I'm not convinced...

[drrust]

Originally Posted by AAliVEE

I will never change the rod bearings, if the engine goes tits up i will let you know, and if that happens i will take care of it, today at aprox 70 000km ofcourse going strong as ever ��

It's all relative. If you aren't modding like mad, then don't worry about it. If you're willing to drop more than the cost of a bearing job for a mod, then you may want to think twice. Keep the cost in perspective to other PMs or known issues (Throttle Actuators). Cost of a spun bearing is considerably more.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1325305

There was no update as to the cost to address this specific case.

I replaced mine at 109,000 miles. No gross copper, but some uneven wear. My suspicion is that there more than just tight clearances, maybe rod deformation or other issue.

[burnrbr]

Originally Posted by monterey

I think this engine makes me rev higher than i normally would. Most engines tend to flat line so there's no need to go above 6k but this car just pulls non stop. I think if you were to redline any car on a regular basis you would see the same kind of failures. Imho

Plenty of Hondas redline higher than 6k and some of them have aftermarket turbo kits. I haven't heard any rod issues with them.

[burnrbr]

A Mitsubishi 4G63 with upgraded cams, valvetrain and a big turbo will do 500 whp from 2 liters at 8500 rpm. That is 1500 rpm higher than stock with no issues to a stock block or rotating assembly. Imagine 1000 whp from our 4 liter. I love my M3 and will replace the rod bearings at some point. I do know that the rod bearings have abnormal wear compared to other manufacturers. If you doubt it, just research other engines with mods and track time from other manufacturers.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by burnrbr

Domestic V8s are commonly supercharged, fill up with the same gas as the rest of us and don't have these issues. Not a lot of the supercharged domestic V8s are track rats so they don't incur the same heat levels. Albeit, they do drag/power pull a lot. Maybe the rod bearing issues on the E46 M3 is a over blown, too.

I'm saying if an e92 is supercharged, it has a higher chance of bearing issues, because it was never meant to have FI.

Fuel means that if you consistently fill up at quickie Mart with crap gas, again, you have better chances of getting an issue.

As for anything else, you have no basis to say American cars have no issues. They've had plenty over the years. Look up the new Z06. Every car has an issue.

[MBYTE]

Originally Posted by Rat3d ///M

My only thought is how no matter how bad or good the bearings look when someone pulls them out, the response is always "oh man looks like you got those out of there just in time. those look terrible". Overhyped issue is causing me to have a hard time selling my car. Can't tell you how many people messaged me asking if I've changed the rod bearings first thing they say.

- Didn't BMW recall the E46 for rod bearings?
- They wont admit it on the S65 - but two class actions have been tried so far, on the S65
- A batch of the BMW RR1000 sport bikes were recalled - for rod bearing issues

I know of two Major tuners that wont SC a S65 without Rod Bearing replacement - and they actually care about their reputations more than a few sales is why they do it, so they don't get blamed for a BMW design flaw on enough of these to see daylight, they Require it. What other things are Required by tuners on a street car. Maybe a lot, I don't hear about it though.

My S65 motor ejected engine parts at around 54k mile - 100% stock. From perfect to dead in 3 min or less. I never even heard any noise, my wife said she did, but she doesn't know enough about cars to tell me PULL OVER NOW, YOU ARE SPINNING A BEARING. It the motor was gone by that point anyway. They don't walk that off; or get better from that.. I am actually glad I didn't hear it as if it didn't make that nice hole in the block. The dealer would have wanted I am sure close to 2k to tear it down to diagnose it. Now they had a stiffening plate full of parts and a hole for the flashlight. And I am not joking, it was ruining perfect and had been to two BMW dealers and a BMW independent in my last month of CPO, as well i it was in its last month of CPO. Perfect bill of health from three different BMW shops.

I fought with BMW for 4+ months to get a favor of only paying them half of the 26k they list a re-manufactured S65 for - with my take offs for my issues on a engine with 54k miles and a car around 4-months out of CPO. (time vs. miles) If a S65 fails, and people don't get one off of ebay, BMW is asking $26,000 for a re manufactured S65 - using your take offs. So I am glad they ask you.

But there is more. I had already bought a used S65 from Ebay - so I sold that to a major turner at a giant loss. And just as I wanted to know- I asked them when they replaced the rod bearings, to send me some pics of the wear The motor had 35k on it, the major tuner showed me pics it was about to spin those rod bearings too. IF they didn't force the rod bearing replacements, that S65 that looked brand new almost on the outside and new SC it was getting would have eaten itself - and everyone would have said Tuner X, SC kits blow up S65's... Are you wondering why they were buying my extra S65? Yep another blown S65 - a customer replacement motor.

And More:
Another S65 was in the dealer across town with rod bearings issues while mine was down

And More:
All most all of my upgrades on my E90 now, came from a guy that had his S65 rod bearings go - but he was lucky and BMW covered it 100% and he jumped ship after he got it back to a M4.

One thing that confused me for a long time was why some got nothing from BMW, some were fixed for free and some like me got a discount. (scope - all out of warranty) So this may help some one that comes across this - trying to guess their outcome with BMW. I was told off the record that it really depends on if you you are the original owner and bought it new. I'll call that best chance, then your outcomes likely go down from there. Someone smarter than me shared a important thing one a post like this that I found to be true in my case, you will also likely get out of the experience with about as much as you can, proportional to the amount of effort you put in. I spent 4-months plus with no car, making payments and my car was lawn art fighting with BMW to only pay them 50% of the cost I paid for car for a re-manufactured engine. Then eat a big loss selling the 1st used engine I bought as the BMW deal was better as it included install and 2-year warranty. If you every find yourself feeling lucky you only had to pay 50% more for your car then the initial purchase, and feel lucky - you might understand. To those BMW gave nothing... I really feel bad for them.

I hope this is over reported, it's not like the history, experiences, or even the evidence exists enough that two class actions have been tried just for the S65 rod bearings. And I don't mean were thinking about it. The last one I know about was far enough along that BMW and the lawyers were before a judge. But I am sure the lawyers were going to take on BMW for a super small amount of impacted people, at a class action level. You know what BMW was using to try and have the judge dismiss it? The named plaintiffs should not be allowed to represent the/a class as the class would be outside of that state. Not necessarily that it wasn't a issue, just that it shouldn't include the ability to include people from all states.

So I am glad they ask you. You can buy my NIB VAC/ARP set on ebay and save $200 in parts plus and tell them it's included in a box in the trunk with sale.

I will close with this, for all the lucky people that I hope are never impacted by this. My motor spun a bearing and exited parts out of the block on the highway, in a dark section, dumping 6 or more of its liters of oil on the dark highway. Would you want your mom, or sister, or brother on a motorcycle hitting that oil slick in the dark at 75MPH? (the speed limit where it happened) When I expressed the danger of that much oil dumping on the highway - I was told "that was not their problem as it was out of CPO," by BMW.

So I am not aiming this at anyone in particular - but for all the people that think this is hype - maybe you are just lucky. If you become unlucky, and BMW wont budge - like it took me 4-months to get them to - you might get a 26k bill. Or you could spend around 2k and have them changed to be safe - or you can just think lucky thoughts and I really do hope this never happens to any M3 owner. Unless you confuse luck for skill and mislead someone else in to a 26k bill - then I hope it hits you first.

[burnrbr]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I'm saying if an e92 is supercharged, it has a higher chance of bearing issues, because it was never meant to have FI.

Fuel means that if you consistently fill up at quickie Mart with crap gas, again, you have better chances of getting an issue.

As for anything else, you have no basis to say American cars have no issues. They've had plenty over the years. Look up the new Z06. Every car has an issue.

I did not say that America cars have no issues. I said they don't have the issues that are being discussed in this thread which are the rod bearing issue and to a lesser degree the throttle actuator issue.

I agree with you that every car has at least one issue; some more catastrophic than others. I purchased my M3 after extensive research on the known issues. I have replaced my throttle actuator gears with upgrades from alpina527 from UK cutters. I plan to replace my rod bearings when my oil analysis indicates I should. I even have a spare DCT with 30k miles on it sitting in my garage ready to swap in. I know the DCT isn't a prevalent issue, but my M3 is my daily driver, they can't be rebuilt at this time and $11k for a new one is bit uncomfortable for me.

My point is the OP isn't convinced, but there are plenty of relevant threads with real examples of failures that are not common, might even say unheard-of, in non-BMW engines.

[SDPLV]

So far, it's been two class action lawsuits...and one small claims suit for $10k that BMW decided it was not even worth showing up to. That judgement went in favor of one of our forum members who spun a bearing.

RB replacement can now be considered a one-time after-market preventative fix. I went into my M3 purchase knowing I'd be spending that money.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by MBYTE

- Didn't BMW recall the E46 for rod bearings?
- They wont admit it on the S65 - but two class actions have been tried so far, on the S65
- A batch of the BMW RR1000 sport bikes were recalled - for rod bearing issues

I know of two Major tuners that wont SC a S65 without Rod Bearing replacement - and they actually care about their reputations more than a few sales is why they do it, so they don't get blamed for a BMW design flaw on enough of these to see daylight, they Require it. What other things are Required by tuners on a street car. Maybe a lot, I don't hear about it though.

My S65 motor ejected engine parts at around 54k mile - 100% stock. From perfect to dead in 3 min or less. I never even heard any noise, my wife said she did, but she doesn't know enough about cars to tell me PULL OVER NOW, YOU ARE SPINNING A BEARING. It the motor was gone by that point anyway. They don't walk that off; or get better from that.. I am actually glad I didn't hear it as if it didn't make that nice hole in the block. The dealer would have wanted I am sure close to 2k to tear it down to diagnose it. Now they had a stiffening plate full of parts and a hole for the flashlight. And I am not joking, it was ruining perfect and had been to two BMW dealers and a BMW independent in my last month of CPO, as well i it was in its last month of CPO. Perfect bill of health from three different BMW shops.

I fought with BMW for 4+ months to get a favor of only paying them half of the 26k they list a re-manufactured S65 for - with my take offs for my issues on a engine with 54k miles and a car around 4-months out of CPO. (time vs. miles) If a S65 fails, and people don't get one off of ebay, BMW is asking $26,000 for a re manufactured S65 - using your take offs. So I am glad they ask you.

But there is more. I had already bought a used S65 from Ebay - so I sold that to a major turner at a giant loss. And just as I wanted to know- I asked them when they replaced the rod bearings, to send me some pics of the wear The motor had 35k on it, the major tuner showed me pics it was about to spin those rod bearings too. IF they didn't force the rod bearing replacements, that S65 that looked brand new almost on the outside and new SC it was getting would have eaten itself - and everyone would have said Tuner X, SC kits blow up S65's... Are you wondering why they were buying my extra S65? Yep another blown S65 - a customer replacement motor.

And More:
Another S65 was in the dealer across town with rod bearings issues while mine was down

And More:
All most all of my upgrades on my E90 now, came from a guy that had his S65 rod bearings go - but he was lucky and BMW covered it 100% and he jumped ship after he got it back to a M4.

One thing that confused me for a long time was why some got nothing from BMW, some were fixed for free and some like me got a discount. (scope - all out of warranty) So this may help some one that comes across this - trying to guess their outcome with BMW. I was told off the record that it really depends on if you you are the original owner and bought it new. I'll call that best chance, then your outcomes likely go down from there. Someone smarter than me shared a important thing one a post like this that I found to be true in my case, you will also likely get out of the experience with about as much as you can, proportional to the amount of effort you put in. I spent 4-months plus with no car, making payments and my car was lawn art fighting with BMW to only pay them 50% of the cost I paid for car for a re-manufactured engine. Then eat a big loss selling the 1st used engine I bought as the BMW deal was better as it included install and 2-year warranty. If you every find yourself feeling lucky you only had to pay 50% more for your car then the initial purchase, and feel lucky - you might understand. To those BMW gave nothing... I really feel bad for them.

I hope this is over reported, it's not like the history, experiences, or even the evidence exists enough that two class actions have been tried just for the S65 rod bearings. And I don't mean were thinking about it. The last one I know about was far enough along that BMW and the lawyers were before a judge. But I am sure the lawyers were going to take on BMW for a super small amount of impacted people, at a class action level. You know what BMW was using to try and have the judge dismiss it? The named plaintiffs should not be allowed to represent the/a class as the class would be outside of that state. Not necessarily that it wasn't a issue, just that it shouldn't include the ability to include people from all states.

So I am glad they ask you. You can buy my NIB VAC/ARP set on ebay and save $200 in parts plus and tell them it's included in a box in the trunk with sale.

I will close with this, for all the lucky people that I hope are never impacted by this. My motor spun a bearing and exited parts out of the block on the highway, in a dark section, dumping 6 or more of its liters of oil on the dark highway. Would you want your mom, or sister, or brother on a motorcycle hitting that oil slick in the dark at 75MPH? (the speed limit where it happened) When I expressed the danger of that much oil dumping on the highway - I was told "that was not their problem as it was out of CPO," by BMW.

So I am not aiming this at anyone in particular - but for all the people that think this is hype - maybe you are just lucky. If you become unlucky, and BMW wont budge - like it took me 4-months to get them to - you might get a 26k bill. Or you could spend around 2k and have them changed to be safe - or you can just think lucky thoughts and I really do hope this never happens to any M3 owner. Unless you confuse luck for skill and mislead someone else in to a 26k bill - then I hope it hits you first.

I get where you're coming from because it happened to you.

But I've met so many E9X owners on the 6+ years I've had the car, only a handful did the bearing replacement, and they usually regretted it because they were fine.

I've also spoken with BMW mechanics who have said the car comes in no more or less than other BMWs.

There is an issue for sure, but how it happens is still unknown, and more likely than not an M3s engine will be fine.

[SDPLV]

Yeah, but if they look like sh*t you don't regret it...you're thankful as hell.

[Kash]

I heard/read that there were rod bearing failures even after the bearing replacement. This confuses me.

[pbonsalb]

Not really. A couple of cases, with explanations. If half the bearings removed from cars looked good, my opinion would be different, but almost all look bad. Its unfortunate, but its the reality. I think failures will be increasing, but so far the odds of it happening to you are small.

[Umi|all|day]

Originally Posted by Rat3d ///M

My only thought is how no matter how bad or good the bearings look when someone pulls them out, the response is always "oh man looks like you got those out of there just in time. those look terrible". Overhyped issue is causing me to have a hard time selling my car. Can't tell you how many people messaged me asking if I've changed the rod bearings first thing they say.

How many miles you got on it? If it's 100k or over then that would be the first thing I ask too.

[Leonardo629]

Originally Posted by Kash

I heard/read that there were rod bearing failures even after the bearing replacement. This confuses me.

I think this is still rare, pending BE bearings users to report back.

I think Doc OC thought his VAC bearings were going bad, but it turned out not so after a tear down.

Like I mentioned before, new/better bearings is only half the equation, you need to find a shop that does meticulous work, cleanliness is crucial as well.

Also, your engine will eventually fail anyway, if your crankshaft is worn, and your clearance is beyond the service limit even with the new bearings.

[redpriest]

It's not universal. My engine has lasted 151k miles now and 43 track days. I hammer on it daily - the car lives above 4k RPM. It can be done - however, I'm not sticking my head in the sand and saying it's not a problem on cars, I just happen to have a properly manufactured (or tolerance stack blessed if you think it's clearance related) engine. I will probably be replacing the rod bearings soon anyway, since the mileage is up there now.

FWIW, I had a warranty from USAA (Assurant) that would have covered me had anything happened after my 50k warranty expired, up to 100k miles. Nothing ever did, but it was still $4k out of my pocket.

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by Umi|all|day

How many miles you got on it? If it's 100k or over then that would be the first thing I ask too.

54k. Barely broken in for a 2011. If someone chooses to do rod bearings after they buy the car that's on them but the hysteria is so real that people are terrified to buy a car on original bearings and most of the potential buyers are probably people whove never owned an m3 and just read about rod bearings from a Google search.

[MyUnicorn]

Statistics are just numbers, until it happens to you or someone you know. Then, the shit gets real. Yes, things happen, but the likelihood of it happening to you is still a relatively low number. If you are going to lose sleep over this, then change your damn bearings. You gotta pay to play. If you are more of a realist, then drive on.

[UPSROD]

Or, you guys can buy this CHEAP, it has a knock in the motor, and change the bearings and call it a day!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222307940585...84.m1436.l2648

[monterey]

I think they would sell it faster and double their investment if they fix it before selling it.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by UPSROD

Or, you guys can buy this CHEAP, it has a knock in the motor, and change the bearings and call it a day!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222307940585...84.m1436.l2648

Originally Posted by monterey

I think they would sell it faster and double their investment if they fix it before selling it.

But...Would you buy it ?

[Eau Rouge]

IMO, there's too little data to draw any definitive conclusion that there is a "rod bearing's issue" even though it is reasonable to expect those that have experienced the problem to think that there IS a rod bearings' problem.

Imagine what we could do if we had an accurate database about the individual M3s that either (1) had excessive wear of the rod bearings' or (2) suffered catastrophic rod bearing failure that included the following about each unit (not limited to the items below)?

1. Miles on odometer when purchased.
2. First owner or not?
3. Engine break in recommendations followed without exception or not?
4. Complete data log of engine activity i.e. duration of every time engine was fired up, engine speed correlated to timeline and temperature.
5. Maintenance history
6. Mods or no mods? Types of mods?

Having that data would be a good start toward grouping the relatively few units into specific categories as opposed to what we have to date which is a single general "rods bearings' issue" category.

To those that have lost an engine due to bearings, you have my sympathy.
For my part, "Rod bearings!" is not something that I think when pressing the "Start" button, but I hope to never go through what some have experienced with excessive wear.