E92 M3 is over priced!

[JEllis]

Yeah I will go back and look at some of the reviews to figure out which ones are using price as tested. I have read so many now its hard to keep track....

Jason

[aerisolphaln]

As others have posted on this board, I think it is a poor prognostic sign that BMW have not released the official US price yet. The world wide debut and sales of the car start next month, and the UK pricing has been out for quite some time now.

I agree with the argument that BMW will wait as long as possible before announcing the US price for a couple of reasons. Frist of all, they want to see if the dollar gains any strength against the Euro to increase the profitability of selling the lion's share of the M3's in the US. Secondly, I believe BMW will be asking a very high premium in the US for the M3 based on prices of the car in the UK and percent increase of price over models such as the previous generation M3, the current 335i, and the RS4. I do believe BMW will have a base US MSRP of about $65,000. By waiting until as close to US availability as possible to announce the price, they will give people less time to rationally decide if the car is really worth that much of a premium. People will be sick with anticipation and M3 hunger and will feel like they need to order it right away after the world has had the car for 6 months, and if you pop the price at the last second, they won't consider how extremely expesive this 3 series really is.

I think the longer BMW go with no US price announcement, the more expensive the car is going to be.

[AxelLopezzzz]

I just talked to a salesman here in PR and he told me that the new M3 will be sold here for around $110Gs

Ouchh!

[nusevad]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

At least is right! Good forged wheels will be at least $3.5-4k plus about $1.2 for tires. Of course, you can run the 18s for a while and defer that purchase for a while.

a sponsorship wouldnt hurt, and i dont think it will be hard to find someone willing to sponsor the hottest thing on the road.

[bullitt5897]

Man this is Ridiculous I will be taking my front of the line deposit back and get an new s2000! but it gets better I will be working on this s2k like a mother and decided why not have a 500hp race/street s2k revving to 9 or 10k depending on my mods and only weighing in at 2800 lbs. I figure for the money I could build a better damn car!!!


Why!!! Cause I want it MY WAY!!! and for MY PRICE!!!

If you guys have seen my photoshops here on the board you know what I can dream up but its no longer time to just dream its time to put these thoughts into reality! Hopefully I will see some of you guys here in ATL. I will be sure to drop by one of the meets and probably chat it up with you guys and see what I missed out on and hopefully show you guys what I can do with a car. P.S if you need any Data Aqcuisition, lap timers or car camera kits let me know and I will hook you guys up!!!

Peace

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

Man this is Ridiculous I will be taking my front of the line deposit back and get an new s2000! but it gets better I will be working on this s2k like a mother and decided why not have a 500hp race/street s2k revving to 9 or 10k depending on my mods and only weighing in at 2800 lbs. I figure for the money I could build a better damn car!!!


Why!!! Cause I want it MY WAY!!! and for MY PRICE!!!

If you guys have seen my photoshops here on the board you know what I can dream up but its no longer time to just dream its time to put these thoughts into reality! Hopefully I will see some of you guys here in ATL. I will be sure to drop by one of the meets and probably chat it up with you guys and see what I missed out on and hopefully show you guys what I can do with a car. P.S if you need any Data Aqcuisition, lap timers or car camera kits let me know and I will hook you guys up!!!

Peace

The S2000 is an amazing car. Its the only honda I would actually own. My cousin has a red '02 and it drives really nice. I've driven it and its a nice weekend car to have. Good Luck to you!

K3N R3D

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

By waiting until as close to US availability as possible to announce the price, they will give people less time to rationally decide if the car is really worth that much of a premium. People will be sick with anticipation and M3 hunger and will feel like they need to order it right away after the world has had the car for 6 months, and if you pop the price at the last second, they won't consider how extremely expesive this 3 series really is.

I agree that they will delay as long as possible but this is going to happen for other reasons. The percentage of folks that have to have the car ASAP as soon as it is released compared to the 100,000 or so that will eventually own the car is very small. BMW is smart enough to take into account the long term consequences of pricing on the volume they can sell.

[devo]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

As others have posted on this board, I think it is a poor prognostic sign that BMW have not released the official US price yet. The world wide debut and sales of the car start next month, and the UK pricing has been out for quite some time now.

I agree with the argument that BMW will wait as long as possible before announcing the US price for a couple of reasons. Frist of all, they want to see if the dollar gains any strength against the Euro to increase the profitability of selling the lion's share of the M3's in the US. Secondly, I believe BMW will be asking a very high premium in the US for the M3 based on prices of the car in the UK and percent increase of price over models such as the previous generation M3, the current 335i, and the RS4. I do believe BMW will have a base US MSRP of about $65,000. By waiting until as close to US availability as possible to announce the price, they will give people less time to rationally decide if the car is really worth that much of a premium. People will be sick with anticipation and M3 hunger and will feel like they need to order it right away after the world has had the car for 6 months, and if you pop the price at the last second, they won't consider how extremely expesive this 3 series really is.

I think the longer BMW go with no US price announcement, the more expensive the car is going to be.

I know that I will not be purchasing an M3, if it has a base price of more than $60k.

[drft92]

Originally Posted by devo

I know that I will not be purchasing an M3, if it has a base price of more than $60k.

If you feel that 60k is too much for a base M3, then what vehicles do you find to be comparable for an under a 60k base ?? Vehicles of the same caliber from a performance, luxury and esthetic aspects. From an economical stand point the general public could not even justify spending over 50k on any car. However you own a 997tt which msrp's for 122k. Awesome car by the way. Point is this beauty is in the eye of the beholder yada yada yada. Just remember vehicles are meant to get you from point a to point b but great vehicles are meant to get you in trouble.

[bullitt5897]

Thnx K3N R3D I will keep you guys updated as I build this lil Track demon HEHEHE

[JEllis]

As others have posted on this board, I think it is a poor prognostic sign that BMW have not released the official US price yet. The world wide debut and sales of the car start next month, and the UK pricing has been out for quite some time now.

I agree with the argument that BMW will wait as long as possible before announcing the US price for a couple of reasons. Frist of all, they want to see if the dollar gains any strength against the Euro to increase the profitability of selling the lion's share of the M3's in the US. Secondly, I believe BMW will be asking a very high premium in the US for the M3 based on prices of the car in the UK and percent increase of price over models such as the previous generation M3, the current 335i, and the RS4. I do believe BMW will have a base US MSRP of about $65,000. By waiting until as close to US availability as possible to announce the price, they will give people less time to rationally decide if the car is really worth that much of a premium. People will be sick with anticipation and M3 hunger and will feel like they need to order it right away after the world has had the car for 6 months, and if you pop the price at the last second, they won't consider how extremely expesive this 3 series really is.

I think the longer BMW go with no US price announcement, the more expensive the car is going to be.

Your thinking is logical but not accurate.

When I placed my order with Military Sales I was told that BMW was limiting release numbers world wide, much the same way BMW did with the M5. In fact most M3's released in 08 are probably already sold. Meaning, that unless you are #1 or #2 on your dealers waiting list then you probably are not getting an M3 in 08. I dont think BMW is delaying at all. I think we havnt heard US pricing because we are going to be one of the last countries to get the car. I would expect to see US pricing just before the Frankfurt show if not right after. BMW probably wants to release the price for their biggest market with the actual release of the car. Plus, I dont agree that the M3 is going to be priced over 60K. Makes no sense for this car to have a premium like that over the 335i. Just my assumption though. Also, Military Sales quoted me 50K base (which is supposed to be about 10% off of MSRP) which makes the US price somehwere around 55-57K. Military Sales sounds confident in their estimate. I guess we will see though.

Jason

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

Thnx K3N R3D I will keep you guys updated as I build this lil Track demon HEHEHE

Please do. And if you are ever in the south florida area with your new s2000, send me a private message. Me, my cousin and some other car enthusists are always hanging out.

K3N

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by JEllis

If I was a gambling man, I would put my money on 57K base. 60 and over doesnt make any sense to me with cars like Porsche and Benz in that rare 70-80K air.

So that being said, 57K base and 65-67K nicely equiped....

Jason

Yep. More than $57k msrp, I'm done with the ///M and look for something else.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by drft92

If you feel that 60k is too much for a base M3, then what vehicles do you find to be comparable for an under a 60k base ?? Vehicles of the same caliber from a performance, luxury and esthetic aspects.

Another way to look at this is similiar to Edmund's reivew. There are cars out there that might not offer 100% of M3's performance, luxury and brand name but they provide better value (Yes, I know the word value is a bit absurd when referring to a 60k+ car). For example, you can probably pick up an slightly used elise for a good price and it will have similar performance figures as M3, but it will definately be more fun to drive. Like you said it's all subjective.

I may throw in the towels as well and move to the 135i camp. I will be around though tosee what I am missing as well. Perhaps that will convince me to pay the extra coin.

[bulletproof]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Your thinking is logical but not accurate.

When I placed my order with Military Sales I was told that BMW was limiting release numbers world wide, much the same way BMW did with the M5. In fact most M3's released in 08 are probably already sold. Meaning, that unless you are #1 or #2 on your dealers waiting list then you probably are not getting an M3 in 08. I dont think BMW is delaying at all. I think we havnt heard US pricing because we are going to be one of the last countries to get the car. I would expect to see US pricing just before the Frankfurt show if not right after. BMW probably wants to release the price for their biggest market with the actual release of the car. Plus, I dont agree that the M3 is going to be priced over 60K. Makes no sense for this car to have a premium like that over the 335i. Just my assumption though. Also, Military Sales quoted me 50K base (which is supposed to be about 10% off of MSRP) which makes the US price somehwere around 55-57K. Military Sales sounds confident in their estimate. I guess we will see though.

Jason

Yeah, Ive been quoted the same through pentagon car sales. I'm not so sure though...

If you look at the price increase of a 550 to an M5, then a 20k jump on a 335's price is a likely possibility... unless they make everything an option on the car...

Look at the price of its direct competitior, the RS4. At 66k, it comes heavily optioned. I can't see BMW, which is historically more expensive than Audis to come in 10k under a car that it's better than... unless it comes BONE stock. In that case, any options are going to quickly jump this cars price up near the RS4's.

I REALLY hope Im wrong

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by bulletproof

Look at the price of its direct competitior, the RS4. At 66k, it comes heavily optioned. I can't see BMW, which is historically more expensive than Audis to come in 10k under a car that it's better than... unless it comes BONE stock. In that case, any options are going to quickly jump this cars price up near the RS4's.

RS4 is governed by slightly different economics. It is not a regular production vehicle like the M3 is and will be for the next 6 years. It was planned with a limited 3 year run from beginning to keep its production down. It thus can enjoy a higher price caused by the lower supply.

BMW will price this car where they need to to hit their 100k sales goal. Although, one point I suppose we cannot forget is that the sedan could become the entry M3 (which I understand was not the case with the E36). That may allow them to place a small 2-5k premium on the coupe, bringing it over 60k. The 335i coupe holds a small premium over its sedan brother, after all. On the other hand, it will be the first one out of the gate, so it will set the trend so to speak as far as the perceived value equation the M3 lineup holds as a whole. Whatever the price, it needs to be a hit from the get-go.

[e36jakeo]

BMW knows the pricing of the M3 in the US is crucial to them hitting their 100K target. They can't go for high volume AND overly high price, can they?

When comparing the E92 M3 to the E46 M3, the E92 will be a little quicker (15% better HP to weight), will offer better transmission tech (DCT vs SMG), and be more refined.

Comparing the E46 M3 to the E36 M3 it replaced, it had a 30% improvement in power to weight, was MUCH faster, had a lot better interior, more tech (S54 engine, variable ramp LSD, stability control, bigger stock wheels and tires, etc.) and only cost about $6K more ($41,500 for E36 vs. $47,500 for the E46). This was during a time when there were not nearly the number of worthy competitors there are now. Another point of reference was that the E46 M3 cost a bit more than a C5 Corvette with 350 HP, crappy interior and construction.

If BMW elevates the M3's price into the $60Ks, it will be priced $15K+ above the C6 Corvette that is MUCH faster than it (436 HP, 3300 lbs) and will destroy it on any road course. It will also be $12K+ more than the outgoing E46 M3, and will tread into waters occupied by HUGE performers (upcoming Nissan GTR, C Z06) or very nice Porsches (Cayman S, 911s).

In the training materials for salespeople BMW continually references the 911 as its target. If it is, they may think they can get away with $60Ks pricing. And for the more budget minded enthusiasts, they can just sell them a 335i or 135i - either way they win!

[lucid]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

BMW knows the pricing of the M3 in the US is crucial to them hitting their 100K target. They can't go for high volume AND overly high price, can they?

When comparing the E92 M3 to the E46 M3, the E92 will be a little quicker (15% better HP to weight), will offer better transmission tech (DCT vs SMG), and be more refined.

Comparing the E46 M3 to the E36 M3 it replaced, it had a 30% improvement in power to weight, was MUCH faster, had a lot better interior, more tech (S54 engine, variable ramp LSD, stability control, bigger stock wheels and tires, etc.) and only cost about $6K more ($41,500 for E36 vs. $47,500 for the E46). This was during a time when there were not nearly the number of worthy competitors there are now. Another point of reference was that the E46 M3 cost a bit more than a C5 Corvette with 350 HP, crappy interior and construction.

If BMW elevates the M3's price into the $60Ks, it will be priced $15K+ above the C6 Corvette that is MUCH faster than it (436 HP, 3300 lbs) and will destroy it on any road course. It will also be $12K+ more than the outgoing E46 M3, and will tread into waters occupied by HUGE performers (upcoming Nissan GTR, C Z06) or very nice Porsches (Cayman S, 911s).

In the training materials for salespeople BMW continually references the 911 as its target. If it is, they may think they can get away with $60Ks pricing. And for the more budget minded enthusiasts, they can just sell them a 335i or 135i - either way they win!

I don't think the power/weight performance analysis will have a great deal to do with the M3 pricing, so I don't see how that will hold pricing below $60k.

Yes, BMW seems to be explicitly targeting the 911 with this one. And as I've said earlier, customers would raise an eyebrow if they were told, "our product is just as good--even better--than the 911 and it costs $20k less." (I am assuming the base '08 911 pricing will be around $76k). I am becoming increasingly convinced that this will come in at a little above $60k.

[aloha03gs]

just a guess but i think base price for 6 speed will be around 56k...and for those that want DCT...I think it will be just a little under 60k...lol hopefully

[M3_2010]

Originally Posted by aerisolphaln

i totally agree with you. if this thing starts in the mid-60's in the US, which i believe it will, i will seriously consider porsche and i think bmw will miss their target m3 sales goals by 50%.

It should start at about 50k for coupe and 60k for convertable.... Or I am getting a 911S.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by drft92

If you feel that 60k is too much for a base M3, then what vehicles do you find to be comparable for an under a 60k base ?? Vehicles of the same caliber from a performance, luxury and esthetic aspects.

+1, exactly. Sure we don't have the exact price and $60k base is an important psychological barrier. Either way $58k base or $62k base you can't really come close with another choice for the same price given performance, quality, fun, luxury, prestige, trackable, etc. And PLEASE don't go on and on about modded cars, I am talking STOCK.

Also the argument that $62k is too expensive, "so I'll just get a base (NO options) 911 Carrera S for $84k" is simply ridiculous. Very close performance (likely exceeded in many performance metrics by the E92 M3) less seating, less trunk, but indeed possibly a bit more fun/pure but for 1/3rd more with no options. Come on get real. Don't even get me going about the base 911 (non S) for $74k base it is clearly going to be significantly out performed by the E92 M3. The price of the M3 will not "too high" nor is its price to performance ratio. The price to performance ratio is exactly where the M3 will be unbeatable.

I doubt that almost all those who have this opinion and attitude are seriously in the market for either car.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by swamp2

+1, exactly. Sure we don't have the exact price and $60k base is an important psychological barrier. Either way $58k base or $62k base you can't really come close with another choice for the same price given performance, quality, fun, luxury, prestige, trackable, etc. And PLEASE don't go on and on about modded cars, I am talking STOCK.

Also the argument that $62k is too expensive, "so I'll just get a base (NO options) 911 Carrera S for $84k" is simply ridiculous. Very close performance (likely exceeded in many performance metrics by the E92 M3) less seating, less trunk, but indeed possibly a bit more fun/pure but for 1/3rd more with no options. Come on get real. Don't even get me going about the base 911 (non S) for $74k base it is clearly going to be significantly out performed by the E92 M3. The price of the M3 will not "too high" nor is its price to performance ratio. The price to performance ratio is exactly where the M3 will be unbeatable.

I doubt that almost all those who have this opinion and attitude are seriously in the market for either car.

Now that is a SLAP!

But I agree 100%.