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09-05-2013, 10:34 PM | #45 | |
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smarter software?!
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I am not going to debate which ecu is more "complex"...I frankly don't know. I also don't think you realize how complex modern ecu's are regardless of car the model & brand. Its irrelevant either way. I recall the 5.0 ecu leaned out one of the cylinders at sustained wot. It took 2 years before someone stumbled on to it while data logging to solve the mystery of why motors were blowing up. I guarantee you the Ford tuning community is bigger and has access to inside information on the same level as THE TECH claims from BMW. Just because someone bribed an insider into leaking industrial secrets (that is what the factory engineering documents are) does not mean that they understand how those 12,000 maps actually interact. Like I said, I'm very much looking forward to seeing data from Mike's sc tunes and will happily fork over $ once reliable data appears to back things up. If anything it may prompt ESS and VF into expanding their tuning offering to include meth, e85, race gas, etc...Free market competition is a wonderful thing for us |
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09-05-2013, 10:35 PM | #46 |
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Agreed. It's funny people can accept that test pipes from different companies are basically equally quality (ACM, Turner, etc.) but can't accept tunes from BPM Sport, Evolve, and ESS being more or less equal.
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09-05-2013, 10:36 PM | #47 |
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Excuse my ignorance, but why would not recording max RPM be a good thing? The only reason I could think is that you don't want BMWNA knowing. But the fact that they can't view it (max RPM)will tell them their is a tune of some sort and create a possible problem in regards to warranty, right?
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09-05-2013, 10:41 PM | #48 | |
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09-05-2013, 10:58 PM | #49 | |
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Last edited by DansM; 09-05-2013 at 11:11 PM.. |
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09-05-2013, 11:54 PM | #50 | |
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I look forward to any empirical data you chose to share with the community. |
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09-06-2013, 02:42 AM | #51 | ||
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09-06-2013, 06:03 AM | #52 |
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Waiting on Dyno's
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09-06-2013, 12:16 PM | #53 |
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1. What was used to do the logging?
2. Benvo hacked into/broke ESS lock on the tuning file? 3. How was it tuned? Road or dyno? 4. how many hours did he spend tuning it? 5. what fuel was it tuned for? 6. what were the before dyno's? 7. where are the after dyno's? A whole lot of talking with no evidence except for someone claiming- yet again- that this is awesome because i feel the placebo effect but have no actual proof. and 8. why did you want a retune in the first place? |
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09-06-2013, 12:19 PM | #54 | |
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We make tuned files...that is the proof. |
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09-06-2013, 12:23 PM | #55 | |
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The lean condition that happened on the Mustang was a John Lund tune...because of this Ford is really cracking down on tuning these cars. However, Ford Racing Parts offers software with the factory warranty still intact. Something I would love to see BMW do. http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=12346 That being said, for those of you who are doubting Mikes prowess in tuning these cars are selling him short. This guy definitely knows what he is doing. This guy lives, breathes and sleeps code. Dave
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09-06-2013, 12:31 PM | #56 | ||
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09-06-2013, 12:58 PM | #57 |
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Not a fan of a third party tuning someone else's kit, especially if the kit has shown to be just about flawless and by far has sold the most kits with proven reliability and performance. You are not dealing with a questionable company who developed a kit and left the owners out to dry or had a poor tune, it's quite the opposite with ESS, to be frank it's unprofessional for a 3rd party tuner to do this.
Normally when a third party does something like this it's because they feel for whatever reason they have to make some sort of statement, they have to try and make a name for themselves at the expense of others, or they don't have the ability/skill/experience to build their own proven FI kits so they take a short cut, again at someone else's expense. This third party tuner gives no thought or care to all the hard work, time, money and effort that was put into developing the kit by someone else, it's unethical and it crosses the line. I've seen it before in the BMW community as well as in different platforms, and at times I can understand why someone would seek help if the kit is having tuning related problems, and the maker of the kit can't fix it, but like I said that is not the case with ESS. From what I've seen most of the time the customer is initially euphoric with this third party tune, but eventually pays the price. I'm not saying that will happen here, but more than not that is the case. It's your car and you can do whatever you want with it but I would not expect nor would you deserve any support from ESS.
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09-06-2013, 01:01 PM | #58 | |
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09-06-2013, 01:15 PM | #59 | |
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Wait, did you just compare "test pipes" to a tune (NA or Supercharged)? That could be the post of the year!!! LOLLLL
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09-06-2013, 01:18 PM | #60 | |
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+1 Not a gamble i would take. Why mess with a kit/tune that has stood the test of time and MORE than earned it's rep as the best?! To save yourself a few hundred bucks? Penny wise and dollar foolish if you ask me!
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09-06-2013, 01:28 PM | #61 |
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Agreed, and with the ESS tune this non intercooled 550 kit went low 11's, with a great trap, in fact it holds the record for non intercooled setups. I've never heard of one issue or drivability problem with that kit, except from a known detractor, that's one person out of hundreds, easy call there. This whole thing was premeditated and planned for effect, nothing more and I know some will disagree, that's one of the things these forums are for, but it's pathetic and just a little distasteful IMHO.
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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH |
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09-06-2013, 01:31 PM | #62 | |
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these companies are in competition. there is nothing wrong with providing a tune to a buyer of a used kit who requests this service. why exactly does BPM (or anyone for that matter) owe ESS (or anyone from any kit) anything at all? ESS already made their money from selling the kit outright. So now they have a monopoly over anyone who wants to purchase the kit second hand? That's ridiculous and is completely out of line with what a free market is and is supposed to be. The tuner can offer whatever services they like, and the consumer is free to seek out whatever tune they like. You cannot and should not control what people do with their money or cars. IMO your post is way off base and makes little sense. |
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09-06-2013, 01:34 PM | #63 | |
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Who is trying to control what people do with their money!? He offered his opinion...and a very valid one, at that.
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09-06-2013, 01:36 PM | #64 |
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And no....nothing wrong with benvo offering a tune for a kit he didn't design, develop, build or test! IMHO just kinda dumb on the consumers part, but JUSTTTT my opinion.
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09-06-2013, 01:39 PM | #65 | |
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If the business model states that second hand / thrid hand sells will require a new tune (which has to be manufactures) that would be a very poor business model in todays world....especially with the amount of knock-offs in other countries (you can't rely on the income). Note I am in no way saying this is what the manufacturer does, just pointing out why I don't see it as being unethical. And I am no implying anything about ESS as I think they have proven they are quite good with their tuning ability of superchargers. As for the reliability, I haven't been around long enough or tuned as heavy as you so I definitely can see your points there based on your experience. |
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09-06-2013, 01:40 PM | #66 | |
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