DOT-R Tires Discussion

[lucid]

Originally Posted by M3 Montreal

Are there any other suggestions for street/track tires? I was thinking of going 265/285 or 275/295. Fronts are 9.5's and rears are 10.5's.

On a sidenote... Lucid , you going to Tremblant with BMW Boston again this year?

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec are great street tires that do well on the track, but they don't come in 19". I'm still considering Tremblant. Will PM you if I decide to go in case you'll be there as well.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by lucid

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec are great street tires that do well on the track, but they don't come in 19". I'm still considering Tremblant. Will PM you if I decide to go in case you'll be there as well.

Stay away from the Dunlops, I had a hell of a time with them. Would not balance, pulled to one direction. They swapped my fronts twice, I had an alignment and numerous wheel/tire balancing work. Worked well for a while, but giving me issues again.
I would get NTO5s, RE-11s, AD08s if you want a tire in that category.

I am replacing the Dunlops with the NT05s.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by STALKER

Stay away from the Dunlops, I had a hell of a time with them. Would not balance, pulled to one direction. They swapped my fronts twice, I had an alignment and numerous wheel/tire balancing work. Worked well for a while, but giving me issues again.
I would get NTO5s, RE-11s, AD08s if you want a tire in that category.

I am replacing the Dunlops with the NT05s.

First time I heard negative feedback on the Z1 Star Specs--I am assuming those are the Dunlops you are referring to, or to another Dunlop product? Many folks run them on the Z4M coupes on and off the track and they absolutely love them. Also, what sizes are you running them?

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by lucid

First time I heard negative feedback on the Z1 Star Specs--I am assuming those are the Dunlops you are referring to, or to another Dunlop product? Many folks run them on the Z4M coupes on and off the track and they absolutely love them. Also, what sizes are you running them?

I had the Star Specs.
They had very good grip, but other then that, they were horrible.
I was running 265/35 front and 275/35 rear.

I had only heard good things too, thats why I purchased them. Maybe they don't work as well on heavier cars.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by STALKER

I had only heard good things too, thats why I purchased them. Maybe they don't work as well on heavier cars.

Possible. I have a couple of friends who run them on their E30 M3s on and off the track as well, and they are very happy with them, too. Too bad they didn't work out on your E92 M3.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by lucid

Possible. I have a couple of friends who run them on their E30 M3s on and off the track as well, and they are very happy with them, too. Too bad they didn't work out on your E92 M3.

I think its the weight.
My front tires were replaced 3 times and it was working well for a little while, but its getting worse and worse now. I am replacing them with 275/35 and 285/35 Nitto NT-05s.

[aus]

Originally Posted by STALKER

I think its the weight.
My front tires were replaced 3 times and it was working well for a little while, but its getting worse and worse now. I am replacing them with 275/35 and 285/35 Nitto NT-05s.

Did they refund your money?
I was SET on them. Thanks for all the updates. What's weird is, they have the appropriate weight rating.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by aus

Did they refund your money?
I was SET on them. Thanks for all the updates. What's weird is, they have the appropriate weight rating.

They are, but Im losing the money I spent on an alignment I did not need and I went to a few shops to balance them. So Im out a few hundred for that stuff.

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by STALKER

Stay away from the Dunlops, I had a hell of a time with them. Would not balance, pulled to one direction. They swapped my fronts twice, I had an alignment and numerous wheel/tire balancing work. Worked well for a while, but giving me issues again.
I would get NTO5s, RE-11s, AD08s if you want a tire in that category.

I am replacing the Dunlops with the NT05s.

These the NT05's you are talking about right? Pretty decent price (for Canada)

http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?ti...tiremodel=NT05

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by STALKER

I had the Star Specs.
They had very good grip, but other then that, they were horrible.
I was running 265/35 front and 275/35 rear.

I had only heard good things too, thats why I purchased them. Maybe they don't work as well on heavier cars.

Actually, I had an issue the last time I was at the track here in Korea with my E46 which wears 225/245 Dunlop Z1 SS's.

My front tires got super greasy on my first run. Then my front end would vibrate on a long right hand turn. I had to slow down a lot. This started happening about 10 minutes into my run.

After the session, the tread on my front tires were melting off, bad. The tread blocks are no longer flat.

Then they were fine on my second run, when it was 20 degrees hotter out and I was driving much faster.

Not sure if it was a track or tire issue? There was a LOT of junk and debris on the track.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by M3 Montreal

These the NT05's you are talking about right? Pretty decent price (for Canada)

http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?ti...tiremodel=NT05

Yup, those are them.

[dawgdog]

Just ordered a set of Toyo R888s in 275/35/18 for Tiresdirect.com. Less than $190 a tire. My Kumho Ecsta XSs are done.

[aus]

How were the XS? I'm thinking of using them for a track event only tire.

I've read the 888's don't do well with a big car, so your input would be great on those as well.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

You might have cooked new, full tread tires?

Actually, these are about 18 months old with about 1/3 tread left before my last day at the track.

[rzm3]

Interesting article here by BR Racing:

Tires – Which ones for track duty?

Even with the great progression tires have made over the last period of years, the OEM and high performance tires are really no match for the track. Or, you have a decision to make….destroy a perfectly good set of street tires every time you go to the track, and still not have the right set you need for the abuse that gets dished out at the track. You wanted to go to the track to drive fast….and the tires can either be the biggest help, or the biggest hinderance….your choice. But, if you decide to get a set of dedicated track tires….which ones?

We will put tires into three categories.

- high performance street tires (max performance, or max summer performance)

- DOT-R tires (street legal, but really dedicated track tires)

- Racing slicks (NOT street legal, and really only for racing cars that have suspension that can handle the loads that will be generated)

As we stated in the opening, most high performance street tires are just that, high performance street tires. So, our focus will be on the DOT-R track tires. These are very sticky, track oriented tires. They are DOT street legal, and many track users commute to the track and back with them on the car, and then switch back to their street tires when they return home. But, they are certainly not tires you would ever want to be caught on the street with if any rain arrived……oh no (think of driving on ice and you have the right picture).

So, you now want a set of track tires….but which ones? There are several tire manufacturers that produce DOT-R tires, and we will review some of those here that we have direct experience with. Also, if you are thinking of using DOT-R tires on your car, and you want to compete in some race series (either autocrossing or road racing), make sure to check the rules before you jump in. Most series have strict rules on which tires are allowed to be used, or will allocate points against you if your run DOT-R tires, and you should also make sure you understand what that series defines as DOT-R tires….as they do not define them all the same (it used to be that an easy rule was that DOT-R tires were tires w a durometer reading of less than 150….but not the case anymore).

Toyo R888 (rating = )

This is one of our favorite track tires. Very predictable, great grip, little squeal at the limit, very progressive break-away (this is a huge point to us as you learn the limits of your driving and your car), fair price (for a DOT-R tire), and they generally can last quite a long time (we have seen them last for a whole year, meaning about 6 – 8 track days or full heat cycles….but, do not judge their life by simply looking at the amount of tread left….be very aware of heat cycles on track tires…..we had a set of Toyo R888’s that had seen 6 track days, and still had a good amount of tread left, but would have come apart if used for one more track day, as the inner wall had broken down due to the number of heat cycles the tires had seen).

Hoosier R6 (rating = 10)

This is the pinnacle of track tires….they produce amazing amounts of grip, they are very forgiving, very predictable break away. If you want fast times….these are the best you can do. But, these will NOT last long, and with their price, they will produce a death grip on your bank account (they are like a drug…you won’t be able to live without them once you make the plunge to use them….so, tread lightly here).

BFGoodrich g-Force R1 (rating = 6)

This is a very good track tire. Great amount of grip….but, before you go slap a set of these on your car, you better ensure you either rank yourself as one of the best drivers on the track, or you have an amazing track insurance policy for your car, and you don’t care if you wrap your car around a concrete barrier. They produce the grip, but when they decide to let go…..woo baby…..your gone. No notice, no change in squeal or noise or feel….just woops…..and hang on. Very stiff sidewall means you can drive these tires very hard….but they are a very hard tire to drive hard and fast. You’ve been warned.

Michelin Pilot Sport CUP (rating = 7)

Great tire, and if you’re looking for a tire to get you to the track and back, and take the abuse at the track as well….then this is your friend. Everyone knows you mean business when you have a set of these on the car, and they are very predictable, produce good amounts of grip, but you best qualify for the AMEX unlimited credit line if you want to use these regularly. They are great….but greatness comes at a price.

Yokohoma Advan A048 (rating = 5)

This is the brother to the tire that BRracing first raced on, for our whole first season. At the time, we thought the tire to be great. Fair price, lasted quite a long time, produced good amounts of grip….but I think we were turned onto these tires by one of our competitors…..as they had some nasty elements to them, and no one told us. This is still true w the new generation of the Yokohoma tire. Good grip. but they squeal at the limit, and they also do NOT have a progressive break away. But, if you want to learn drifting and car control, then sign yourself up to a set of these…and hang on.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

Interesting article here by BR Racing:

Tires – Which ones for track duty?

Even with the great progression tires have made over the last period of years, the OEM and high performance tires are really no match for the track. Or, you have a decision to make….destroy a perfectly good set of street tires every time you go to the track, and still not have the right set you need for the abuse that gets dished out at the track. You wanted to go to the track to drive fast….and the tires can either be the biggest help, or the biggest hinderance….your choice. But, if you decide to get a set of dedicated track tires….which ones?

We will put tires into three categories.

- high performance street tires (max performance, or max summer performance)

- DOT-R tires (street legal, but really dedicated track tires)

- Racing slicks (NOT street legal, and really only for racing cars that have suspension that can handle the loads that will be generated)

As we stated in the opening, most high performance street tires are just that, high performance street tires. So, our focus will be on the DOT-R track tires. These are very sticky, track oriented tires. They are DOT street legal, and many track users commute to the track and back with them on the car, and then switch back to their street tires when they return home. But, they are certainly not tires you would ever want to be caught on the street with if any rain arrived……oh no (think of driving on ice and you have the right picture).

So, you now want a set of track tires….but which ones? There are several tire manufacturers that produce DOT-R tires, and we will review some of those here that we have direct experience with. Also, if you are thinking of using DOT-R tires on your car, and you want to compete in some race series (either autocrossing or road racing), make sure to check the rules before you jump in. Most series have strict rules on which tires are allowed to be used, or will allocate points against you if your run DOT-R tires, and you should also make sure you understand what that series defines as DOT-R tires….as they do not define them all the same (it used to be that an easy rule was that DOT-R tires were tires w a durometer reading of less than 150….but not the case anymore).

Toyo R888 (rating = )

This is one of our favorite track tires. Very predictable, great grip, little squeal at the limit, very progressive break-away (this is a huge point to us as you learn the limits of your driving and your car), fair price (for a DOT-R tire), and they generally can last quite a long time (we have seen them last for a whole year, meaning about 6 – 8 track days or full heat cycles….but, do not judge their life by simply looking at the amount of tread left….be very aware of heat cycles on track tires…..we had a set of Toyo R888’s that had seen 6 track days, and still had a good amount of tread left, but would have come apart if used for one more track day, as the inner wall had broken down due to the number of heat cycles the tires had seen).

Hoosier R6 (rating = 10)

This is the pinnacle of track tires….they produce amazing amounts of grip, they are very forgiving, very predictable break away. If you want fast times….these are the best you can do. But, these will NOT last long, and with their price, they will produce a death grip on your bank account (they are like a drug…you won’t be able to live without them once you make the plunge to use them….so, tread lightly here).

BFGoodrich g-Force R1 (rating = 6)

This is a very good track tire. Great amount of grip….but, before you go slap a set of these on your car, you better ensure you either rank yourself as one of the best drivers on the track, or you have an amazing track insurance policy for your car, and you don’t care if you wrap your car around a concrete barrier. They produce the grip, but when they decide to let go…..woo baby…..your gone. No notice, no change in squeal or noise or feel….just woops…..and hang on. Very stiff sidewall means you can drive these tires very hard….but they are a very hard tire to drive hard and fast. You’ve been warned.

Michelin Pilot Sport CUP (rating = 7)

Great tire, and if you’re looking for a tire to get you to the track and back, and take the abuse at the track as well….then this is your friend. Everyone knows you mean business when you have a set of these on the car, and they are very predictable, produce good amounts of grip, but you best qualify for the AMEX unlimited credit line if you want to use these regularly. They are great….but greatness comes at a price.

Yokohoma Advan A048 (rating = 5)

This is the brother to the tire that BRracing first raced on, for our whole first season. At the time, we thought the tire to be great. Fair price, lasted quite a long time, produced good amounts of grip….but I think we were turned onto these tires by one of our competitors…..as they had some nasty elements to them, and no one told us. This is still true w the new generation of the Yokohoma tire. Good grip. but they squeal at the limit, and they also do NOT have a progressive break away. But, if you want to learn drifting and car control, then sign yourself up to a set of these…and hang on.

What car were these on to form these ratings?Who is BR Racing?I cannot beleive anybody actually likes 888's on a heavy car!

[rzm3]

Here's their blog:

http://brrperformance.com/blog/

[lucid]

BFG R1s do start squeeling slightly before they give. They are not as binary as they make them to be. You do get some kind of warning.

[JC919]

I was looking at a set of Hoosier R6s for my next track tires since my NT01s have a bout one track day left. Thanks rldzhao for the info, I'll definitely be going with those R6s now.

[lucid]

You need to take care of the Hoosiers. Don't make them plow. They won't take prolonged abuse, but they are really sweet--especially on the first day.

[von_zoom]

I concure with the "That is complete nonesense." I have run BFG R1s for several years, and I would think that I run them as hard as anyone, and with a 3600 pound car. Nothing but the highest praise from me. And, yes, I can get them to squeel, and over and under steer, but I have never had the car "take off" so that I had to "hold on for the ride." Good bet for the track is all I can say.
vz

[V1.47fan]

DOT-R tires,you said?
I got a set of R888's for less than $850(255/35-18's:275/35-18's), exceeded my expectations,I knew they weren't going to be at the hosier A6's level but still better performance than the AD08's.

Keep in mind,the R888 255's run about the same size as the AD08 255's where the 275's on the other hand run about 20mm wider than the 275 AD08's.

This will create some understeer,I solve this by running 3 to 4 psi higher in the rear tires and 1/8" toe in (about 0.28 degrees).

I know I don't have the lightest wheels in the world but I have to stay within my budget. Like others mentioned,very streetable.