are not on these forums probably know way less about whether a car was fixed correctly or not.

Try putting "severe wreck" in a sales post and see if every prospective buyer on Craigslist or Autotrader, and trade-in dealer doesn't consider it inferior in every possible way.

Trying to to change widespread societal belief, one post at a time. How's that working out for ya?

You've got this sense that a wrecked car, to some degree, won't do everything a "clean" car would and that's so far from the truth. Your use of adjectives doesn't change the fact a properly repaired car may be worth less but less inferior is a laughable statement. I'm not trying to change anyone's view on the matter, simply defending the notion that this car will have issues when it's fixed, like vibrations etc which were your words. Clearly you have no knowledge in the repair process to determine that.

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

You've got this sense that a wrecked car, to some degree, won't do everything a "clean" car would and that's so far from the truth. Your use of adjectives doesn't change the fact a properly repaired car may be worth less but less inferior is a laughable statement. I'm not trying to change anyone's view on the matter, simply defending the notion that this car will have issues when it's fixed, like vibrations etc which were your words. Clearly you have no knowledge in the repair process to determine that.

It isn't just a sense. It's a fact. Is it possible to straighten a bent frame back to its original position so that wheel alignment and panel fit are within factory tolerances? Yes, assuming the proper equipment is used by a skilled craftsman. But, the rub is that the bending of the frame in the accident, as well as the rebending to realign it, has weakened the metal. This may not be obvious at first glance, but the frame of the car (the "unibody") is subject to a lot of forces and stresses during driving (remember that the engine and suspension are mounted to it), and the amount by which the integrity of that structure has been compromised will, at some point, become apparent, if only in the course of a subsequent collision.

This is the reason that EVERYBODY places a substantially lower value on a car with a salvage title, and why most insurance companies will not approve repairs when a car has suffered structural damage.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

You've got this sense that a wrecked car, to some degree, won't do everything a "clean" car would and that's so far from the truth. Your use of adjectives doesn't change the fact a properly repaired car may be worth less but less inferior is a laughable statement. I'm not trying to change anyone's view on the matter, simply defending the notion that this car will have issues when it's fixed, like vibrations etc which were your words. Clearly you have no knowledge in the repair process to determine that.

"Less inferior" is a laughable statement because its an oxymoron, "which were your words".

[McSwine]

Jeez, I wish the guy would find out if it's totaled or not so we can put this to rest.

[Scrippy]

Trunk now favors passenger side.

[Styral]

In my opinion it is indeed totaled. Rear suspension components, new wheel, airbags, all of those are relatively cheap when compared to the value of the car.

I'm surprised no one has pointed out the obvious. What totals this car for me is the wrinkled rear quarter, that's going to be the most expensive part to fix by far.

The cost to get a new panel + the labor hours to cut,measure, weld, sand, and repaint alone will almost justify it being totaled.