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05-08-2009, 02:19 PM | #45 | |
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05-08-2009, 02:37 PM | #46 | |
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Last edited by markinva; 05-08-2009 at 03:01 PM.. |
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05-08-2009, 02:38 PM | #47 | |
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05-08-2009, 05:08 PM | #48 | |
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You said the following was wrong... "The oil change monitor doesn't evaluate the actual oil life remaining, it just uses the amount of fuel used, engine temps metrics etc" It doesn't evaluate life...it just tells you when you're turning your engine to metal shavings or are getting a lot of water into your crankcase (e.g. coolant leak, lots of cold driving, blowby, etc.) I'm not saying the system is worthless- it's very clever. I just wish I knew what sort of engine life they were targeting, what sort of testing backs that up, and what sort of safety factor they have. e.g. in the 80s, Ford thought 60k miles from their FWD automatic transmission was an acceptable design life. In the 90's, when BMW first importated V8s to the US, they quickly failed due to our crappy gas. |
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05-11-2009, 01:22 PM | #49 |
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158k on my '00 323iT using only factory intervals for changes. I don't doubt that maybe more oil changes might add some fuel efficiency or longevitiy but maybe not worth it. It isn't burning or using oil at all.
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05-12-2009, 01:38 AM | #50 | |
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05-13-2009, 12:24 AM | #51 | |||
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Anyhow no matter how you feel about all of this, as a Mechanic I feel that the service intervals are too long...... I base this on teardowns of engines that have had regular maintenance at 8K KM intervals and ones that have had extended 16K KM+ intervals. One thing I can assure you is that you can easily tell the difference in the cleanliness and lower wear on the engines with more frequent oil changes. The damage/wear will not be noticed in the first 160K KM of the engine but will usually start to manifest itself there after. I have said this in another thread, If you are not going to keep your car out of warranty follow their service interval but if you are going to keep your car for the long haul cut their intervals in half at the least. BMW and the other Manufacturers that use the CBS system or other similar system base the service intervals on engineers recommendations. I can tell you this for sure, engineers don't know it all. When we have a failure or issue on our heavy equipment at the mine I work for (Caterpillar 797 and Komatsu 930 Haul trucks) engineers from the manufacturers come looking and taking pictures and asking us for our recommendations and more times than not the mechanics help them with the redesign of the affected components by giving them their input. While engineers are very intelligent individuals nothing beats seeing something work in the real world and even better, seeing it fail and knowing why it did. Engineers know theory from behind a computer screen or from a sheet of paper and that is the problem. something can be engineered to work and be durable and look good on paper but in service it can fail right out of the gate. I am not sure of your profession but my profession is a mechanic, (both automotive and heavy equipment) and I suggest you take some advice from someone who knows. I am not a doctor or lawyer so when it comes to medicine or law I seek their advice. BMW and other car manufacturers that are using CBS or similar systems have two things in mind profit, and environmental relations. From the profit stand point the less maintenance they do inevitably the more parts thay sell in the end after the warranty is up (or the less oil and filters they pay for in the event of paid maintenance) and from the environmental stand point the less waste oil they are producing. To sum up; car companies are profit based and highly scrutinized organizations don't think that all of their motives are pure...... If I ran a business I would spend the least amount of capital I could to keep profit up while maintaining customer satisfaction...... I think this is what is happening BMW and all other manufacturers are walking the fine line of keeping the customer happy while maintaining a good corporate image and maximizing profits.
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Last edited by BMRLVR; 05-13-2009 at 01:13 AM.. |
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05-18-2009, 04:35 AM | #52 |
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I was going through the service mileage and my oil mileage went from 10k to 9k to now 8k, although the monitor reads OK and I recently topped it off a few weeks ago the mileage down for an oil change. I'll see what happens.
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05-18-2009, 09:12 AM | #53 |
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This whole thread is useless without numbers from actual oil analyses. I believe the nay-sayers be surprised at the results that will clearly show that 15k is no problem at all.
I change at 7500 mile intervals for peace of mind, but am sure, absolutely sure, that 15k miles is not a problem. Changing oil at the recommended intervals is better for the environment as well. I just finished a couple of track days that brought my service indicator from 12k miles down to 7k miles. So I feel the service computer is working fine. |
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05-18-2009, 10:13 AM | #54 | |
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05-18-2009, 10:33 AM | #55 | |
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Chaning your oil is not bad for the environment (unless you dump it). If you recycle it, it's usually burned as fuel oil in industrial motors. It saves an equal volume of fuel oil. Environmentally, the question is whether it's better to have your old car last longer, or is it better for it to wear out to get one with the latest technology. Environmentally, that'd be tough to determine. Financially, it's still tough to figure out but probably a bit easier than the environmental figure. An engine that lasts a long time is probably more cost effective. Furthermore, an engine that runs WELL (good compression, etc.) for the vehicles life is more efficient AND better for the environment. |
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05-18-2009, 03:58 PM | #56 | |
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I agree with your first point; I'm obviously not "absolutely sure". On the second point; more goes into an oil change than just switching the oil.
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05-18-2009, 04:51 PM | #57 | |
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In the past, I heard recycled oil was burned as fuel in industrial diesel and heavy-fuel engines (e.g. generators, ships, etc.). However, I heard a rumour that some quick-lube places use actual recycled motor oil. Not so sure about this...If they totally re-refine it, it'd probably be fine, but someone using questionable quality oil probably isn't concerned with engine life anyway. |
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07-14-2009, 11:28 AM | #58 |
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I'm at 150, 000 miles on my 2000 E-46 cpe and I have only used scheduled maintenance, so far it has not used a single drop of oil or had any engine issues!
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07-14-2009, 01:56 PM | #59 |
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To be this issue is like comparing the life expectancy of a fat and an athletic guy; both can live the same years, but which lifestyle do you prefer? Yeah, it's mostly a matter of preference . I prefer a mid-cycle oil change myself, and many oil analysis tests have determined it's best for the engine. Just like an active lifestyle is better than a sedentary one . Good day.
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07-14-2009, 03:47 PM | #60 |
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LOL . . . gotta love this age-old debate since the dawn of CBS indicators. In short, the CBS interval is perfectly fine, and doing is more often than the CBS interval is also perfectly fine. There is no evidence that one is associated with greater (or less) engine longevity than the other.
However, there is a benefit to doing it more often. It makes those owners happy and feeling like they're doing something good. That's worth something.
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07-15-2009, 03:43 PM | #61 |
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as a former BMW service advisor and long time BMW employee, I agree with the misinformation about bmw service intervals and how they are measured.
First off- your warranty ENDS at 50,000 miles. Your warranty period is from 0-49,999 miles. This means, if your motor blows at 50,000 technically BMW can tell you to take a hike. VERY unlikely but its possible! CBS data is determined by MANY different factors. Yes there is an 'oil level sensing unit' that data is pulled from but also variables such as time, temperature, engine load, and mileage driven. BMW does have a good amount of issues with corrupt cbs data and I have seen many customers come in at 30k miles for their first oil change because the cars CBS was WAAYYY off. When I send my oil off occasionally to get it tested, they always come back that the castrol 10-60 oil is good for 4k to 6k miles- the bmw 5w30 for roughly 8k miles. That is just my results- I have seen a lot of sludged motors from people who follow the normal oil intervals as per BMW. on a side note- You ALL know about BMWs lifetime transmission fluid- You know that is BS, what about their "almost lifetime oil changes"?
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07-17-2009, 09:29 PM | #62 | |
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That's what my service advisor told me as well. I put a thread regarding oil change price and people are still debating about this. I drive my car all year long and it's been about a year since my first service so it will be best for the car and my mind to change the oil in between the "recommended" service interval.
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08-07-2009, 04:00 AM | #64 |
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The CBS system does NOT just check the conductivity of the oil, it is also based on how the car is driven - short journeys, long journeys, engine temps, there is more to it than what people are guessing. CBS does extend or reduce the next service depending on how you drive the car i know this because i've seen it happen, when i bought a daily driver - a BMW 318 the service indicater was at 7k after a week the indicater increased to about 10k - i drive 1500 miles a week all on motorways.
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08-07-2009, 06:52 AM | #65 |
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08-07-2009, 06:53 AM | #66 |
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I can say that the CBS is totally B.S. After I had my first oil service at 2000 km CBS showed that 13000 KMs left for second oil service. Now I am at 5600 KM and its showing 8000 KMs left for the service. I visited the service and they reset the CBS nothing has changed. Service tech. advised me to change engine oil at every 10.000 KMs.
Now I am deciding to rely on my own CBS Only parts to replace regularly is air filter, oil filter and engine oil. First oil service at 10.000 KMs. Second at 20.0000 KMs. Third at 30.000 KMs. and this will keep going on at 10.000 KM intervals. I will also change diff and transmission oil at every 30.000 KMs. Nothing will hurt. |
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