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      03-24-2014, 10:34 PM   #111
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Wish it was smaller. Seen a couple on the track and they have power, but they are bigger than you would expect. What happened to small compact sports cars.
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      03-24-2014, 10:38 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by arter View Post
Wish it was smaller. Seen a couple on the track and they have power, but they are bigger than you would expect. What happened to small compact sports cars.
Americans don't fit into them.
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      03-26-2014, 08:30 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
I think it's pretty cool but only 500hp from a 7 liter engine? 7 liters ?!?! That's disappointing. Also it's still monstrously huge and poor visibility.
Seems you need a ride in my Z06 (same engine), it'll make you a believer in a few seconds -

I ran a 1:38 on worn street tires at Pacific with this engine on my first track day in my Z06. On R-Comps and with practice, there's atleast 4-5 seconds to be gained.

the LS7 engine is one of the most amazing engines I've ever owned! Extremely linear and predictable at the track, monster torque and power that is always there. At WOT, you'd better hold on because that torque wave hits you hard! I had to manage my throttle very carefully at the track and there were only 2-3 places where I could dare go WOT. The event I attended was the proformance afternoon lapping and as its open lapping, I went and lapped for about one hour straight and the engine coolant temp never got over 195F and engine oil never over 235!!

Yes the Z06 is much lighter but the new Z28 is the real deal - conceptually very similar to the Z06. its going to be an amazing car with a monster engine, sticky tires, awesome brakes, great suspension and lots of cooling.. I think its a great deal for a HPDE driver looking for a turnkey track car fully under warranty. Requires no mods to go crazy fast.

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      09-10-2014, 08:24 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
I don't hate American. The fact is that no matter how hard they try, American manufacturers fall short of the supreme balance and sophistication found in the high end European cars. The one car that has changed that is the C7 Corvette, but the Camaro? It is a brutal muscle car.
Thats where you are wrong. GM asked Holden to develop the Camaro for very little money. Holden's Zeta that IS the Camro is closer to BMW/European balance than to Chevy/American straight line monster. Holden actually bench marked BMW and had a German running the show for Zeta. Cars like the VXR8, Camaro, and the Chevy SS sedan have impressed in handling because they are essentially Holden developed.

How good are Holden compared to your typical GM? Well in 2000 Car UK took a 402hp HSV GTS around the Nurburgring and it lapped faster than the current CTS-Vsport.

Even Car and Driver had this to say when it tested the 2000 GTS.
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The GTS R is no M5, but it's closer in constitution than anything we've driven and anything we ever expected to drive from General Motors.
Check out the very early Camaro mules with Holden Commodore skin.


Then the actual Camaro skin.
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      09-10-2014, 05:03 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
the LS7 engine is one of the most amazing engines I've ever owned! Extremely linear and predictable at the track, monster torque and power that is always there. At WOT, you'd better hold on because that torque wave hits you hard!
Doesn't change the fact that if one of the good european manufacturers would develop a NA 7L engine, it would make the same torque and 200 BHP more.

I think that was the other guy's point.
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      09-11-2014, 12:10 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Doesn't change the fact that if one of the good european manufacturers would develop a NA 7L engine, it would make the same torque and 200 BHP more.

I think that was the other guy's point.
You're assuming multi-valve technology for the Euro engine, and in that case, you'd be correct - except the Euro engine would also tend to make more torque as well.

But the rest of the story is that the 7-liter Vette/Z28 motor is slightly more compact overall than the 4-liter V8 in the last M3, and weighs just about the same as the 414 HP Bimmer motor.

So installed in an E9X chassis, the Z06 motor would be a killer, performance-wise, and with 15/24 EPA mileage in the Vette, would likely be a little better on gas as well.

The 7-liter Euro motor would be a fair bit bigger and heavier than the Z06 powerplant. It's basically all in the heads.
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      09-11-2014, 08:48 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
You're assuming multi-valve technology for the Euro engine, and in that case, you'd be correct - except the Euro engine would also tend to make more torque as well.

But the rest of the story is that the 7-liter Vette/Z28 motor is slightly more compact overall than the 4-liter V8 in the last M3, and weighs just about the same as the 414 HP Bimmer motor.

So installed in an E9X chassis, the Z06 motor would be a killer, performance-wise, and with 15/24 EPA mileage in the Vette, would likely be a little better on gas as well.

The 7-liter Euro motor would be a fair bit bigger and heavier than the Z06 powerplant. It's basically all in the heads.
All true.

I think you make size more important than it really is. Either engine dissappears in the engine bay of an E90 sized car.

Look at the positively huge sedans that Chevy installs LS engines in - wouldn't make a lick of difference of the engine had overhead cams or not. Just as it wouldn't make a difference in the Vette.

And if they supercharge/intercool it in the Z06, then the weight and size issue are pretty much irrelevant. So the main reason they extracted power via supercharging is because it's an easier solution, not because it's better.

Just my opinion.


I'll also be curious to see if Chevy has a problem in their hand with the Stingray engine - if there will be more track engine failures like the one at C&D lightning lap, or if that was just an isolated incident.
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      09-11-2014, 08:54 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Doesn't change the fact that if one of the good european manufacturers would develop a NA 7L engine, it would make the same torque and 200 BHP more.

I think that was the other guy's point.
*if*

... in the meantime I will enjoy my LS7 on the track...
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      09-11-2014, 11:41 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
All true.

I think you make size more important than it really is. Either engine dissappears in the engine bay of an E90 sized car.

Look at the positively huge sedans that Chevy installs LS engines in - wouldn't make a lick of difference of the engine had overhead cams or not. Just as it wouldn't make a difference in the Vette.

And if they supercharge/intercool it in the Z06, then the weight and size issue are pretty much irrelevant. So the main reason they extracted power via supercharging is because it's an easier solution, not because it's better.

Just my opinion.


I'll also be curious to see if Chevy has a problem in their hand with the Stingray engine - if there will be more track engine failures like the one at C&D lightning lap, or if that was just an isolated incident.
Engine size is more important that what you think; it has to deal with design of the car, suspension, brakes, etc. Mass has a lot to do with how a car performs while moving.
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      09-11-2014, 11:53 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
*if*

... in the meantime I will enjoy my LS7 on the track...
By all means, although that wasn't the topic of that reply. I continue to enjoy my S65 on track, so what.

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Originally Posted by longbow0404 View Post
Engine size is more important that what you think; it has to deal with design of the car, suspension, brakes, etc. Mass has a lot to do with how a car performs while moving.
If that is the case, how come the C7 with all this weight saving technology is only 50-100lbs lighter than an M4, which seats 4?

In the case of the LS7 vs say the S65, the weight difference is what, 20-30 lbs at most. We're talking minute amounts compared to the overall weight of the car.


That doesn't mean people should stop enjoying it, I simply disagree about it being some sort of world class engineering. And it's my personal opinion of course, I don't begrudge anybody their car choice.
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      09-15-2014, 05:18 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
By all means, although that wasn't the topic of that reply. I continue to enjoy my S65 on track, so what.



If that is the case, how come the C7 with all this weight saving technology is only 50-100lbs lighter than an M4, which seats 4?

In the case of the LS7 vs say the S65, the weight difference is what, 20-30 lbs at most. We're talking minute amounts compared to the overall weight of the car.


That doesn't mean people should stop enjoying it, I simply disagree about it being some sort of world class engineering. And it's my personal opinion of course, I don't begrudge anybody their car choice..
I'm sorry my friend but Your statement is all over the place

Cheers

Last edited by longbow0404; 09-16-2014 at 07:54 AM..
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      09-15-2014, 06:25 PM   #122
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[QUOTE=longbow0404;16637935]
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
By all means, although that wasn't the topic of that reply. I continue to enjoy my S65 on track, so what.



If that is the case, how come the C7 with all this weight saving technology is only 50-100lbs lighter than an M4, which seats 4?

In the case of the LS7 vs say the S65, the weight difference is what, 20-30 lbs at most. We're talking minute amounts compared to the overall weight of the car.


That doesn't mean people should stop enjoying it, I simply disagree about it being some sort of world class engineering. And it's my personal opinion of course, I don't begrudge anybody their car choice.[/

I'm sorry my friend but Your statement is all over the place

Cheers

a c6 z06 is MUCH lighter than any e9x.
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      09-16-2014, 09:16 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow0404 View Post


a c6 z06 is MUCH lighter than any e9x.
and a z/28 weighs pretty much the same as an M3. I don't understand why people complain about the weight of the z/28 so much. It really boggles my mind!
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      09-16-2014, 09:39 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
and a z/28 weighs pretty much the same as an M3. I don't understand why people complain about the weight of the z/28 so much. It really boggles my mind!
Weight is the enemy of any track car more than lack of power. Add lightness!
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      09-16-2014, 09:46 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Weight is the enemy of any track car more than lack of power. Add lightness!
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere"

I get that! But it doesn't take away from the fact that you can create a phonemonal track car that has extra weight on it.

Looking forward to what chevrolet does with the gen6 camaro. Should have a solid 300 lb weight reduction. I'm trying as hard as I can to hold out for that one!
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      09-16-2014, 10:05 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere"

I get that! But it doesn't take away from the fact that you can create a phonemonal track car that has extra weight on it.

Looking forward to what chevrolet does with the gen6 camaro. Should have a solid 300 lb weight reduction. I'm trying as hard as I can to hold out for that one!
I want a 2500lb car with ls7 power level, someday.
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      09-16-2014, 11:45 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
I want a 2500lb car with ls7 power level, someday.
There was a guy with an LS Miata on the forums. Full hardtop aero conversion, ramped up LS (not sure which), the whole nine yards.

I'm not sure my driving skills are up for something like this, not even close.
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      09-16-2014, 11:53 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow0404 View Post
I'm sorry my friend but Your statement is all over the place

Cheers
I didn't mean to be obtuse or flippant, so let me rephrase.

Topic 1: A 20-30lbs difference in engine weight (which is the difference between the S65 and the LS7) means absolutely nothing in the context of a 3500 lbs car. Literally it is not measurable performance wise.

Topic 2: despite the advantageous construction of the C7, using aluminum this, CF that and a super duper lightweight engine, it weighs only 50lbs less than a 4 seat coupe. In the context of a conversation where less weight means more performance, this is not very impressive. Or perhaps the M4's weight achievement should be given more credit.
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      09-16-2014, 01:15 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
I want a 2500lb car with ls7 power level, someday.
Check out the factory five GTM. That's exactly what you are looking for!!!

https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/
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      09-16-2014, 01:25 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
There was a guy with an LS Miata on the forums. Full hardtop aero conversion, ramped up LS (not sure which), the whole nine yards.

I'm not sure my driving skills are up for something like this, not even close.
Yeah me either yet. Gonna continue to develop my e46, lowering the weight and upping the power as I go.
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      09-16-2014, 01:28 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
Check out the factory five GTM. That's exactly what you are looking for!!!

https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/
Very interesting but I would spend 10 yrs building it.
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      09-16-2014, 02:32 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
I want a 2500lb car with ls7 power level, someday.
You can get pretty close with a c6 z06 I imagine as that car is 3000 lbs
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