Custom ECU Tuners

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

240E/241E are not "tunes", they are software versions of a stock BMW file.

Can you clarify? Are you saying that it's possible to retain the Dinan tune after updating to 241E?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

That's the way I understood it too, but I've heard some people say that updating to 2410/241E is just updating the "underlying software", not the actual tune.

No, this is not true...

Look I understand you are new to all this and learning but you're basically replacing the brain in the car. If you replace your own brain, there is only 1 brain that can control your body. Only 1 brain is in control. If you replace the OEM software with a tune software, you are replacing it - it is not separate.

An aftermarket tune is based on an OEM file such as 240E. They make the tune based on the OEM file and modify it. So if Dinan used 100E, you have an Dinan tune based on the 100E OEM file. If they made it on 240E, you have a tune based on the OEM 240E. Without them telling what their base file is, you have no idea what they used.

[SilverSlug]

Again, this is the way I understood it as well. However, some people have proclaimed otherwise, hence why I asked for clarification.

And I won't respond to you calling me "new to all this" for opening discussions based on other people's comments

[Z K]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Again, this is the way I understood it as well. However, some people have proclaimed otherwise, hence why I asked for clarification.

And I won't respond to you calling me "new to all this" for opening discussions based on other people's comments

This is the fundamentals of how a car works. It is the same for every car and every engine management system. The DME/ECU is the brain. Having tuned and modified cars for decades, I know this. Most people who have modified their car know this... but you are learning.

A "tune" is just a modified OEM software. So the OEM "tune" is not called a tune because it is not modified, but it is still a "tune" that controls the engine.

Everyone is telling you the same thing, you are just choosing to interpret it a certain way.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by Z K

This is the fundamentals of how a car works. It is the same for every car and every engine management system. The DME/ECU is the brain. Having tuned and modified cars for decades, I know this. Most people who have modified their car know this... but you are learning.

A "tune" is just a modified OEM software. So the OEM "tune" is not called a tune because it is not modified, but it is still a "tune" that controls the engine.

So are you saying my brain bone is connected to my learning bone?

Thanks for those analogies, and yes… it's the way I've understood it as well, and wasn't sure how it would even be possible to retain a tune if updating the DME, but I'm still learning after all

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Can you clarify? Are you saying that it's possible to retain the Dinan tune after updating to 241E?

As Gossypiboma mentioned earlier, updating the software version will wipe your Dinan tune. Your Dinan dealer will need to reload it after the 241E file is loaded.

Unless you are on a very old software version, there is no benefit to updating. Don't fix what ain't broke.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

As Gossypiboma mentioned earlier, updating the software version will wipe your Dinan tune. Your Dinan dealer will need to reload it after the 241E file is loaded.

Unless you are on a very old software version, there is no benefit to updating. Don't fix what ain't broke.

Indeed, it's how I've always understood it as well. I didn't know how it could be logically possible to retain a tune after updating the DME to newer software/tune.

Some people inferred that updating to 241E was like updating the underlying operating software, while the tune that controls power/torque was something separate, which just isn't the case… The BMW 241E software is the base file that a tuner (ie Dinan) would base their tune off of.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

That's the way I understood it too, but I've heard some people say that updating to 2410/241E is just updating the "underlying software", not the actual tune.

That is only possible if you're using a piggyback ECU or some sort of interceptor box, not with a stock ECU (DME) remap.

[SilverSlug]

That being said, the Dinan tune is based on BMW's latest base file that was available in 2012, which (correct me if I'm mistaking) was 231E, and I don't believe they've updated it since then.

But, 231E was apparently the biggest jump in power from previous versions (~20hp and 8tq on dyno)…

So, I can happily live with another +9hp and +8tq with the Dinan tune (putting me at +29hp and +16tq above the original BMW base tune (080E)… AND I can still pass smog.

I don't imagine 241E can beat that, but it would be cool to test both on a dyno.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

That being said, the Dinan tune is based on BMW's latest base file that was available in 2012, which (correct me if I'm mistaking) was 231E, and I don't believe they've updated it since then.

But, 231E was apparently the biggest jump in power from previous versions (~20hp and 8tq on dyno)…

So, I can happily live with another +9hp and +8tq with the Dinan tune (putting me at +29hp and +16tq above the original BMW base tune (080E)… AND I can still pass smog.

I don't imagine 241E can beat that, but it would be cool to test both on a dyno.

No power gains from flashing different stock files, likely a false-positive result of clearing adaptations.

Dyno a couple of weeks later once adaptation has fully taken place and see if those gains are still there.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

No power gains from flashing different stock files, likely a false-positive result of clearing adaptations.

Dyno a couple of weeks later once adaptation has fully taken place and see if those gains are still there.

Indeed, I'd wait a couple weeks for adaptations to take effect, and choose a day with similar weather conditions.

And did I read you correctly… Are you saying that flashing from 080E to 231E would result in no power gains at all?

[BPMSport]

Will post later this week with an explanation as there seems to be a lot of confusion on this thread about the structure of software and tunes. For now back to this endless pile of work.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Indeed, I'd wait a couple weeks for adaptations to take effect, and choose a day with similar weather conditions.

And did I read you correctly… Are you saying that flashing from 080E to 231E would result in no power gains at all?

Most likely none, you may get a small spike from clearing adaptations.

Updating is a part of maintenance, so it's a good idea to update in your particular case. Replace plugs if they are over 30K mi.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Most likely none, you may get a small spike from clearing adaptations.

Updating is a part of maintenance, so it's a good idea to update in your particular case. Replace plugs if they are over 30K mi.

Hmmm are you sure?? Does this dyno chart look familiar?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Hmmm are you sure?? Does this dyno chart look familiar?

Looks like you're taking things out of context. The original thread was to explain how maintenance can regain lost (not additional) power. That particular M3 had 080E software and old spark plugs.

As stated numerous times, dyno again a couple of weeks later and see if you reach the same power. Or don't - it's your $$.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

As stated numerous times, dyno again a couple of weeks later and see if you reach the same power. Or don't - it's your $$.

Oh okay, so are you saying that when you posted that dyno chart after running those dyno runs, you hadn't waited a couple weeks in between for adaptations?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Oh okay, so are you saying that when you posted that dyno chart after running those dyno runs, you hadn't waited a couple weeks in between for adaptations?

No, the M3 was still strapped to the dyno during the update and plug change.

You're also bumping a 10 year old thread.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Looks like you're taking things out of context. The original thread was to explain how maintenance can regain lost (not additional) power. That particular M3 had 080E software and old spark plugs.

As stated numerous times, dyno again a couple of weeks later and see if you reach the same power. Or don't - it's your $$.

Ah ok, so if older software won't have a difference in power, old spark plugs would result in a 20hp power loss?

Not trying to take anything out of context... I'm still learning here

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

No, the M3 was still strapped to the dyno during the update and plug change.

You're also bumping a 10 year old thread.

Hmmm not to put EAS tush to the fire or anything, but seems a bit _____ to advertise tuning services by posting a "before/after dyno" chart, then later say that very dyno chart is actually inaccurate because you didn't wait for adaptations?

... is that why after 10 years that dyno chart just got deleted from that post

Its stuff like this why I agree with Z K on tuner services. Just saying. Love you either way.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Hmmm not to put EAS tush to the fire or anything, but seems a bit _____ to advertise tuning services by posting a dyno "before/after dyno" chart, then later say that very dyno chart is actually inaccurate because you didn't wait for adaptations?

... is that why that dyno chart just got deleted from that post

Just saying.

Nothing has been deleted. As mentioned before, software updates are not tunes.

About 7 posts ago, you didn't even know what adaptations were, and now you're going on the attack to someone that's been trying to help without trying to sell you something. Do some reading and learn before just asking random questions and spending unneeded money.

[SilverSlug]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Nothing has been deleted. As mentioned before, software updates are not tunes.

About 7 posts ago, you didn't even know what adaptations were, and now you're going on the attack to someone that's been trying to help without trying to sell you something. Do some reading and learn before just asking random questions and spending unneeded money.

I'm very familiar with what adaptations are, Z K assumed I'm "new to all this" and you joined the bandwagon in that assumption.

And I'm honestly not trying to attack you or anyone, just open discourse... I appreciate your feedback, but how would you explain advertising a +20hp increase from a software update by posting that "before/after dyno" chart if now your stance is that software updates don't provide any gains?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686166

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

I'm very familiar with what adaptations are, Z K assumed I'm "new to all this" and you joined the bandwagon in that assumption.

And I'm honestly not trying to attack you or anyone, just open discourse... I appreciate your feedback, but how would you explain advertising a +20hp increase from a software update by posting that "before/after dyno" chart if now your stance is that software updates don't provide any gains?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686166

Again, this was explained in post #103. The gains were reclaimed power as a result of poor maintenance before adding a supercharger, not additional power. 308hp is well below the typical baseline threshold.

Best of luck on your tuning journey.