Top Gear Video: E92 M3 ZCP vs Audi RS5

[benn.]

is it me or did he just say that it's available with a matte color finish.. thought those were only special edition ones

[saeedg48]

Originally Posted by ss134

Your memory fails you....it was AW

oww that's right the silverstone one was with the prius.. when it beat it's gas mileage.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by footie

Driving dynamics is a very personal thing, for those that have owned the RS4 and moved up to the new RS5 they all say the dynamics are superior, now since the M3 hasn't changed from the time it was compared to the RS4 we have to concluded that what Audi are offering isn't what those reviewers were looking for. That doesn't mean the RS5 is a bad car, only that it can't thrill in the same way as an M3 can, but then again do we really need another M3 on the Market when the one we already have is exception?

The RS5 is a different car with clearly different goals, as you pointed out it's more of a GT yet it matches the M3's ability. Another thing worth mentioning is that because it's awd it's performance is easier to access, this might be a negative for those seeking something to push their own abilities but the reality is few of us could ever get close to matching the Stig's time in the M3 but might get a lot close in the RS5 just because it's limits are more approachable.

Different cars with different driving styles and demands on the driver but each are brilliant in their own right.

I agree with what youre saying to a point - but RS cars are the sportiest cars that Audi make and if theyre bringing out a car to take on the M3 4 years after the M3 has been in production it should be faster around a track than the 4 year old car - it has to be. The feel of a car i accept is subjective, as is the excitement etc but surely you have to agree that for the brand new RS5 to be slower around a track in wet conditions must be a huge disappointment to Audi. I could accept your reasoning if this was a regular Audi or even an S but for an RS it has to be about the cars performance first otherwise why is it an RS. The S5 is already a nice GT car.

[dhirm5]

Love Jeremy Clarkson. Great segment.

[footie]

Originally Posted by ss134

I agree with what youre saying to a point - but RS cars are the sportiest cars that Audi make and if theyre bringing out a car to take on the M3 4 years after the M3 has been in production it should be faster around a track than the 4 year old car - it has to be. The feel of a car i accept is subjective, as is the excitement etc but surely you have to agree that for the brand new RS5 to be slower around a track in wet conditions must be a huge disappointment to Audi. I could accept your reasoning if this was a regular Audi or even an S but for an RS it has to be about the cars performance first otherwise why is it an RS. The S5 is already a nice GT car.

Yeah it is probably a disappointment to Audi but one battle doesn't lose a war. As for the RS5 and it's role as a GT, many people view the A5 model range as a half way house between the 3 series coupe and the 6 series, the feel definitely does differ from 3 series when you drive one so maybe the mistake was marketing this car as a true rival to the M3. But the very fact that they use the M3 to base it's performance in a plus in my eyes because they have covered both bases, making it's a good grand tourer with the ability to match a true drivers car.

It's all down to the view point you are looking from. Many die-hard Audi fans couldn't care less about beating the M3 on the track, all they wanted was a rocket ship with twin turbos, so it just shows how different opinion on what a quick Audi should be, BMW do their thing and do it very well but in my opinion Audi should do their own thing and not try an compete to produce something in the M3's image.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ss134

I agree with what youre saying to a point - but RS cars are the sportiest cars that Audi make and if theyre bringing out a car to take on the M3 4 years after the M3 has been in production it should be faster around a track than the 4 year old car - it has to be. The feel of a car i accept is subjective, as is the excitement etc but surely you have to agree that for the brand new RS5 to be slower around a track in wet conditions must be a huge disappointment to Audi. I could accept your reasoning if this was a regular Audi or even an S but for an RS it has to be about the cars performance first otherwise why is it an RS. The S5 is already a nice GT car.

Excellent points!

[RealSanaii]

Originally Posted by footie

It's all down to the view point you are looking from. Many die-hard Audi fans couldn't care less about beating the M3 on the track, all they wanted was a rocket ship with twin turbos, so it just shows how different opinion on what a quick Audi should be, BMW do their thing and do it very well but in my opinion Audi should do their own thing and not try an compete to produce something in the M3's image.

That's exactly what RS5 needed. BTW, when was Audi's RS division about HIGH Revving NA engines???? Like you've mentioned, we DON'T need another BMW M or MB AMG. Audi should do their own thing.

[ExplosiveCorn]

Nice.

[Kayani_1]

Off course M3 comp. pkg on moist or wet track will be worse then a regular M3 on a dry track.

Most comparison have found M3 comp. pkg faster around track then regular M3.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

Off course M3 comp. pkg on moist or wet track will be worse then a regular M3 on a dry track.

Most comparison have found M3 comp. pkg faster around track then regular M3.

Which comparos? I'd like to read them.

[shiggy]

The RS5 was built to beat the M3....and it lost....no further questions your honor...next case....no soup for you...done deal....case closed!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by footie

Some tracks will suit some setups better than others, on the Topgear track on this occasion the M3 was quicker and no one can deny this fact, but it's also true that the M3 doesn't always have everything it's own way and the data shows on several tracks the results are reversed. Point being that all these cars are surprisingly closely matched to each other and the chances are that in real world situations with normal skilled drivers the differences could disappear entirely or grow dramatically such is the differences these cars demand on the driver's own abilities.

are you kidding...really??......good lord man...you will try to dissect or twist any result that does not favor Audi....it lost...get over it!....the biggest slap in Audi's face...it lost on a wet track...freaking hilarious!!!...
Quattro...over rated!!!

[shiggy]

by the way...is it me or does the lines on the M3 look absolutely wicked with the matte finish...it looks like it stands out more.

[AstonMartin]

Awesome!

[Ken37.73]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Which comparos? I'd like to read them.

+1

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by footie

many people view the A5 model range as a half way house between the 3 series coupe and the 6 series

I've personally never heard this before

Originally Posted by footie

Many die-hard Audi fans couldn't care less about beating the M3 on the track

I'm not sure I agree. Yes the average A4 driver (who ultimately stepped it up from the Jetta) probably couldnt care less about what BMW is doing. But there is a very large bunch of Audi fans, who are performance oriented, who would love nothing better than to see the M3 fall on its face. Look at any YouTube video which concerns an Audi and a BMW and see who lays down the most wise-ass comments...Not the Bimmer folks. Audi fans are kind of like me with the NY Yankees. I'm a loser Mets fan and dispise their continued success! Sound familiar?

Originally Posted by footie

Audi should do their own thing and not try an compete to produce something in the M3's image.

Something we can all agree on. Audi doesn't need to copy BMW. I think they can do the job all by themselves

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Which comparos? I'd like to read them.

+1 Yeah, me too. Show me one test where ZCP took a standard M3 out back to the water shed? Any tests I've read was like a 1/10 second which would/could definitely be chalked up to driver tolerance. Meanwhile, 99.9% of owners (like myself) will never be on the track with their car. So, enjoy the bumpy roads (like a teenagers face)

[footie]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

I've personally never heard this before

Now that does surprise me, when the A5 came out many BMW forum members believe it to be a 6 series rival and not the 3 series at all but as time when on and more comparison between the A5 and 3er continued they finally realised the 6er wasn't it's real target at all but somewhere in between the two.

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

I'm not sure I agree. Yes the average A4 driver (who ultimately stepped it up from the Jetta) probably couldnt care less about what BMW is doing. But there is a very large bunch of Audi fans, who are performance oriented, who would love nothing better than to see the M3 fall on its face. Look at any YouTube video which concerns an Audi and a BMW and see who lays down the most wise-ass comments...Not the Bimmer folks. Audi fans are kind of like me with the NY Yankees. I'm a loser Mets fan and dispise their continued success! Sound familiar?

When I say that what I mean is they want to hammer BMW, just not on the track. Acceleration is very important which is why many were upset at the direction of hi-revving N/A instead of the normal FI approach.

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Something we can all agree on. Audi doesn't need to copy BMW. I think they can do the job all by themselves

BMW are masters at what they do and their rivals need to do their own thing .... right? Well hear this, that is exactly what they do and it us and the magazines that label them as coping BMW, the reality is that Audi's idea of a performance car includes AWD and Merc's take on it is with a big beast of an engine, all creating very similar performance but going about it in a totally different way which is great in my opinion.

[monkawekrue]

bad ass video. i want that job.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by shiggy

by the way...is it me or does the lines on the M3 look absolutely wicked with the matte finish...it looks like it stands out more.

It's not just you. The M3 looks FANTASTIC in motion...........beautiful and muscular.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by tvrfan

the only reason that the RS5 was lost, is that jeremy clarkson drive it. this top gear reviews are bullshit. he drives the car in auto mode not in dynamic. that changes the car completly. in dynamic the car wouldnt understeer like seen in the review. like you can see in other reviews. JC is such an bmw bias idiot. look of the porsche reviews in top gear. in every single review hes talking about the bad design.

I'm confused!

JC has always been a Merc fan, not a BMW fan.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by tvrfan

the only reason that the RS5 was lost, is that jeremy clarkson drive it. this top gear reviews are bullshit. he drives the car in auto mode not in dynamic. that changes the car completly. in dynamic the car wouldnt understeer like seen in the review. like you can see in other reviews. JC is such an bmw bias idiot. look of the porsche reviews in top gear. in every single review hes talking about the bad design.

Ummm.....THE STIG drove the cars for the time trial, so what does that have to do with J.C.? Understeer has more to do with suspension (..when on/off the throttle), weight distribution, etc. What does auto/dynamic have to do with that (..unless it, in some way, shape, or form alters suspension travel/compliance)? Lastly, if he feels that the P-Car's design is bad (..I'm assuming that you meant aesthetically/ergonomically), that's okay. Maybe for his height, body type, etc., the P-Car doesn't work for him. I personally prefer the interior ergonomics of an E92 M3 over the P-Car, but it won't stop me from buying a GT3.