2011 ZCP M3 clicking noise

[KJM3]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

So I just talked to my service guy. They are replacing the bed plate, which is what holds the crank in the bottom of the engine. I asked if they could check the bearings when they had it out. I also told him that the two people on this board who had this done said it didn't fix the noise. They already have it apart, so we're locked in. I guess we'll see.

There's a part of me that hopes the 24 year old tech who will be tearing apart my engine forgets to torque down a few bolts and the engine detonates when I get it back

The lower part of the crankcase (that elmariachi posted pics of) that holds the bearings usually cannot be just swapped out between different engines. When the engine is new the main bearing bores are honed within .0001" with that in place and bolts torqued without the crank in there naturally. The bearing crush and clearance has to be close to perfect otherwise you will have some serious issues.

Unless BMW has figured out a way to interchange main caps between engines without machining, which I doubt, they are replacing something else.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by KJM3

The lower part of the crankcase (that elmariachi posted pics of) that holds the bearings usually cannot be just swapped out between different engines. When the engine is new the main bearing bores are honed within .0001" with that in place and bolts torqued without the crank in there naturally. The bearing crush and clearance has to be close to perfect otherwise you will have some serious issues.

Unless BMW has figured out a way to interchange main caps between engines without machining, which I doubt, they are replacing something else.

That's what I was thinking... it doesn't seem interchangeable. But I guess we'll see. I'm guessing if they screw this up, though, it will be pretty obvious. I gave them permission to have the shop foreman drive my car home and back after the work is complete... around 80 miles. I figure if something is jacked up, he can find out then. Seems like an ok deal considering I've put about 1000 miles on their loaner and I get a free oil change. We'll see what happens. If they screw it up, I'll start making some serious demands, but in the meantime, I'm just gonna hope for the best.

[Lodaka]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

That's what I was thinking... it doesn't seem interchangeable. But I guess we'll see. I'm guessing if they screw this up, though, it will be pretty obvious. I gave them permission to have the shop foreman drive my car home and back after the work is complete... around 80 miles. I figure if something is jacked up, he can find out then. Seems like an ok deal considering I've put about 1000 miles on their loaner and I get a free oil change. We'll see what happens. If they screw it up, I'll start making some serious demands, but in the meantime, I'm just gonna hope for the best.

Yea, the service manager offered this too; I just said I will let him know if the bottom falls out...

So, I brought my car back to the dealership and it will stay there for a few days again. I am nore longer frustrated but I find this a little comical now. Hehe. Or, maybe I am just going insane.

[KJM3]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

That's what I was thinking... it doesn't seem interchangeable. But I guess we'll see. I'm guessing if they screw this up, though, it will be pretty obvious. I gave them permission to have the shop foreman drive my car home and back after the work is complete... around 80 miles. I figure if something is jacked up, he can find out then. Seems like an ok deal considering I've put about 1000 miles on their loaner and I get a free oil change. We'll see what happens. If they screw it up, I'll start making some serious demands, but in the meantime, I'm just gonna hope for the best.

Who knows, if they are not pulling the engine out than I have no idea what they are talking replacing the bed plate. I can see them removing it and putting it back on with the engine in the car but not replacing it.

The bearings are right there so if there was a bearing problem they should see it. Hopefully it works out for you.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by Lodaka

Yea, the service manager offered this too; I just said I will let him know if the bottom falls out...

So, I brought my car back to the dealership and it will stay there for a few days again. I am nore longer frustrated but I find this a little comical now. Hehe. Or, maybe I am just going insane.

Hahahaha... Well at least you have your sense of humor... or you really are going crazy

I feel you on caring less... WORST case scenario, in my mind, is they totally eff it up and I either get a new engine or my $ back. Neither would be the end of the world. And in the meantime, I'm extending my warranty by driving their car. I feel like such an optimist!

[Lodaka]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Hahahaha... Well at least you have your sense of humor... or you really are going crazy

I feel you on caring less... WORST case scenario, in my mind, is they totally eff it up and I either get a new engine or my $ back. Neither would be the end of the world. And in the meantime, I'm extending my warranty by driving their car. I feel like such an optimist!

Yea, no need to beat myself up for this. In the meantime, I will enjoy their loaner. They didn't tell me what it was and I don't want to ask. It will be my surprise of the day today!

[satinghostrider]

Man this sucks ass. If it is really bearing problems. I hope for everyone's sake it is not it at all.

[jdgamble]

Any updates on clicking M3's? Mine is still at the dealership... 2 weeks and counting. Haven't called for an update in a while.

[MasterDank]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Any updates on clicking M3's? Mine is still at the dealership... 2 weeks and counting. Haven't called for an update in a while.

Got mine back with the noise still there little quieter but still there.. Im in Hawaii and my dealership wont do anything else till BMW tells them.. So im just driving around my time bomb.

[jdgamble]

Got mine back the other night... Couple hard drives and no clicking. The work order said something kinda interesting... "BMW-recommended re-torquing procedure for stabilization plate" or something to that effect. It also referenced a TSB. Forgive me for my lack of accurate details... I didn't drive the M3 to work today. Just thought it was interesting that BMW has some pretty detailed documentation on this but my dealership (supposedly the largest volume in So Cal) didn't have a clue about it. Sounds like a great training program!

Either way, I'm glad the car is quiet for now.

[wrh3]

Would you post the TSB number? I can provide a link to the TSB if I have the number

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by wrh3

Would you post the TSB number? I can provide a link to the TSB if I have the number

Yeah I'll check the paperwork tonight

[jdgamble]

Ok so here's the details...

PUMA case 35680065
Engine bedplate main bolt re-torque procedure (11 41 050, plus 11 21 500 without necessary preliminary tasks)

So I guess those aren't TSB's... just procedures. In my previous post, I said stabilization plate, but I read that wrong... my work order says they removed a stiffening plate (external) and could still hear the noise. Either way, the sad thing is that after my drive to work this morning, I could hear the ticking again. I'm gonna check it out this afternoon in the garage. I smell another trip to the dealer.

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Ok so here's the details...

PUMA case 35680065
Engine bedplate main bolt re-torque procedure (11 41 050, plus 11 21 500 without necessary preliminary tasks)

So I guess those aren't TSB's... just procedures. In my previous post, I said stabilization plate, but I read that wrong... my work order says they removed a stiffening plate (external) and could still hear the noise. Either way, the sad thing is that after my drive to work this morning, I could hear the ticking again. I'm gonna check it out this afternoon in the garage. I smell another trip to the dealer.

Like what everyone else says, if it is a bearing problem, all this torque bullshit is not going to change the fact that the sound will disappear.
Look here another 2011 who apparently has been approved for a new engine due to possible bearing problems.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457227

I say fight with your dealer for it. I think the dealers are playing up to this one as another bearing issue is not going to look good on BMW at all. And especially after having the main bearings changed after 10/2008 and still having this problem, I'd say you have to make your firm stand as the more issues they are with bearings, the more cover-up. It's absolutely bullshit that some people are getting different treatments and solutions for the same sound.

[bunny]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Just thought it was interesting that BMW has some pretty detailed documentation on this but my dealership (supposedly the largest volume in So Cal) didn't have a clue about it. Sounds like a great training program!

Which dealership did you take it to? I hate that I stumbled upon this thread as well. I'm pretty sure there have a few times when I've heard clicking noise coming from my car, but I thought it was normal. I'm gonna have to look into it a bit more now. To be honest, I don't like the idea of my brand new car getting ripped apart while they try different things to fix it. I'm going to follow this thread a bit more to see what others have to say about their issues before I worry too much.

Thanks to everyone for all of the info.

[wrh3]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Ok so here's the details...

11 41 050, plus 11 21 500

Those show up in TIS as follows:

11 41 050 is the R&R process for the oil pump (and adjustments to spec)

11 21 500 is replacement of the crankshaft

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Like what everyone else says, if it is a bearing problem, all this torque bullshit is not going to change the fact that the sound will disappear.
Look here another 2011 who apparently has been approved for a new engine due to possible bearing problems.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457227

I say fight with your dealer for it. I think the dealers are playing up to this one as another bearing issue is not going to look good on BMW at all. And especially after having the main bearings changed after 10/2008 and still having this problem, I'd say you have to make your firm stand as the more issues they are with bearings, the more cover-up. It's absolutely bullshit that some people are getting different treatments and solutions for the same sound.

That's me on the other thread. Good looking out though.

Originally Posted by bunny

Which dealership did you take it to? I hate that I stumbled upon this thread as well. I'm pretty sure there have a few times when I've heard clicking noise coming from my car, but I thought it was normal. I'm gonna have to look into it a bit more now. To be honest, I don't like the idea of my brand new car getting ripped apart while they try different things to fix it. I'm going to follow this thread a bit more to see what others have to say about their issues before I worry too much.

Thanks to everyone for all of the info.

It's at Crevier. The ticking is very distinctive but kinda subtle... totally repeatable in a closed garage when the engine is warm. This is not top end ticking... that's just valvetrain noise. This comes from the oil pan area.

I just posted on another thread... Crevier is waiting on authorization for a new engine. Good times.

Originally Posted by wrh3

Those show up in TIS as follows:

11 41 050 is the R&R process for the oil pump (and adjustments to spec)

11 21 500 is replacement of the crankshaft

Really? I think they just noted it wrong then. There's no way they replaced my crankshaft. They just did the re-torque. They even sent me pics where I could see the bottom of the crank, but they didn't even remove the bedplate. Good info though.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

New bearings were introduced in 10/08, meaning some early '09s have the old bearings. But forget about that man; learned one '10 and another '11 M3s have the typical bad bearing engine noise on a recent thread. That's freaking unbelievable.

I also question the use of 10/60 oil for all climates. Both Ferrari and Lamborghini, with even higher strung engines, with higher specific outputs and higher redlines, spec 5/40 oil, just like all Porsches (and most sportbikes). TWS is like molasses, especially in cold climates. My only explanation is crappy tolerances. But why BMW didn't make it 5/60 is even more puzzling. Lamborghini recommends 20/50 (most owners use M1 15/50) for track use, and up to 0/30 (most owners use 5/40) for cold climates. Would love to hear BMW's technical explanation for that oil, rather than their marketing crap. I'm going to keep using it because with crappy tolerances
you need it, or risk bearing damage, like it happened to S54s, but there's no need for such an extreme grade, proven by all other exotic engine manufacturers using 5/40. Take care.

The car in question is in CA. Have you asked yourself why the M3 doesn't come with all season tires?

Lambos,Ferrari are in a different class,closer to a real race car. Most M3s are parked inside anyway in cold wx areas to need oil thiner than 10w,for cold starts if parked outside when temps are below freezing.
And the lifters clicking sound under a 5w oil when the engine is cold will make a lot of angry M3 owners thinking their engines are goin kaput.hahaha
5w 60 and 10w 60 have the same hot viscosity, the engine will maintain around 210 oil temp even in cold weather. The s65 would handle thicker oil better in cold weather than a thin oil like 0w 30 in hot wx on the track. It's all about compromising,well! Now I'm just repeating myself.hahaha

[newowner35i]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Has anyone experienced a clicking noise from the motor? Seems to be on the left side in the wheel well area. I hear it when I pull in my garage and come to a stop. It does not sound right? This is my 9th M3 and consider myself to be in tune with my car. My 2008 M3 Sedan did not make this noise. Has anyone else had this problem? I have 4,700 miles.

. You need to break the engine so it stops my friend has one and it stop after 3 k

[jdgamble]

Little update. I just got a call from my SA. Rather than replace the whole engine, they only got authorized to replace the crankshaft and bearings. They are waiting on parts.

Last guy (^)... I think you might want to do a little reading

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Little update. I just got a call from my SA. Rather than replace the whole engine, they only got authorized to replace the crankshaft and bearings. They are waiting on parts.

Last guy (^)... I think you might want to do a little reading

That sucks. I never would trust any dealer to do that. Not when this is BMW's problem. They should have just replaced the engine. Save the hassle and any form off unnecessary problems while tearing the engine down.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Little update. I just got a call from my SA. Rather than replace the whole engine, they only got authorized to replace the crankshaft and bearings. They are waiting on parts.

Last guy (^)... I think you might want to do a little reading

Please ask to see the crank and original bearings.

It would be really great if you could get some pictures of the crank journals and bearing shells. If this noise is indeed noise from a crank or rod bearing(s), wear on the bearings and journals would be very apparent.