New M3/M4 reviews are out, thoughts?

[TrevorM3]

i actually saw a video soundclip of the M starting up and revving. I was appalled, and embarrassed, as well as disgusted all at the same time. I couldn't believe it sounded so terrible. I know everyone is facing stiff competition to add turbo's etc, but i honestly can't even consider getting this car because of how terrible it sounds.

[Someone?]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

The F8X M3/M4 is better than the E9X M3 in all performance categories. You're in denial if you can't accept this. The only thing lacking is the engine sound due to turbo charging. The S55 out performs the S65, but it can't produce the aural sensation of the S54 or S65. I don't think this will be a deal breaker for me as either the MPE or an aftermarket exhaust will fill in the majority of the aural gap.

Originally Posted by Ezio

A lot of people have come to this conclusion that a aftermarket setup will make the m4 a lot better. IMO I have yet to hear any i6 BMW engine with a full exhaust that i loved. You put a full exhaust e92 next to a full exhaust m4 it's still no contest for the e92. I refuse to settle.

The F80 out performers a stock e9X maybe, the problem is , is you Cant tune the F80, which means you cant upgrade the F80, so a $300 set of Swift R spec springs and an Akra exhaust and stgae 2 tune put the E92 ahead with these minimal upgrades, and you cant do any fuckn thing to counter this with the F80, the factory turbos are maxed out at 18psi already, not tunable.
I love new shit, a turbo M sounds like something i would love, but with no real upgrades it sucks to me, and others im sure, BOOOOOO BMW for suckn dick with the F80 engine/ECU set up.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ibmike

The F80 out performers a stock e9X maybe, the problem is , is you Cant tune the F80, which means you cant upgrade the F80, so a $300 set of Swift R spec springs and an Akra exhaust and stgae 2 tune put the E92 ahead with these minimal upgrades, and you cant do any fuckn thing to counter this with the F80, the factory turbos are maxed out at 18psi already, not tunable.
I love new shit, a turbo M sounds like something i would love, but with no real upgrades it sucks to me, and others im sure, BOOOOOO BMW for suckn dick with the F80 engine/ECU set up.

well thats the problem you have, my problem is 100% sound of the car/ lack of emotion.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by ibmike

The F80 out performers a stock e9X maybe, the problem is , is you Cant tune the F80, which means you cant upgrade the F80, so a $300 set of Swift R spec springs and an Akra exhaust and stgae 2 tune put the E92 ahead with these minimal upgrades, and you cant do any fuckn thing to counter this with the F80, the factory turbos are maxed out at 18psi already, not tunable.
I love new shit, a turbo M sounds like something i would love, but with no real upgrades it sucks to me, and others im sure, BOOOOOO BMW for suckn dick with the F80 engine/ECU set up.

You are forgetting a couple of things.....

1. Your aforementioned mods in the e9x will not get you 400 lb-ft of torque

2. What good is it to tune the motor when you are traction limited as to what you can get to the ground anyway? Ask anyone who owns even a stock M5/6. The power is being cut all the time in the first 2 gears, and sometimes even in 3rd.

As a street car, I never considered the M3 to be a tuning platform. It comes really finely honed out of the box. Please note that I consider modding and tuning to be different things. Tuning implies a serious upgrade in performance. Modding may or may not give you this. A front lip isn't "tuning" if you know what I mean. One never wants to mod or tune a car and make it unbalanaced. Now, if you want to go hog wild, and build what is essentially a different car altogether with little more than an M3 body and interior, that is a different matter yet again.

We need to consider that the M3 is, in fact, modded and tuned from the factory. It is an M modded 3 series with almost every performance related component upgraded, a body kit, and nice crate motor. That said, the only real tuning I can see doing to the F8x is lighter wheels, wider tires and a better exhaust. An ECU flash may extract a few more psi of boost however, so it won't be nothing, and will still certainly be more than what you can get from flashing the ECU on the e9x.

Finally, lets face it, until enough people have driven these cars to do an honest back-to-back comparision, we are all speculating.

[deletedelete]

Just be careful not to mention any criticisms of the f8x on their side of the forums. All my posts discussing negative aspects of the car even if it was things that the pro reviewers mentioned were deleted. This site is great for tech help and things like that but it's very propaganda oriented and criticisms aren't allowed.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

Just be careful not to mention any criticisms of the f8x on their side of the forums. All my posts discussing negative aspects of the car even if it was things that the pro reviewers mentioned were deleted. This site is great for tech help and things like that but it's very propaganda oriented and criticisms aren't allowed.

At least you can still post over there

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Ezio

At least you can still post over there

People are being blocked from posting over there?! I don't know if I can still post or not. I haven't tried

[Sered]

Originally Posted by ibmike

The F80 out performers a stock e9X maybe, the problem is , is you Cant tune the F80, which means you cant upgrade the F80, so a $300 set of Swift R spec springs and an Akra exhaust and stgae 2 tune put the E92 ahead with these minimal upgrades, and you cant do any fuckn thing to counter this with the F80, the factory turbos are maxed out at 18psi already, not tunable.
I love new shit, a turbo M sounds like something i would love, but with no real upgrades it sucks to me, and others im sure, BOOOOOO BMW for suckn dick with the F80 engine/ECU set up.

Why would you put an Akra exhaust in your little list there? That's like the worst possible $/hp mod you can make to this platform. Overpriced and overrated.

While I'm not a fan of the F80 so far, especially since no one has released numbers of any kind despite driving them around, the number 18psi is the max boost number, it doesn't state WHERE it is making that amount of boost. I HIGHLY doubt this car is making 18psi towards redline, if it was (and the turbos were still in their efficiency range), we'd see a helluva lot more than ~430hp. The stock 335i turbos will make 430hp easily on just 15-17psi peak and ~12psi at redline (a 6800rpm redline mind you).

I'm pretty sure we need to wait and see the real numbers before bench racing the car vs an E92 with an overpriced fanboy exhaust on it. There's no telling where this car can get improvements from. It's entirely possible BMW ramped up the boost early and tapered it down to redline to maintain a flat torque band. There might be a lot more room up top to expand.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

Just be careful not to mention any criticisms of the f8x on their side of the forums. All my posts discussing negative aspects of the car even if it was things that the pro reviewers mentioned were deleted. This site is great for tech help and things like that but it's very propaganda oriented and criticisms aren't allowed.

Its a joke. I've had many of my posts deleted because the koolaid gang doesnt agree with my disagreeing. It has to be 100% positive toward BMW or you're a troll.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by swanson

Its a joke. I've had many of my posts deleted because the koolaid gang doesnt agree with my disagreeing. It has to be 100% positive toward BMW or you're a troll.

I know it's ridiculous. Some of what I said was just quoting gripes that the pro reviewers stated yet I'm called a troll and told to get a life and literally every post of mine is deleted. Nothing improves or gets better by being on the kool aid bandwagon. Products and businesses need to be openly praised or critiqued truthfully which in the end hopefully develops a better product in the future. Future M's will not get better if it's current shortcomings are never exposed.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

The power delivery alone is better for track use. More torque at lower rpms means less shifting which results in faster lap times.

Not really. Gaining time occurs only for shifts during acceleration, which are mostly WOT. With the DCT these become exceptionally short. Tires and driver make more difference than losses due to shifting (again with DCT). MT is more of a consideration.

[V8FunNaturally]

With car magazine videos i like to pay attention to how excited the voice of the driver sounds which is less biased/tainted by a script. I remember how first E92 videos sounded, at one point or another the drivers would go bezerk, smiling to their ears, giggling or whatever emotional response to an exceptional engine. I don't see that with this m4/m3 eco turbo, including reviews offering "some praise" sound bored (while drifting) and about to take a nap.

While I love the E92 M3 for its formula 1 inspired NA V8 it was not designed to compete with a GT-R, but a twin turbo engine in an M car that won't close the gap with a GT-R is a let down. You have neither the rawness, frantic driving and engine sound of a NA V8 and you're just in another turbo car.

To me, cabin speakers playing engine sound is a bad joke. I would never own any car I don't care what brand or type that tries to be something it is not.

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

i honestly can't even consider getting this car because of how terrible it sounds.

Ditto

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

People are being blocked from posting over there?! I don't know if I can still post or not. I haven't tried

Originally Posted by swanson

Its a joke. I've had many of my posts deleted because the koolaid gang doesnt agree with my disagreeing. It has to be 100% positive toward BMW or you're a troll.

This is where BMW is going. No doubt in my mind that there is a bmw subsidized presence on that forum that got control of the censorship. bmw marketing has become a more prominent voice in the whole bmw philosophy of late.

Who wants a 3.0 liter eco turbo with the same displacement and engine type as the 3.0l liter eco turbo 435i ?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

With car magazine videos i like to pay attention to how excited the voice of the driver sounds which is less biased/tainted by a script. I remember how first E92 videos sounded, at one point or another the drivers would go bezerk, smiling to their ears, giggling or whatever emotional response to an exceptional engine. I don't see that with this m4/m3 eco turbo, including reviews offering "some praise" sound bored (while drifting) and about to take a nap.

While I love the E92 M3 for its formula 1 inspired NA V8. It was not designed to compete with a GT-R, but a twin turbo engine in an M car that won't close the gap with a GT-R is a let down. You have neither the rawness, frantic driving and engine sound of a NA V8 and you're just in another typical turbo car.

To me, cabin speakers playing engine sound is a bad joke. I would never own any car I don't care what brand or type that tries to be something it is not.


Ditto




This is where BMW is going. No doubt in my mind that there is a bmw subsidized presence on that forum that got control of the censorship. bmw marketing has become a more prominent voice in the whole bmw philosophy of late.

Who wants a 3.0 liter eco turbo with the same displacement and engine type as the 3.0l liter eco turbo 435i ?

Not often agreed with you !
But this time............>

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

You can see for yourself in my signature the route I decided to go. The mods also don't delete posts if you disagree with something. The grass is greener on the other side.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Can't wait for all the limp modes and heat soak stories to come up when people start tracking these cars.

[socalm3lover]

Originally Posted by Sered

You mean previews. Every single one of them have given no numbers or anything other than what BMW states. They even state the M3 weighs 80kg less than the E90, which is false, they weigh about the same.

What do you base your confidence in knowing more about the weight than everyone else? Have you weighed one? Actually have some side by side comparison? Some secret source at the factory? Or just keyboard BS?

John

[Kurt_OH]

Turbo lag
Dull sound
Tuned 3 series motor instead of bespoke ///M motor

Went from being special, to just being the fastest 3 series.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

The F8X M3/M4 is better than the E9X M3 in all performance categories. You're in denial if you can't accept this. The only thing lacking is the engine sound due to turbo charging. The S55 out performs the S65, but it can't produce the aural sensation of the S54 or S65. I don't think this will be a deal breaker for me as either the MPE or an aftermarket exhaust will fill in the majority of the aural gap.

This is simply false.

How's the throttle response? Oh yea, if you turn on "super sport" mode you get 7 secs of spooled up turbos; I wonder why they did THAT ? Must be because absent that bandaid, the lag is brutal.

How about the revs? Is a freakin truck motor, with sound to match.

Special? Nope. This is a tuned 335i motor. Same engine as 1/3 of BMW US production, absent the tune.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

Turbo lag
Dull sound
Tuned 3 series motor instead of bespoke ///M motor

Went from being special, to just being the fastest 3 series.

Agreed and when you try to point this out in the hopes that people will complain enough to maybe make a difference in the future you get called a troll and your posts get deleted. This forum and BMW shouldn't have to censor posts. They should have made a car worthy of having an M badge and then the reviewers and people wouldn't have things to complain about.

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

This is simply false.

How's the throttle response? Oh yea, if you turn on "super sport" mode you get 7 secs of spooled up turbos; I wonder why they did THAT ? Must be because absent that bandaid, the lag is brutal.

How about the revs? Is a freakin truck motor, with sound to match.

Special? Nope. This is a tuned 335i motor. Same engine as 1/3 of BMW US production, absent the tune.

The above ignorant post would get my vote for deletion on either forum.

[JRV]

Did anyone notice a review where someone said at idle it sounded like a deisel chatter? Whats funny is that i noticed that on an F32 328i loaner. I really wanted to get the next Gen M3 but oh well. Maybe i will warm up to it but maybe never.

[Justin Case]

Definitely keeping my E92 for a good while. Practical and well, you know.. an amazing piece of engineering! I'll have to test drive the new M3, as we all need to otherwise we are just speculating..

Or do I save, buy a cheap DD and go for a McLaren 650s in a couple of years.. Hmmm...