Who out there misses a raw car feel or still owns one?

[eatsleepboost]

I have been reading alot of threads on here comparing the e9x m3 to the newer f8x m3 and how many feel the e9x to have more road feel and connection. I came out of an evo and into my e92 m3 and the car is wayyyyy less raw. I find the car a bit too disconnected and tame but now that I went S/C I do enjoy the car but don't get the race car feel. I find myself at times missing having a throttle cable and a twin disc clutch without a dual mass flywheel where the shifts bang into the next gear. I do miss the road noise as well. Never did I complain or dislike the turbo lag either. It's just the calm before the storm. Once that 29 psi I was running hit the feeling was unmatched. I don't need all of this sound deadening in the m3 either.

With all that said I plan to keep my m3 for sure but in another year or so I plan to begin my search for another evo or similar raw car. The kid of car that after putting a couple hundred miles on it you need a break from it.

There must be other out there who feel the same...


Edit.. The evo I am mentioning was an 03 Evo 8. The evo 10's to me got rid of the raw feeling as well. Especially the automatic.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

I have been reading alot of threads on here comparing the e9x m3 to the newer f8x m3 and how many feel the e9x to have more road feel and connection. I came out of an evo and into my e92 m3 and the car is wayyyyy less raw. I find the car a bit too disconnected and tame but now that I went S/C I do enjoy the car but don't get the race car feel. I find myself at times missing having a throttle cable and a twin disc clutch without a dual mass flywheel where the shifts bang into the next gear. I do miss the road noise as well. Never did I complain or dislike the turbo lag either. It's just the calm before the storm. Once that 29 psi I was running hit the feeling was unmatched. I don't need all of this sound deadening in the m3 either.

With all that said I plan to keep my m3 for sure but in another year or so I plan to begin my search for another evo or similar raw car. The kid of car that after putting a couple hundred miles on it you need a break from it.

There must be other out there who feel the same...

Look at an e36 or e46 M3. I love driving my '97 more than my 650i. Beautiful 3.2L inline 6. No electronic steering or drive my wire. Complete analog driving. I have 87k miles on her and will never get rid of her. I loved my e92 since I felt it was the best all around M3, but it can't compare to the pure driving dynamics of the aforementioned duo.

[EnVe46]

I love everything about my E90, but yes, I do miss my old E46 Competition slicktop in manual for that exact reason. I had that car 6 months and it took me about 1.5 to really feel comfortable without any of the driver interference stuff active, I just felt connected to the car and heal/toe was incredibly rewarding. That car was raw enough to give that feeling you're describing while being a great highway car and comfortable. If it came in 4 doors, Id probably still be in that chassis....

All that said, I absolutely LOVE my E90!!! The sound, feel and features make DD'ing very easy and comfortable. Then give it all its got and enjoy the 450+hp

[RABAUKE]

.

[eatsleepboost]

Haywood I certainly will look into those as my current BMW is the only one I have owned. Really would love to drive those cars. People on here certainly speak highly of them.

Yea Enve I hear u on that. Enjoying the new and ease of daily driving but miss the prior generation.

Rabauke what model Porsche is that? I was a mechanic at a Chevy/ caddy dealer for years and was into jap cars. Gotta admit my German car knowledge isn't good enough to identify many of these cars.

[jcrane82]

Pick up a clean E36 M3 before it is too late.

[Darth One]

i always want to have a car in my stable that is "raw" and (bimmerpost favorite word alert)..."visceral". i think the only difference in my definition and the OP's is that mine needs to be naturally aspirated.

currently that role is filled for me by a 997 GT3, although i also have a GT4 and a M4 GTS. but the latter two, are not as 'raw' as the GT3. Mezger's magic dust still rules!

[Dlpfcb]

Agree with the E46 M. Great all around car, gives you the raw feeling. A set of coilovers completely changes the dynamic and is a blast to drive. I was blessed enough to still have it, my winter car is the E46 and the E92 is my summer car.

[RM7]

This

[Red Bread]

Either M Coupe. Makes an M3 feel like a Lincoln.

[induc916]

Thats exactly why i went and built up my 1993 Rx7 FD -

http://www.banzai-racing.com/2017_cu...manets_smp.htm

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by induc916

Thats exactly why i went and built up my 1993 Rx7 FD -

http://www.banzai-racing.com/2017_cu...manets_smp.htm

Very nice. My dad just sold his, sorry to see it go.

[wdb]

Last time I had a raw car feel it was 1971 and I was driving my girlfriend's mom's Super Beetle. Damned near drove up a telephone pole.

[inTgr8r]

eatsleepboost
Best of both worlds....

The Z4MC done right is definitely a raw drivers car

[wdb]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

The Z4MC done right is definitely a raw drivers car

Not really. Unless you make it into a track beast, then maybe. In the 70s i had a Mini in which, I swear, I could tell the brand of cigarette butt as it rolled over them. M a r l b o r o. My Moupe is a wonderful thing and omigod SO a drivers car, but raw? Eh. Not so much.

[Ali Shiralian]

I have 90 Miata, mechanically all original that I love to take for a spin every once in a while

[xQx]

eatsleepboost I hate to say it, but that's kinda what the M3 has become.

It sounds like you need a Lotus Elise, Caterham or a pre-modified Mazda MX5 (that's a Miata for your US folk) for a year or two, then you can come back to the M3 and appreciate things like heated seats, air conditioning, electric windows, cruise control, and V8 torque.

I have often harbor aspirations of something smaller and faster, but I suspect I'm underestimating how much I'd miss the creature comforts and instant torque you get in our cars.

[Ali Shiralian]

Originally Posted by xQx

eatsleepboost I hate to say it, but that's kinda what the M3 has become.

It sounds like you need a Lotus Elise, Caterham or a pre-modified Mazda MX5 (that's a Miata for your US folk) for a year or two, then you can come back to the M3 and appreciate things like heated seats, air conditioning, electric windows, cruise control, and V8 torque.

I have often harbor aspirations of something smaller and faster, but I suspect I'm underestimating how much I'd miss the creature comforts and instant torque you get in our cars.

Sometimes it's fun to drive a car with no power steering, power windows and air conditioning to get a feel what driving is all about. All those cars that you mentioned above should be the 3rd or forth car 👍

[10"]

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

I have been reading alot of threads on here comparing the e9x m3 to the newer f8x m3 and how many feel the e9x to have more road feel and connection. I came out of an evo and into my e92 m3 and the car is wayyyyy less raw. I find the car a bit too disconnected and tame but now that I went S/C I do enjoy the car but don't get the race car feel. I find myself at times missing having a throttle cable and a twin disc clutch without a dual mass flywheel where the shifts bang into the next gear. I do miss the road noise as well. Never did I complain or dislike the turbo lag either. It's just the calm before the storm. Once that 29 psi I was running hit the feeling was unmatched. I don't need all of this sound deadening in the m3 either.

With all that said I plan to keep my m3 for sure but in another year or so I plan to begin my search for another evo or similar raw car. The kid of car that after putting a couple hundred miles on it you need a break from it.

There must be other out there who feel the same...


Edit.. The evo I am mentioning was an 03 Evo 8. The evo 10's to me got rid of the raw feeling as well. Especially the automatic.

Everything is relative. The Evo 8 was a great car but wouldn't be considered raw compared to japanese sports cars of the 60s or 70s. Additionally the Evo 8 was made for an entirely different segment of cars than the E9X M3. They can't really be compared directly as the M3 was a premium sporty car made for an upscale segment and the Evo 8 was made for younger enthusiasts who may not need refinement.

My 1M is considered to be the most 'raw' modern M car at least in the past 10-15 years and it definitely is...but when compared to an E30 M3 it's not. Then again the E30 M3 is not as raw as a 2002 Turbo. You get my point.

Personally i think the 1M and for that matter the E90/E92 M3 hit a sweet spot of driving satisfaction vs. modernity. I have been able to successfully raise our almost 3 year old son ONLY using the 1M as our only car. He takes naps in it, we take family in it, etc. I wouldn't have wanted to do that in the herky-jerk-fest which is the Evo 8. Therein lies the point though; BMW always made performance cars which can be used every day for every reason and M cars have always struck a lovely point at which sport meets useability and comfort. They are not meant to be anything more or less.

[eatsleepboost]

Darth, that's quite a stable. Would love to have a setup like that.

Dlpfcb, I gotta look into the e46M. I may just make my way over to that forum for a bit to educate myself.

James, I have alot of experience as I am a certified GM tech. The Camaro doesn't do it for me. I am more of a Corvette guy.

Induc, you hit the nail on the head for things I typically like and I think is what I want to get back into. Man I love that car. Great build. I ran the exedy twin on a high boost car so I can imagine how fun that thing is. Thanks for sharing.

Intgr, I have been in a bunch of z4's but never driven one. I like the idea of a small 2 seater.

Ali, I know a couple people that have stockish miatas too that just cruise them once in a while. Certainly a possibility and more affordable than others I have in mind which helps.

Xqx, I am keeping my M and my daily. I am saying for a 3rd car. I don't need ac etc in a 3rd car. I agree though the m does check all the comfort boxes and is still fun. Just a little tame for my liking even with s/c.

[wrecked2001]

Just bought a 73 240z. Complete rebuild and restomod is the plan. Either a Sr20det with a NEO vvl head or a RB 26/25 is the engine plan.

[Lucky1]

Z4 M has already been called out as "not raw" but in comparison to my 128i it certainly feels that way by modern BMW standards. Love it but could never have it as my only DD because when the top is up the tire and especially exhaust noise comes right into the cabin and drives me nuts. Top down no issue. Hope the coupe is better at keeping the exhaust noise out of the cabin.

So in that sense a raw car might drive me nuts as a DD. Having two cars is nice; my only thing is I prefer them to be close in performance otherwise I fall asleep in the "slow" car