Active Autowerke or Evolve Catted X Pipe

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve

The Evolve X Pipe has been dyno tested independently many times since its inception in 2013. Its a known quantity. Not sure how you are trying to shade on a product that has been in the market for so long. If it didn't do what is advertised it would be common knowledge.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=891096

We are going through the whole tuning process on this platform again so we can document it with Dragy acceleration times so we will be able to back this up with performance data too.

That’s cool, but that doesn’t change what I said. The power is gained at the merger, where the X creates a scavenging vacuum. Does (your) X pipe make power - well yes. Going to a less restrictive/lower cell count will aid flow, but a properly designed System would have been:

1. Have nothing obstructing the most important part of the flow path - from the header/exhaust manifold for maximum exhaust velocity

2.Modular - allowing the swapping of HFC after the merger

No shade here, I’m well aware of Evolves work, and I’ve never been impressed. From your terrible showings on the N52, to that overpriced Eventuri intake (M2 N55 which strangely has no logs or dynos to accompany it) I’ll stand by previous statement.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by rjsiciliano

Not disagreeing with you but I am pretty sure Evolve has run numerous tests on their products to back up their claims. Is there stuff the cheapest on the market? absolutely not. However to make a statement that the performance does not back up the bling is not a fair judgement either.

Do you have an example of another x pipe that has quality HFC's with dyno testing to back it up that you can still buy right now? Maybe in the past there were cheaper options but not anymore. No one makes mid sections for this platform (With HFC's) except for a select few Evolve being one.

If that’s the case, it’s unfortunate that this platform is being strong armed into paying 3000 for an exhaust section that should cost only $1000 with the HFC.

You’re better off just getting a catless mid section and adding the HFC and resonator after the merger yourself. There aren’t really ‘Bad’ catalyst, unless you’re looking to be emissions compliant - then it would require a higher cell count and more precious metals than most on the market.

[AmuroRay]

I’m back - couldn’t find what should exist - but I got close.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Exhaust/...rs-E9X-M3.html

You’ll note that Bimmerworld puts the exhaust merger closer towards the header banks - likely did some dyno tuning to figure out the optimal location to aid scavenging. If someone wanted to add HFC or resonator, they would just do it after the merger and they would have all the benefits of a superior X pipe, and none of the trade offs

Edit - I didn’t look hard enough:



More torque (a substantial amount more) more power, lower cost - this would be the way everyone should go. And you know that BW has the experience as they actually raced them, and not just drove them around a UK backroad.

This is a full X pipe system - resonated for just over $1000 - tell me what almost 3x cost gets you with Evolve?

[rjsiciliano]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I’m back - couldn’t find what should exist - but I got close.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Exhaust/...rs-E9X-M3.html

You’ll note that Bimmerworld puts the exhaust merger closer towards the header banks - likely did some dyno tuning to figure out the optimal location to aid scavenging. If someone wanted to add HFC or resonator, they would just do it after the merger and they would have all the benefits of a superior X pipe, and none of the trade offs

Edit - I didn’t look hard enough:



More torque (a substantial amount more) more power, lower cost - this would be the way everyone should go. And you know that BW has the experience as they actually raced them, and not just drove them around a UK backroad.

I actually wanted to buy this pipe. Unfortunately, I am not sure you are aware but Bimmerworld will not sell you this pipe unless you have proof that it will not be used on the street. I live in FL with no inspections and they cancelled my order citing I needed to have credentials proving this system would not be used on the street. They were extremely vague in their responses and insinuated asking for pictures as proof too. See this thread for more information.

Kind of sad that there are no good x-pipe options for this platform anymore that aren't $2k+. Someone needs to jump on this opportunity to make serious bank.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by rjsiciliano

I actually wanted to buy this pipe. Unfortunately, I am not sure you are aware but Bimmerworld will not sell you this pipe unless you have proof that it will not be used on the street. I live in FL with no inspections and they cancelled my order citing I needed to have credentials proving this system would not be used on the street. They were extremely vague in their responses and insinuated asking for pictures as proof too. See this thread for more information.

Kind of sad that there are no good x-pipe options for this platform anymore that aren't $2k+. Someone needs to jump on this opportunity to make serious bank.

Are you serious…I just read through that and it’s ridiculous. You’re better off just going to an exhaust shop and doing it yourself. Burns Stainless will sell you a Xpipe for under $400.

[rjsiciliano]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Are you serious…I just read through that and it’s ridiculous. You’re better off just going to an exhaust shop and doing it yourself. Burns Stainless will sell you a Xpipe for under $400.

I am not an expert in welding and steel so if actually is that cheap I agree it seems that the cost effective approach is to have one made. Buy some GESI cats and have them welded into the custom pipe a shop can make.

[AmuroRay]

You don’t have to be an expert or a welder - the X pipe (or any crossover, like a Y pipe) is there to provide scavenging, which is exessentially the gasses create a vacuum that actually pull the exhaust out of the head.

You can see here when he has the air flowing through one pipe, it actually creates a suction effect on the paper over the other.

Ideally, you want the crossover closer to the manifold, I think it’s the 2nd or 3rd harmonic to take advantage of it, which the Evolve and others like it don’t do (they just mimic the factory location - what R&D was done?)

There really isn’t any power to be gained AFTER the merger, which means it’s the most important part of the exhaust system (after the manifold itself) so even if you ran an open exhaust, you would likely make the same power if you had an aftermarket system,

There is one exception - if you had a pipe that created a trumpet/Venturi - in theory it clouds reduce pressure and add power. Otherwise the exhaust is just there to muffler the car, and add on anything else to suit your needs for sound and emissions.
Keep in mind, a bad exhaust system can reduce power by slowing down flow.

The best thing to do is skip the BMW tax and any exhaust shop can make you what you want - it will cost you a fraction and sound and perform better than anything you can buy off the shelf. I’m in Florida too, you might want to check out https://www.trubendz.com/brands/TruB...&sort=featured

They may be able to mock up and make a complete kit for less than 1k - X pipe, muffler and resonator included.

[nycplumber]

Lol at evolve and independent tests. That reminds me of how there intakes made no power, pretty sure it actually losses power but hey they have kewl social media posts and make lots of useless carbon fiber so people think they're some sort of innovators. Now that the BW x pipe isn't available I would say finding a proper fab shop is your best option.

[gilberjj]

I'm glad I found the deal on my ESS catted x-pipe when I had the chance. Many of these x-pipes are simply not available for any amount of money, as the manufacturers are distancing themselves due to EPA threats. Mine sounds like god's chariot, and for that I'm grateful!

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You don’t have to be an expert or a welder - the X pipe (or any crossover, like a Y pipe) is there to provide scavenging, which is exessentially the gasses create a vacuum that actually pull the exhaust out of the head.

You can see here when he has the air flowing through one pipe, it actually creates a suction effect on the paper over the other.

Ideally, you want the crossover closer to the manifold, I think it’s the 2nd or 3rd harmonic to take advantage of it, which the Evolve and others like it don’t do (they just mimic the factory location - what R&D was done?)

There really isn’t any power to be gained AFTER the merger, which means it’s the most important part of the exhaust system (after the manifold itself) so even if you ran an open exhaust, you would likely make the same power if you had an aftermarket system,

There is one exception - if you had a pipe that created a trumpet/Venturi - in theory it clouds reduce pressure and add power. Otherwise the exhaust is just there to muffler the car, and add on anything else to suit your needs for sound and emissions.
Keep in mind, a bad exhaust system can reduce power by slowing down flow.

The best thing to do is skip the BMW tax and any exhaust shop can make you what you want - it will cost you a fraction and sound and perform better than anything you can buy off the shelf. I’m in Florida too, you might want to check out https://www.trubendz.com/brands/TruB...&sort=featured

They may be able to mock up and make a complete kit for less than 1k - X pipe, muffler and resonator included.

So oddly enough, I have been thinking about this, as there isn't an x pipe out there that truly checks all the boxes.

One open question I've got- what does everyone think about having the x being an actual x (like one the bimmberworld x pipe) vs having the two pipes "kiss" instead of a proper x (like in the quoted post, ESS x pipe is also another example). Is there a sound/flow difference? Is one better than the other?

IMHO the ESS x pipe sounds better than the bimmberworld one, and I'm curious if the x design is part of that, considering they are both forward x designs.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by drwankel

So oddly enough, I have been thinking about this, as there isn't an x pipe out there that truly checks all the boxes.

One open question I've got- what does everyone think about having the x being an actual x (like one the bimmberworld x pipe) vs having the two pipes "kiss" instead of a proper x (like in the quoted post, ESS x pipe is also another example). Is there a sound/flow difference? Is one better than the other?

IMHO the ESS x pipe sounds better than the bimmberworld one, and I'm curious if the x design is part of that, considering they are both forward x designs.

Hard to see, but here's a titanium xpipe with titanium HFC & resonators after the with forward X. Weighs about 15 lbs.

Go the custom route!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by nycplumber

Lol at evolve and independent tests. That reminds me of how there intakes made no power, pretty sure it actually losses power but hey they have kewl social media posts and make lots of useless carbon fiber so people think they're some sort of innovators. Now that the BW x pipe isn't available I would say finding a proper fab shop is your best option.

Exactly.

On the N52 platform, their tune made like zero HP, when even the most basic of tunes added something. They did the bare minimum and sold their tune for a premium - they promised a N51 tune, and when a user was testing it (with their oversight) they pulled it and cancelled the test so they didn’t have to admit they were losing power.

The Eventuri intake is my favorite example though, it’s over 1000 for a carbon fiber enclosed filter, and not one dyno chart to back up its claimed performance. The thing is, an intake can and does make power on the N55, theirs just doesn’t. But that doesn’t stop them from charging a BMW tax.

And now on the E90M, they just took the factory design and added a HFC and a resonator, and charged a substantial premium on it. They aren’t an engineering vendor, they are a marketing and lifestyle vendor, and the products reflect that

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by drwankel

So oddly enough, I have been thinking about this, as there isn't an x pipe out there that truly checks all the boxes.

One open question I've got- what does everyone think about having the x being an actual x (like one the bimmberworld x pipe) vs having the two pipes "kiss" instead of a proper x (like in the quoted post, ESS x pipe is also another example). Is there a sound/flow difference? Is one better than the other?

IMHO the ESS x pipe sounds better than the bimmberworld one, and I'm curious if the x design is part of that, considering they are both forward x designs.

Their is an optimal angle to the (I’ve heard something like 15 degrees, but eh) X, just enough to get convergence. Burns collector intersects completely:


https://burnsstainless.com/products/x-y-pipes

Magnaflow, which is what BW uses has a few options:





https://www.magnaflow.com/products/1...rts-tru-x-pipe

I would take any of these - the BW one doesn’t seem the best for ‘flow’ but the results are head and shoulders above the other Aftermarket systems, so it works - but something with a less aggressive angle like the Burns unit or as the user posted above would likely be more optimal. The placement is key though, and BW really did their homework and testing on the placement Vs the other guys.

[recentfuture]

Originally Posted by Jive

In addition to this, cats in this position CAN result in additional pedal vibration (but not always). I had an AA X-pipe and got rid of it for an Akra Eve and pedal vibration went away. Search the forums, this seems to be more common for AA x-pipes.

I've just installed AA midpipe and thought it was installed incorrectly due to this exact symptom.