Experiences With No-Haggle "True Price"?

[R5311]

Has anyone had experiences with dealerships' no-haggle "true prices", Sonic in particular? Obviously Carmax has made a business out of it, but this is a BMW dealership. I'm looking at an M3 and they won't work with me on the price, even though it's pretty reasonable. Won't even scratch their "dealership fee" ...ha. They keep talking about how it's a Sonic-wide fee. Looks like a clean car, but what is the fun of buying if you can't negotiate? And I don't want to walk away feeling like I got taken by paying list-price

Anyone managed to knock the price down a bit?

[skiborsy]

I've purchased a Mercedes and a BMW from two different Sonic dealers. Both were used cars, but both negotiated on price.

[R5311]

Originally Posted by skiborsy

I've purchased a Mercedes and a BMW from two different Sonic dealers. Both were used cars, but both negotiated on price.

Was the price advertised as "true price"?

[Ervin87]

If you don't want to post the car details, PM me and I will tell you if the price is good or not based on auction prices for similar cars.

[R5311]

Originally Posted by Ervin87

If you don't want to post the car details, PM me and I will tell you if the price is good or not based on auction prices for similar cars.

I appreciate it, PM sent.

[douglee25]

I found out that during my internet car search that the pricing posted at most dealerships these days, BMW or independent, are literally almost at bottom dollar. The dealerships will literally not take one dollar off the car. Gone are the days where deep discounting was possible.

Doug

[roastbeef]

i don't like it. its designed to give a false sense of their "bottom dollar" when it really isn't.

[douglee25]

Yet they basically say FU and choose not to haggle. They will wait for the next guy who they can take advantage of.

When I was shopping, I knew what I wanted to spend, and I knew what the market was bringing in for the exact model. I made an offer and the guy basically laughed at my offer because it was 5k less than his asking price. When I explained why, he said he'd check with his manager. He came back and said they weren't willing to negotiate at all. I said ok fair enough. I said let me ask you a question, what is a fair number to make on a used car? I said $1000-$2000 dollar max? He wouldn't answer. I said tell me what you paid and have into the car and I'll give you $1000 over it. He wouldn't answer me or give me a straight answer. I had family in the car business for well over 40+ years. I know for a fact that my offer was in line and generous.

Doug

[chaforjohn]

Oh yeah, I just bought my e92 from a Sonic dealership, specifically, Beverly Hills BMW.
BEWARE of them.

I have Tier 1 credit and they tried to mark up my APR over 2%. I called BS and asked them if they marked it up, and the salesperson said "we don't mark up the rate."

Five minutes later after a couple of back and forth conversations with her boss, and I was back down 2% to a better, more reasonable rate. I felt like I was at the Hong Kong night market.

[R5311]

Every time I've tried to negotiate anything with this guy, I'm met with indignation. I suggested he could waive the "dealer fee" and he animatedly told me that would lead to a class-action lawsuit since everyone pays it, and thousands of people would have to get their money back... this guy's a real treat. Too bad I've been looking for a year and I want this damn car.

[douglee25]

Originally Posted by R5311

Every time I've tried to negotiate anything with this guy, I'm met with indignation. I suggested he could waive the "dealer fee" and he animatedly told me that would lead to a class-action lawsuit since everyone pays it, and thousands of people would have to get their money back... this guy's a real treat. Too bad I've been looking for a year and I want this damn car.

Ha. I think our dealers must have read the same book! He said something like that to me too.

The other funny part to my story was after I made the initial offer that he declined to even negotiate with, I left and went elsewhere to check out some vehicles. At the end of the day, I called him back and said I wanted to pay X dollars - tax, title, fees, etc. I said I don't care what your fees are for prep, blah blah blah, this is the max I'm willing to pay - juggle your numbers internally on paper but this is my max. He goes OK let me talk to the manager. He calls me back within 1 min and goes wait a sec, this is less than you initially offered this morning when you were sitting in front of me! I said well I guess you should have accepted the offer then!

Doug

[R5311]

This. I told him I wanted to pay xx out the door, after trade-in, money down, taxes, etc., and that if he wanted to pretend that he couldn't discount the E92 any more and that he's just giving me more on my trade-in, then so be it. All I care is what I pay at the end of the day. We shall see.

Originally Posted by douglee25

Ha. I think our dealers must have read the same book! He said something like that to me too.

The other funny part to my story was after I made the initial offer that he declined to even negotiate with, I left and went elsewhere to check out some vehicles. At the end of the day, I called him back and said I wanted to pay X dollars - tax, title, fees, etc. I said I don't care what your fees are for prep, blah blah blah, this is the max I'm willing to pay - juggle your numbers internally on paper but this is my max. He goes OK let me talk to the manager. He calls me back within 1 min and goes wait a sec, this is less than you initially offered this morning when you were sitting in front of me! I said well I guess you should have accepted the offer then!

Doug

[346TEXAS]

I'm going through this issue too. I've finally found the car I want and it's pretty local to me. It's only been listed for two days, i tried to request info by email and "requesting the true price" online and wasn't contacted. I phoned the dealership this morning and a woman phoned me back. She was unprepared and had a very curt attitude.

I told her I had noticed that the CARFAX showed 4 individual tires replaced and balanced on four occasions in four years and two complete pairs changed and balanced. I asked if she thought this was a "suspension" problem, just to add some negativity and get her thinking.

She told me the previous owner "probably didn't look after it". Ha ha ha. I told her that was bad news. She said he probably "didn't drive it very well." Brilliant! Then she tried to back track a bit. I told her this car didn't have ZCP, but a local dealer in her network has a similar spec and age car at the same price with ZCP, so with that in mind, if I were to put a deposit down today and buy it before it even hits the forecourt, what price will they give me.

She was totally offended and practically lost it, genuinely aggressive, spelling out the price to me and saying they NEVER, EVER negotiate.

I didn't actually know this was a "policy" at the time, and if she had tried to laugh it off and work with me I would probably be there now paying what is a pretty fair price. However, given her attitude I told her I guess I'll keep looking, to which she replied "I guess so" and I hung up.

So now do I buy the car that I want that is a "fair" but not "great" price and swallow some "pride" and pay sticker for the first time ever. Or do I take the risk that it will be there at the end of the month and maybe save $500? I'm guessing the best thing to do is speak to a different representative.... Guess it depends how badly I want this color combo....

Funny thing is there is still an option on their website to be "alerted" when the price drops!

[M3FISH]

I bought mine in Jan & another for my wife 2 months ago & I did the same thing for both dealers who were Sonic. I was willing to travel so I did a 500 mile search point on autotrader. Called anything close to what I wanted & went "bottom dollar" with all of them. I used each bid against the next one & they all asked for proof which I happily sent. They will work with you but you have to pull some bs like this to make them budge. It really all matters what they have in it.

[buddalun]

Originally Posted by chaforjohn

I felt like I was at the Hong Kong night market.

I know this feeling all too well whilst negotiating at dealers.

We all know there is always "room" for a dealer to budge. Just a question of their willingness and your tact/force level. I'd likely pass on the car if they aren't willing to reduce the price at all or give you other things in addition (ie, extended warranty, new tires, all weather mats, etc). But, if you love it, then just pay.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i don't like it. its designed to give a false sense of their "bottom dollar" when it really isn't.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

FWIW my M3 came from CarMax, so I'm familiar with how their no-haggle thing works.

[RobC2]

I think it is a joke. I recently made an appointment to check out a used M3 at a local dealer. Not only did they suddenly have "firm" prices on their cars, but they also wouldn't let me test drive the car with 39k miles on it until we agreed and shook on a price. Keep in mind, I was in my 13k mile Z4 and let them "drive" it to appraise it for trade in value. What a waste of time.

[cenix]

^ a car dealership that sells cars that won't let you test drive a car you came to potentially buy. something wrong here?

[douglee25]

Ridiculous right?

I went to buy a motorcycle... a used one at that. The dealership wouldn't let me ride it. Ummmm, I'm not a young punk? I have a motorcycle license? I rode here on a motorcycle? What is the proble here?

[BNBM3]

Look up the TMV pricing on Edmunds. That is generally a good place to start. Uses real data from dealers. I would look up the car you are trying to buy on Edmunds and get the TMV and see if it's lower or much lower - on an M3, it probably will be. Point out that this uses real dealer sales data, say that their dealership probably participates, and see what you can do.

I've found it quite effective, personally.