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01-02-2012, 09:18 PM | #23 |
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Those are my winter wheel sizes and compared to my summers (265/295) the car feels completely different. I think MY car would have the same review if just the tires were switched. Think the impact of rubber not fully appreciated here, but then again I did pick the M
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01-03-2012, 01:55 AM | #24 | |
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01-03-2012, 03:23 AM | #25 |
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OP should just get a Carrera S or GTS and call it a day. But then... price might bring up another debate. Well we all get what we pay for.
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01-03-2012, 06:18 AM | #26 | |
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01-03-2012, 06:22 AM | #27 |
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I second that! Off centre, there is always that slag that makes the car feel sloppy. It's said that in the regular series cars, BMW engineered that to protect against soccer mums on their grocery runs. I can understand that, but in M cars? I don't think it's necessary at all. I am hoping the new M5 will have a better steering compared to the M3. From what i have read so far, it seems to be the case. The 1M has a better steering rack and if confirmed by the M5, this bodes well for the next M3 as they seem to be getting their act together on the steering front.
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01-03-2012, 01:14 PM | #28 |
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I find the DD comments bizarre. What do you guys classify as "daily drivability"? Low end torque? Ok.. How exactly does that look on the street? Are you guys stabbing the throttle to get up to the limit? Dunno.. just.. someone educate me on why it is so much better to have low end torque for DD'ing your vehicle. Furthermore, if you really must accelerate with unnecessary rapidness up to the speed limit, what is wrong with doing so at high rpms?
I x-shopped both, and was attracted mainly by a lot of the comments on this site and videos (particularly the noise) to send me to the Merc dealership. I didn't like the interior, and I felt the car was a quite a bit more "floaty" than the M3. I'm definitely biased to the way the S65 sounds as well... or ended up being biased I suppose. To the OP: I think BMWs are really no longer the car to get if you're interested in intimate steering feel. It would be time, IMO, to take a look at Lotus or similar smaller, sporty car.
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01-03-2012, 08:04 PM | #29 | |
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The M3 is very much a great and satisfying DD... however, drive in the C63 for a few days and you will know what I am describing. Cruising along in 4th gear and you need to pass someone... push the gas pedal, the car pushes you back in your seat and you just missile forward. To get the same thing in the M3 at the same street speed, you would need to downshift, get revs to 5,000 +/- and then stab the go pedal... not a bad thing at all, just different. Anyone who says that a huge amount of almost always available torque isn't fun in a DD hasn't experienced it. Until I did, I would have thought it was not needed too. On the track it is much less relevant but around town, back roads, highway driving... it is very fun and very addictive being pushed back in your seat when the car literally rockets ahead.
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01-04-2012, 12:09 AM | #31 | |
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01-04-2012, 12:40 AM | #32 |
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IMO the C63 has better steering feel than the M3. Its weighted better, as the M3 steering feels very electronically assisted and fake. A friend of mine who owns the M3 comp package agrees and I know a couple car mags did as well.
No question the M3 is the better handling car thou. I have owed both
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01-04-2012, 06:44 AM | #33 | |
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01-04-2012, 06:49 AM | #34 | |
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01-04-2012, 10:17 AM | #35 | |
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I'll bite anyway. Our S65 has a generally flat torque curve, of at least 250 lb-ft in most rpms! Not exactly a small amount of torque. Why the heck are you bouncing off your rev limiter driving around the city? Does that strike anyone else as absolutely insane? I have never had any issues keeping up / politely driving with traffic when driving in appropriate gears. I'm thinking.. maximum of 5000rpm. Nowhere near redline. I just don't get it. Any more thrust in normal driving situations is NOT required. I actually lament that I don't see the high rpm's often enough. So as I understand it based on the nonsense in this thread, some of you are willing to switch vehicles completely because you are: - too lazy to shift - want to be experiencing maximum thrust at all times - want to achieve said thrust rapidly until reaching the speed limit - think that Honda Oddysey's are riding your bumper Seriously?? DO sell your M3s and buy turbocharged car. They provide said cheap thrills and will achieve the jackass-driver look you're going for. You guys will love the 335i. Tune it and you can fit right in with the other DBs I see driving around the city enjoying their gobs of torque. Clearly, the driver-oriented M3 is not for you. All that inconvenient shifting and linear power delivery. Pfft. All that said, I think the C63 is a cool car. There are plenty of reasons to go to it. But don't say the reason is because you want to feel thrust at all times during traffic situations.
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01-04-2012, 11:11 AM | #36 |
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Both great cars. C63 sounds f-ing awesome stock and it feels solid and well put together. Sure there is some difference between the two but how could you possibly go wrong with either? I could have gotten either but it was small detail type stuff that made me go M3. Very happy but I don't think I would have been anything close to unhappy in the C63.
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01-04-2012, 11:19 AM | #37 | |
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01-04-2012, 06:45 PM | #38 | |
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Again... I am NOT saying the M3 doesn't have enough torque around town, it does. I am saying the significant torque available in the C63 is fun, addictive and very useful in DD application. For some people, this is a real plus in a DD.
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01-04-2012, 07:04 PM | #39 | |
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Just becuase someone enjoys a high tq car doesn't make them a dbag. I personally can't wait for the next gen turbo m3. Bring on the tq. And I'll probably tune it too
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01-04-2012, 09:13 PM | #40 | |
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01-04-2012, 11:19 PM | #41 | |
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Have you ever driven an M3?
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01-05-2012, 03:16 AM | #42 |
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I don't quite understand that statement when people make it. My M3 certainly doesn't feel as strong at 2000 rpm compared to my prev 135i. The 135i hits max torque way before 2000rpm at 450 NM (power kit). In no way is an M3 as responsive at that rpm.
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01-05-2012, 07:00 AM | #43 | |
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01-05-2012, 07:18 AM | #44 |
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To the DD point - I agree, based upon my experience, that for 95% of the other cars out there, you really don't need to rev that high to pass other cars. I find that from a stoplight that even against "ordinary" cars that are accelerating pretty aggressively, if I'm getting up to about 3500 rpm's before shifting (where I am only about 400 rpm short of the max torque at the crankshaft of 295 ft/lb), I am still easily overtaking the vast majority of other cars on the road - so contrary to some of the posts above - I can easily out-accelerate the most aggressively-driven soccer mom Honda odyssey without having to exceed 4000 rpm's...
Now on the other hand - the same would also be true for cars with more torque such as the c63 - except with the c63, you would be able to do the same thing at a lower rpm compared to the m3... Bottom line - does one have to rev the m3 higher to get a given rate of acceleration compared to a c63 or 335i? Absolutely. HOWEVER - you certainly do NOT need to rev the crap out of the M3 in order to obtain a very brisk rate of acceleration in DD conditions. I have driven 335i's and even the 335d which has WAY more torque at the crankshaft (425 ft/lb vs 295 ft/lb). Assuming you do not rev past 3500 rpm - the 335d definitely feels faster. However - I drove my e93 (which is about 300 pounds heavier than a 335d sedan) the day after driving the 335d - and I will say that by 4000 rpm my m3 felt just as quick, and at 5000 tpm or higher - the e93 (even with it's greater weight) was unquestionably faster (so imagine how much greater the difference would be if you're in the M3 sedan or coupe which are both about 450 lbs lighter than my e93)!! |
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