BMW is now allowing any LL-01 oil for M engines

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Billj747

I'm pretty sure:

The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasloline engines, at the present time.

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M Vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines

Means:

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils, for BMW M Vehicles equipped with: S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines

But you can convince yourself whatever you want to believe.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that it's poorly worded. As others alluded to, it's as if they intentionally make it ambiguous so you go, "Well I don't understand, so I'm going to keep buying the TWS."

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Billj747

I'm pretty sure the EDGE TWS 10W60 is not an LL-01 approved oil -which would defeat the above interpretation.

It only says that they are "endorsed for use in BMW M-Model engines":

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6FDB8BF64A70767380257B520054A718/$File/BPXE-96ZTLQ.pdf


0.02

Correct, it carries the special M approval. I just don't like their odd grammar and use of singular "oil" as opposed to plural "oils".

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Billj747

I'm pretty sure:

The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasloline engines, at the present time.

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M Vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines

Means:

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils, for BMW M Vehicles equipped with: S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines

But you can convince yourself whatever you want to believe.


I'm pretty sure the EDGE TWS 10W60 is not an LL-01 approved oil -which would defeat the above interpretation.

It only says that they are "endorsed for use in BMW M-Model engines":

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6FDB8BF64A70767380257B520054A718/$File/BPXE-96ZTLQ.pdf


0.02

[rantarM3]

In the spirit of lack of clarity, Castrol claims that the Castrol EDGE Professional TWS 10W-60 has exclusive approval for BMW M-Models.

See last page:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/D572CF181EB0066C80257989002D92DE/$File/BPXE-8HE9C3_0.pdf

But in the same document, it states that it is recommended by BMW for M - Models.

[speedaddictM3]

Is there anything special, unique, or unusual about the S65 engine that I don't know about? The engine in the 458 Italia, which is by far more high strung and potent than the M3 engine, takes 5w40 oil. The way I see it, if a 40 weight oil is good enough for a 458 Italia, it should be good enough for an M3. And since I have no warranty left, I'll be switching out in the next oil change. And no, I couldn't care less what BMW's official recommendations are.

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by speedaddictM3

Is there anything special, unique, or unusual about the S65 engine that I don't know about? The engine in the 458 Italia, which is by far more high strung and potent than the M3 engine, takes 5w40 oil. The way I see it, if a 40 weight oil is good enough for a 458 Italia, it should be good enough for an M3. And since I have no warranty left, I'll be switching out in the next oil change. And no, I couldn't care less what BMW's official recommendations are.

The point of this whole thread is boiling down to risk aversion. The risk for those of us under warranty is that BMW could refuse coverage because an unapproved oil was used. If that's a big concern, then you can read the bulletin conservatively. For those out of warranty, the risk is gone except to the extent that BMW would goodwill a repair but for the use of an unapproved oil. But ultimately it's your car and you can do whatever you want with it, and everyone can draw their own conclusions from the information posted.

[gatorfast]

Once again, I think some of you are just making stuff up and freaking out for no reason. The bulletin is quite clear and has 3 distinct bullet points listing the 3 oil recommendations. The first one is saying any oil that meets LL-01 rating. The second two are specific oils which are sold by BMW. Nothing confusing about it.

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Once again, I think some of you are just making stuff up and freaking out for no reason. The bulletin is quite clear and has 3 distinct bullet points listing the 3 oil recommendations. The first one is saying any oil that meets LL-01 rating. The second two are specific oils which are sold by BMW. Nothing confusing about it.

Based on your reading of the bulletin there would be no change to the specification other than to replace the Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W-60 with Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30. In other words, all LL-01 oils have been approved for the S65 since at least Jan. 2008. The Jan. 2008 bulletin (partially quoted in Post 60) had the exact same language that is now in the August 2013 bulletin and that you're interpreting as allowing any LL-01 oil for the S65.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

Based on your reading of the bulletin there would be no change to the specification other than to replace the Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W-60 with Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30. In other words, all LL-01 oils have been approved for the S65 since at least Jan. 2008. The Jan. 2008 bulletin (partially quoted in Post 60) had the exact same language that is now in the August 2013 bulletin and that you're interpreting as allowing any LL-01 oil for the S65.

I just looked at BMW-NA's website this morning and noticed 3 distinct bullet points on the page itself (which are not on the PDF file):

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx


-Was that always there or was there a change?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Billj747

I just looked at BMW-NA's website this morning and noticed 3 distinct bullet points on the page itself (which are not on the PDF file):

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx


-Was that always there or was there a change?

That's how looked when this new information came out.

The more I look at this:
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines


...the more I am beginning to believe that LL-01 is okay. I'm reading it as, "If you have an M car with the S54, S62, S65, or S85, you can use LL-01. If your M car has any other engine, you cannot use LL-01." (such as the new M5/M6's V8)

I would've written it as:
For BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines: BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils

[EarthboundMisfit]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

I can confirm this. BMW Australia has not changed the oil and if any owner changes, then it's at his or her own risk.

The oil viscosity recommendation (10W60) may not have changed, but the preferred supplier may have.

18 months ago I had Brisbane BMW change the oil, and they put in Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W60, not Castrol. They advised that they now use Shell, not Castrol, but didn't elaborate why. Perhaps Castrol is no longer the only oil supplier Australian dealerships can choose from.

According to my (2007) owner's manual, the following viscosities are appropriate:
Preferred: SAE 10W-60
Alternative: SAE 10W-40, SAE 5W-50, 10W-50

Would be interested to know what a 2013 manual (from any region) says?

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by EarthboundMisfit

The oil viscosity recommendation (10W60) may not have changed, but the preferred supplier may have.

18 months ago I had Brisbane BMW change the oil, and they put in Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W60, not Castrol. They advised that they now use Shell, not Castrol, but didn't elaborate why. Perhaps Castrol is no longer the only oil supplier Australian dealerships can choose from.

According to my (2007) owner's manual, the following viscosities are appropriate:
Preferred: SAE 10W-60
Alternative: SAE 10W-40, SAE 5W-50, 10W-50

Would be interested to know what a 2013 manual (from any region) says?

I don't know how Brisbane BMW put Shell when Castrol is the sole supplier to BMW and all dealers. That's very interesting and you should ask for an explanation.

The manual reads, "alternatively" and I guess it's up for interpretation, and given TWS is available through the dealer we won't be able to get away using an alternate grade. I think it only applies to when SAE 10w-60 is not available.

Interesting, it doesn't mention TWS in the manual which means one can use Castrol Edge 10w-60 and get away. So Castrol Edge 10w-60 will set you back $180 for just the 10l oil compared to $400 just for TWS at the dealer.

TWS literature states, " ... micro filtered and with its signature fluorescent colour, it is your guarantee of professional quality." This is the only line that missing in the retail 10w-60 literature. I think "professional" is used for oil that's sold to dealers and workshops just to make it look like a different oil. Why would Castrol make to different grades of 10w-60. Doesn't make sense. All a marketing gimmick.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

TWS literature states, " ... micro filtered and with its signature fluorescent colour, it is your guarantee of professional quality." This is the only line that missing in the retail 10w-60 literature. I think "professional" is used for oil that's sold to dealers and workshops just to make it look like a different oil. Why would Castrol make to different grades of 10w-60. Doesn't make sense. All a marketing gimmick.

If you look at the spec sheets, you will see that Castrol Edge Sport 10w60 and Edge Professional TWS 10w60 are not the same oil. And in grand Castrol tradition, they selectively omit certain important data from the technical sheets. TWS is API SN whereas Sport is only SM, and TWS carries some manufacturer approvals whereas Sport carries none. Edge Sport has been discontinued though I suspect there's still inventory floating around.

Edge Sport 10w60 was replaced with Castrol Edge FST 10w60....and it matches Edge Professional TWS spec-for-spec, so clearly it's relabeled. It isn't available in the United States, however. Pricing for the jug is pretty cheap.

I guess Castrol decided there wasn't much point in selling two nearly-identical products.

Just be careful which Castrol 10w60 product you buy if you are not in North America.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by dparm

If you look at the spec sheets, you will see that Castrol Edge Sport 10w60 and Edge Professional TWS 10w60 are not the same oil. And in grand Castrol tradition, they selectively omit certain important data from the technical sheets. TWS is API SN whereas Sport is only SM, and TWS carries some manufacturer approvals whereas Sport carries none. Edge Sport has been discontinued though I suspect there's still inventory floating around.

Edge Sport 10w60 was replaced with Castrol Edge FST 10w60....and it matches Edge Professional TWS spec-for-spec, so clearly it's relabeled. It isn't available in the United States, however. Pricing for the jug is pretty cheap.

I guess Castrol decided there wasn't much point in selling two nearly-identical products.

Just be careful which Castrol 10w60 product you buy if you are not in North America.

I think the manufacturer approval is intentionally left out so that people are forced to buy their oil from the dealer. It would be pointless because everyone will go to the corner auto shop for their oil.

I have given up on buying the retail 10w-60 due to the bearing issue.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

I think the manufacturer approval is intentionally left out so that people are forced to buy their oil from the dealer. It would be pointless because everyone will go to the corner auto shop for their oil.

I have given up on buying the retail 10w-60 due to the bearing issue.

Possibly, but getting the approval is extremely expensive. Perhaps they didn't bother with the approvals to target the people who are racing or are out of warranty.