E46 or e92

[BOOF-M3]

So we are saying it is a well done clone, from seeing his other M cars I would have to think it is spot on.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by GVIFlyer

De gustibus. I've had two E93s and my present E92 DCT ZCP since I sold my E46 M3. I don't miss the E46 with all of its associated issues: rear subframe cracking, VANOS problems, and rod end bearing recall.

Is this your E46 M3 Touring?

That's the prototype BMW made.

Originally Posted by Munichm3

That’s a one off bmw made and never released. He just used an e46 touring shell and put the s54 in it.

Mine is not just an S54 swapped 325i. It has
S54
M3 trans
M3 diff
M3 engine mounts
M3 trans mounts
M3 front subframe/bushings
M3 rear subframe/bushings
M3 diff mounts
M3 exhaust (e46 m3 headers/section 1, e36/46 hybrid section 2/muffler)
M3 control arms
M3 front suspension (albeit with M3 spec Dinan Koni yellows)
M3 rear suspension (albeit with M3 spec TCK Koni yellows)
M3 chassis bracing
M3 front brakes
M3 fuel system
M3 rear brakes
M3 master cylinder
M3 sways
M3 seats
M3 steering wheel
M3 pedals
M3 shift knob
M3 cluster
M3 button strip
M3 ECU
M3 DSC
M3 steering rack
M3 cooling system

Every aspect that makes the M3 drive like an M3 has been swapped to the wagon chassis. An s54 swapped 3 series is a very different experience.

[GVIFlyer]

Originally Posted by Obioban

That's the prototype BMW made.



Mine is not an S54 swapped 325i. It has
S54
M3 trans
M3 diff
M3 engine mounts
M3 trans mounts
M3 front subframe/bushings
M3 rear subframe/bushings
M3 diff mounts
M3 exhaust (e46 m3 headers/section 1, e36/46 hybrid section 2/muffler)
M3 control arms
M3 front suspension (albeit with M3 spec Dinan Koni yellows)
M3 rear suspension (albeit with M3 spec TCK Koni yellows)
M3 chassis bracing
M3 front brakes
M3 rear brakes
M3 master cylinder
M3 sways
M3 seats
M3 steering wheel
M3 pedals
M3 shift knob
M3 cluster
M3 button strip
M3 ECU
M3 DSC
M3 steering rack
M3 cooling system

Every aspect that makes the M3 drive like an M3 has been swapped to the wagon chassis. An s54 swapped 3 series is a very different experience.

Sounds like you did a masterful job. Can you post a few pictures?

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

That's the prototype BMW made.



Mine is not just an S54 swapped 325i. It has
S54
M3 trans
M3 diff
M3 engine mounts
M3 trans mounts
M3 front subframe/bushings
M3 rear subframe/bushings
M3 diff mounts
M3 exhaust (e46 m3 headers/section 1, e36/46 hybrid section 2/muffler)
M3 control arms
M3 front suspension (albeit with M3 spec Dinan Koni yellows)
M3 rear suspension (albeit with M3 spec TCK Koni yellows)
M3 chassis bracing
M3 front brakes
M3 rear brakes
M3 master cylinder
M3 sways
M3 seats
M3 steering wheel
M3 pedals
M3 shift knob
M3 cluster
M3 button strip
M3 ECU
M3 DSC
M3 steering rack
M3 cooling system

Every aspect that makes the M3 drive like an M3 has been swapped to the wagon chassis. An s54 swapped 3 series is a very different experience.

Okay boss, I was just explaining to the other guy what you meant by the swap. To be fair, it’s still not an m3. It’s just a 325i swapped with a ton of parts in it. That’s like getting a 335i and swapping all the m3 parts in it. Is it a really good clone? Perhaps. Does it make it an m3? No.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by GVIFlyer

Sounds like you did a masterful job. Can you post a few pictures?

Since photobucket took out my (everyone's) pictures, I don't have access to any at work.

But, if you've seen a red e46 touring at M3 ride height, without the factory roof rack and with an unusually wide track and alignment (M3 track/alignment), that's what it looks like.

Originally Posted by Munichm3

Okay boss, I was just explaining to the other guy what you meant by the swap. To be fair, it’s still not an m3. It’s just a 325i swapped with a ton of parts in it. That’s like getting a 335i and swapping all the m3 parts in it. Is it a really good clone? Perhaps. Does it make it an m3? No.

a) what you described is vastly inaccurate to what the car is. Far more wrong than calling it an M3. It did not "explain what I meant by the swap"-- the engine is just one aspect of the M3 driving experience.

b) that's why I have it badged as "332i"

c) I have 3 actual (WBS VINed) M cars currently (including an e46 M3 coupe), and several others in the past, so I feel like I have a good idea of the differences

d) at heart, an M3 is a 3 series with a bunch of parts on it. If you change every part that's different on the M3 to the (3 series), the only thing that's different is the VIN doesn't start with WBS. Legally an M3? Nope. 100% of the driving experience? Yep.

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Since photobucket took out my (everyone's) pictures, I don't have access to any at work.

But, if you've seen a red e46 touring at M3 ride height, without the factory roof rack and with an unusually wide track and alignment (M3 track/alignment), that's what it looks like.



a) what you described is vastly inaccurate to what the car is. Far more wrong than calling it an M3. It did not "explain what I meant by the swap"-- the engine is just one aspect of the M3 driving experience.

b) that's why I have it badged as "332i"

c) I have 3 actual (WBS VINed) M cars currently (including an e46 M3 coupe), and several others in the past, so I feel like I have a good idea of the differences

d) at heart, an M3 is a 3 series with a bunch of parts on it. If you change every part that's different on the M3 to the (3 series), the only thing that's different is the VIN doesn't start with WBS.

So the real question is, what’s it claimed on your insurance?

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

So you essentially badged a car that never existed.

So the real question is, what’s it claimed on your insurance?

I followed the convention of BMW badging, back when BMW badges had meaning (before the modern era of turbo stupidity):

330i
3 series
3.0 liters of displacement
Fuel injected gasoline engine

Since the s54 is a 3.2 Liter engine, 332i is what conventional, pre turbo, BMW would have called it. Given your posts, I would think this should please you-- it's the most accurate badge that could be put on it (325i would be a lie since it's not a 2.5 anymore) and not M badged. Even better, I was about to get "332i" in e46 badge font by using a 323i badge.

Insurance companies insure by chassis VINs, so it's insured as a 325i with a value rider for modifications performed.

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I followed the convention of BMW badging, back when BMW badges had meaning (before the modern era of turbo stupidity):

330i
3 series
3.0 liters of displacement
Fuel injected gasoline engine

Since the s54 is a 3.2 Liter engine, 332i is what conventional, pre turbo, BMW would have called it. Given your posts, I would think this should please you-- it's the most accurate badge that could be put on it (325i would be a lie since it's not a 2.5 anymore) and not M badged. Even better, I was about to get "332i" in e46 badge font by using a 323i badge.

Insurance companies insure by chassis VINs, so it's insured as a 325i with a value rider for modifications performed.

So essentially it’s a 325i with many modifications.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

So essentially it’s a 325i with many modifications.

It has a 325i VIN.

[BOOF-M3]

Any chance Munich can take it for a test drive?

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Any chance Munich can take it for a test drive?

It would be the first 332i I would drive

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

Okay boss, I was just explaining to the other guy what you meant by the swap. To be fair, it’s still not an m3. It’s just a 325i swapped with a ton of parts in it. That’s like getting a 335i and swapping all the m3 parts in it. Is it a really good clone? Perhaps. Does it make it an m3? No.

if you get that 335i and swap all the parts that are different between a 335 and an M3... well, then you have an M3. A different VIN number no doubt, but other than that it would be indistinguishable from an M3

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

if you get that 335i and swap all the parts that are different between a 335 and an M3... well, then you have an M3. A different VIN number no doubt, but other than that it would be indistinguishable from an M3

+1, agreed.

A model designation is nothing more than the sum of the parts that make it whole.

So for the E46 M3 wagon I understand your logic for 332i, but an M3 badge on there wouldn't bother me the slightest.

When someone sticks an M3 badge on an otherwise stock 328i, I have an issue.

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

if you get that 335i and swap all the parts that are different between a 335 and an M3... well, then you have an M3. A different VIN number no doubt, but other than that it would be indistinguishable from an M3

True, but you would wind up spending a lot more than a factory-built M3 would cost, not necessarily have the same reliability, and certainly not have the same market value.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by DSilk

True, but you would wind up spending a lot more than a factory-built M3 would cost, not necessarily have the same reliability, and certainly not have the same market value.

Definitely... but that opens the world up for awesome things like a E91 M3!!!

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Definitely... but that opens the world up for awesome things like a E91 M3!!!

Speaking of which, member ChrisChan just loaded this photo of his car on his bumper thread. Seeing is believing...

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Speaking of which, member ChrisChan just loaded this photo of his car on his bumper thread. Seeing is believing...

I remember in an interview bmw would use that as a truck to hauls parts around

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

I remember in an interview bmw would use that as a truck to hauls parts around

That was then, this is now. ChrisChan got himself a hold of that baby. And after all doesn't everyone believe everything they see on the internet? I do.

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by DSilk

True, but you would wind up spending a lot more than a factory-built M3 would cost, not necessarily have the same reliability, and certainly not have the same market value.

I also agree with this, but one doesn't usually do something like that.

They do it with versions of a car that were either not produced or available in certain markets.

Which is why owners create their own E46/E91 M3 wagons.

A reasonable person wouldn't look at a 335 and say..."hmm, i could turn this into an M3."

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by lat77

I also agree with this, but one doesn't usually do something like that.

They do it with versions of a car that were either not produced or available in certain markets.

Which is why owners create their own E46/E91 M3 wagons.

A reasonable person wouldn't look at a 335 and say..."hmm, i could turn this into an M3."

Back in the day there were tons of Chevelles cloned into SS models. On the market a matching numbers SS might sell for $35k wherein a regular Chevelle depending on engine etc... might go for $20k. There were a lot of Dodge clones also but it does seem that if one does it with a BMW it is shunned upon. Different times I guess.

[Obioban]

On the e46 side, doing the mechanicals isn't that bad. You can buy a lightly crashed e46 for <8k and an e46 wagon for <6k. Most of the parts switch as an entire assemble-- Front subframe with the entire engine/suspension/brake system, rear subframe with the entire suspension/brake/diff system, move the trans/driveshaft/exhaust over, move 6 pins on the ecu harness, get the modules reprogrammed, swap cluster/ecu/seats, switch the fuel pump and filter/pressure regulator. All of the major mechanical systems go as a unit with the subframes, which don't need to be disassembled to be removed (mostly).

~14k of cars and 50 hours to do the job. Where it potentially gets expensive is
a) when parts are out of the car, the temptation is high to replace wear items as it's virtually no extra effort-- bushings/cooling system/bearings/etc
b) the M3 body work, particularly the rear fenders and paintwork required after (unless you managed to snag two donor cars of the same color)

... and then some of the cost can be offset by selling the left over non M engine/trans/diff, and various leftover M3 bits.

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Back in the day there were tons of Chevelles cloned into SS models. On the market a matching numbers SS might sell for $35k wherein a regular Chevelle depending on engine etc... might go for $20k. There were a lot of Dodge clones also but it does seem that if one does it with a BMW it is shunned upon. Different times I guess.

Idk...must have been more of a thing to do back then?

You certainly don't see "tons" of converted 328/335s turned into M3s. Probably has to deal with the amount of electronics in modern cars.


-hope all is well after the storm boof.