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      04-02-2009, 11:08 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by alito View Post
Actually, BMW sells about 40-50% of its total car sales in the US. latest figures 42,731 total 21,125 Unites states. The simple reason is money. It is all about money for companies no-a-days. Instead of long term... it's all about the now. Why do you think the world is in this mess ? In reality, a car like LEXUS is really not that great however their customer service is bar none hence people have a different perception of their cars and tend to forget the problems they had. Us on the other hand, will surely remember. I for one, will never buy another BMW. It is too bad there are no other fast 4 seat hard-top convertibles out there. The CTSV convertible hardtop by Cadillac was scrapped due to the GM problems. I have a friend with a CTSV (he is a Detroit engineer) and it is truly an amazing car and will blow the doors off my M3 and for almost $15K less. If I am going to have shitty customer service and poor quality, might as well buy american.
I currently own a 2000 Lexus SC 300 that has about 270000 miles on it.
Soon I will give that car to my cousin who does not have a car.
At the same time, I will soon inherit a 2003 Lexus LS 430 that
has about 55,000 miles on it. I know the history on that car as well.
Other family members of mine have owned a Lexus as well.
In terms of performance, I agree that Lexus is nothing special.
However, except for the very early models like around 1992,
the quality of Lexus cars have generally been very impressive.
Lexus makes very reliable vehicles and I agree with you that the
service is generally top notch as well.

I've been planning on getting a new car for over a year now.
However, due to a variety of things going on, I have not been
able to get a new car. The car that I was strongly considering
getting is the M3 coupe to replace my Lexus SC 300.
Thankfully I discovered this forum and found out about
the lag issue and how BMW is handling it before throwing
down $70000+ for a new M3. However, due to the lag issue
and BMW's failure to fix it, I am strongly considering looking elsewhere.
At some point, BMW has to realize that not fixing this
problem will eventually cost them negative publicity
and loss of sales.
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      04-02-2009, 11:12 PM   #222
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Is the lag worse or better according to what "power" mode (normal, sport, sport plus) you are in? On my '09 M3 Coupe DCT, I'm always in "normal" power mode and I've tried to replicate the lag, and couldn't. I then switched to sport plus and ran it in D2 and there was a slight hesitation, but if I were not waiting for it, I probably wouldn't have even noticed it. My coupe is a late September '08 build....no updates but it does have the 31.1 version.
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      04-03-2009, 03:17 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horned Frog View Post
However, due to the lag issue and BMW's failure to fix it, I am strongly considering looking elsewhere. At some point, BMW has to realize that not fixing this problem will eventually cost them negative publicity and loss of sales.
Do keep things in perspective.

1. The transmission still gets a 9.5/10 in my book, probably in many others view as well.
2. The lag is not a problem at all during sporty driving.
3. You can adapt a bit and drive around the lag
4. BMW is likely to fix it.

Now I a not saying this is not a huge pimple on the face of a supermodel - it it, but keep it in perspective. If I knew about the issues before buying I would still buy the car and this transmission. You may feel this type of attitude gives ammunition to BMW to ignore the problem. I do not think it does. Again, just don't want you to miss out on a stellar car and stellar transmission.
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      04-03-2009, 06:05 AM   #224
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It's a great car and in my opinion the DCT transmission makes it a more versatile car than with the manual. Yes it has some small issues with lag and yes there is better DCT gearboxes out there, two that spring to mind are the Porsche's PDK and Audi's new 7sp DSG but with the Porsche the controls are awful to use and back to front from what everyone else uses, as for the Audi's gearbox, well there is a valid argument to say that the car's thus equipped aren't as rewarding to drive as the M3.

Like swamp I too would rate the M-DCT about a solid 9~9.5 out of 10, and though the lag is annoying you can drive around the problem and I find that if you drive in a very relaxed manner the lag does seem to disappear but as this is a 420hp motorcar one shouldn't be expected to have to drive it easy or want to.

Unlike swamp I find it incredible that after approx 1 year after launch the issues are still there which ain't present in either the DSG or PDK (two versions of this type of transmission) so either BMW rushed it's DCT through which is my belief or their co-development with the gearbox supplier was not to the standard of the rest.
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      04-03-2009, 07:59 AM   #225
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Bad news, the new fix they applied to my car directly from germany did not fix the issue in traffic.

I have always been able to replicated(Letting the car roll and then apllying throttle) the issue but not with this new release (Maybe it is just me and nothing changed).

I asked about the software version but the shop technician did not know and said it was a special request from BMW DE to apply a custom version?????????


SO IF THIS IS THE REAL FIX, IT DID NOT SOLVE ANYTHING AND THAT SUCKS BIG TIME.
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      04-03-2009, 08:50 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitramsen View Post
Bad news, the new fix they applied to my car directly from germany did not fix the issue in traffic.

I have always been able to replicated(Letting the car roll and then apllying throttle) the issue but not with this new release (Maybe it is just me and nothing changed).

I asked about the software version but the shop technician did not know and said it was a special request from BMW DE to apply a custom version?????????


SO IF THIS IS THE REAL FIX, IT DID NOT SOLVE ANYTHING AND THAT SUCKS BIG TIME.
Sorry, in your first sentence you say it didn't fix the lag but then you go on to say that after the new software release you can't replicate the lag issue? I don't get it...

Anyway, probably your very last sentence is pretty clear...
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      04-03-2009, 08:53 AM   #227
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[quote=swamp2;4841519]Do keep things in perspective.



Now I a not saying this is not a huge pimple on the face of a supermodel - ]



that is funny...... I like that !
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      04-03-2009, 10:45 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitramsen View Post
Bad news, the new fix they applied to my car directly from germany did not fix the issue in traffic.

I have always been able to replicated(Letting the car roll and then apllying throttle) the issue but not with this new release (Maybe it is just me and nothing changed).

I asked about the software version but the shop technician did not know and said it was a special request from BMW DE to apply a custom version?????????


SO IF THIS IS THE REAL FIX, IT DID NOT SOLVE ANYTHING AND THAT SUCKS BIG TIME.
Wow, sounds like you were a beta tester then?

Sorry to hear there was nothing solved by the new software. We go back to waiting, and waiting...
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      04-03-2009, 11:20 AM   #229
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First hand scary experience today with this LAG issue. I seldom drive my car in D mode as it always default to S3 (here in the US of A). This morning it was gray and raining that I was not in a mood to row the shifter. I need to make a quick left turn as an approaching fast car is going straight. Right there when I was turning and I remembered, "what if the LAG just decided to show up", and it did. It was scary even when the LAG is just half a second. So from now on I will do the shifting myself until we get(?) this update. But what about my wife? She drives my car also and she prefers to use the D mode. This is an accident waiting to happen.

As I can see it, BMW is denying that there is a LAG issue just in case somebody (I hope not) had an accident because of this LAG problem. That person who was in that accident cannot prove that the car hesitated even for a split second. They can always contest that you should make a turn (or whatever) in a safe and with ample time.

But the bottom line is, I still like my DCT M3 and hoping that BMW fix the problem ASAP.
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      04-03-2009, 11:30 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
Sorry, in your first sentence you say it didn't fix the lag but then you go on to say that after the new software release you can't replicate the lag issue? I don't get it...

Anyway, probably your very last sentence is pretty clear...
What I mean is that on a straight road I could not force replicate the issue but in traffic it is still there.
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      04-03-2009, 11:33 AM   #231
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I has back in the shop and it turns out that I got the following software version SAPIA.P2.33.0. SO I assume this is 33.0.

After some more driving the fault is definatly still there and in one instance the gearbox paniced into 2nd with a loud CLUNK which never happenend to me before.
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      04-03-2009, 11:59 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Wow, sounds like you were a beta tester then?

Sorry to hear there was nothing solved by the new software. We go back to waiting, and waiting...
I assume that I was one of the first to get the update but if I was a beta tester I do not know. I did not get paid for it, but from we are used to from BMW no one is

Maybe we should all send them an invoice for testing thier prototypes......
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      04-05-2009, 01:35 PM   #233
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      04-06-2009, 06:55 AM   #234
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I've always been afraid of that, but am holding out hope that it can be fixed.

I am glad you liked my quote...

Someone live in Detroit? The detroit free press would love to hear of something like this... specially now! I have not as of yet, but I am drafting BMW a letter to inform them of this issue, that it was not there before the "update" and that, regardless of them calling it "normal," I fear for my safety and that of my family. That the letter is to have a written record in case a serious accident happens they do not play ignorance.
I will not waste my dealer's time with this. They are awesome (Reeves in Tampa) and there is no purpose in them chaising their tales. I will take it there because I need something else and I will have them just document my complaint.
Again, from a recent previous experience with a BMW, this will likely not be fixed nor does BMW care unless it reaches a critical point for them. They do not realize the long term impact. My mom had an Audi A4 Avant that was getting too big for her. I was considering a 1 series but will never buy BMW again. I just bought a Mazda CX-9 that not only has it been trouble free, it drives nice and costs $25-30K less than a comparably equiped X5 but the dealer has been great as has Mazda. There was one recall and Mazda sent me a letter stating they were aware of the problem and working on it. When it was available, I went in and it was fixed in under one hour and with a free car wash and oil change and the dealer could not have apologized more. I then got a phone call, NOT a survey to make sure I was happy!!
What does that mean BMW? It means that I just bought mom a fully loaded Mazda 3 instead of a 1 series for $15K less and with surprisingly more extras.
Somehow, I think I am wasting my words.... as stated by a previous coment, BMW does have people who read this and we are thought of as a "few" that just complain and bitch about everything and imagine these problems... Hope that imaginary 18 wheeler does not kill me as it rams into the back of my car as I make a U-turn...
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      04-06-2009, 10:28 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alito View Post
I have not as of yet, but I am drafting BMW a letter to inform them of this issue, that it was not there before the "update" and that, regardless of them calling it "normal," I fear for my safety and that of my family. That the letter is to have a written record in case a serious accident happens they do not play ignorance.
+1
I think that's the best way to go. Document officially your complaint so you have proper paper trail in case of an accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alito View Post
I will not waste my dealer's time with this. They are awesome (Reeves in Tampa) and there is no purpose in them chaising their tales. I will take it there because I need something else and I will have them just document my complaint.
I think you need to "waste your dealer's time" on this as you probably have to give them a chance to make good for it (we all know this won't happen of course) and state this in your letter. If your dealer (your first contact point) can't do anything then you go higher. Probably you need to reflect this in your letter otherwise BMW may claim that you are complaining too much without trying the dealer first!

Anyway, at least that's what I did in case it helps...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alito View Post
Again, from a recent previous experience with a BMW, this will likely not be fixed nor does BMW care unless it reaches a critical point for them. They do not realize the long term impact.
+1
That's why I think it is very important to build critical mass by means of more written complains.
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      04-07-2009, 06:24 PM   #236
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This is probably a bit too unlikely but....anyway so today the DCT in my M3 threw a bit of a spaz, in manual S4, instead of almost an instant reaction to an upshift command the box was taking up to half a second before making the upshift and the downshift into second took forever...is this how it is all the time for you guys having problems with lag? I'm guessing not but thought it worth asking. After a restart the DCT was back to full health.
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      04-07-2009, 08:00 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
This is probably a bit too unlikely but....anyway so today the DCT in my M3 threw a bit of a spaz, in manual S4, instead of almost an instant reaction to an upshift command the box was taking up to half a second before making the upshift and the downshift into second took forever...is this how it is all the time for you guys having problems with lag? I'm guessing not but thought it worth asking. After a restart the DCT was back to full health.
Different issue - though the upshift lag has happened to me a couple times.
As for the downshift lag, keep in mind that once the transmission takes "ownership" of the downshift, you are pretty much at its mercy. When in S mode, I try to downshift myself at all times to ensure I'm always in the gear I want to be in. I'm not sure if this is the downshift lag you are referring to, but I thought it would be worth it to throw in the tip anyway.
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      04-08-2009, 05:12 PM   #238
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Just a quick update as I have to run down to the dealer to pick up the car. They opened a PUMA case due to a PV-7 fault code from the transmission. Regional tech asked them to download a program code to the EGS module. I will update in a couple of hours as to the results. Preliminary comment from tech is that he could not duplicate the lag subsequent to reprogram.
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      04-08-2009, 06:41 PM   #239
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Fixed!
More details after an extended drive and I get back to a computer.

{totally tech unsavy guy posting on a treo}
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      04-08-2009, 06:45 PM   #240
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Fixed!
More details after an extended drive and I get back to a computer.
I hope you are right but I too thought excitedly a few weeks ago that my car was fixed for good and this opinion continued for the best part of nearly three weeks but sad to say it returned.

But please keep us posted over the next three or so weeks.
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      04-08-2009, 09:11 PM   #241
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Quote:
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I hope you are right but I too thought excitedly a few weeks ago that my car was fixed for good and this opinion continued for the best part of nearly three weeks but sad to say it returned.

But please keep us posted over the next three or so weeks.
I don't care about the next three weeks. This definitely improved the performance of the transmission significantly. Granted, I haven't had enough time to try out the myriad scenarios available to generate problems, but this, without a doubt, is a fix to the lag problem.

The main thing to point out as a difference is that the transmission picks a gear and engages it, right now. Sometimes it's third or second when you might want 2nd or 1st, but at least when I push the throttle down, the transmission is engaged in a gear. It's not in neutral. It may not be a perfect solution, but it is certainly a significant improvement.

I don't know if this is an official "fix". All I know is my SA told me his regional rep told the tech to download a particular software upgrade to the car. Of course, I lost my infotainment presets, but that is a small price to pay in my mind.
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      04-08-2009, 09:14 PM   #242
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Thought I'd just point out the change in my signature. I no longer feel the need to quote alito. Although, I appreciate his contribution.
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