M3 vs B8 S4

[GewoW]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

Yup, that's how I roll. The boss lady a.k.a social director is in charge in our house. That reminds me, I have to submit a proposal for a new x-pipe, and a new watch.... wish me luck!

don't forget the references!

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

The tune does not stress any of the parts as unbelievable as that may be.

Ok. This is the core of our conversation. This is the only thing I have talked about in this whole exchange, except for my curiosity about trolling. A little background. I have a degree in chemical engineering, and I have worked for 15 years in heavy industrial environments (refineries, power plants, etc), which means I know a little something about pumps and motors. This statement ABSOLUTELY 100% PROVES to me that you don't.

[Advskier]

Originally Posted by Advskier

He drives an Audi, so he couldn't be interested in handling

Only a troll looking for trouble couldn't see this was a joke.
Of course, all the other trolls have to join in with the "fanboi" remarks.
I've actually owned more Porsche's than BMW's, and quite a few other brands as well.
If I was still driving a Porsche I wouldn't be hanging around an M3 forum waving my dick around.

And seriously, why would an S4 owner hang out on an M3 site trying to compare cars?
And then to go on to call M3 owners fanbois? You don't see us on Audi sites bashing Audi and insulting Audi owners.

Enjoy your S4's.

[graider]

joe, did you have your dct lack issue resolved?

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

What a bunch of retards. Both sides, but mostly the M3 fanboys. LOSERS.

I'm on my third M3. I've had two 2002s. Five BMWs. I've owned an Audi RS6 and a couple of A4s.

All eight cars have distinctly different personalities. I've had things I liked and things I didn't like about each.

To come on this forum and state one car is better than the other is ignorant and shows quite clearly the immaturity of the poster.

Good luck, fanboys.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

1. Supercharger is under same load no matter if tune or no tune because pulley is not changed hence supercharger is not spinning faster.
2. Supercharger is driven by a belt so when you have the car at 7200rpm the charger is spinning at AAAA RPM so a tune will change nothing when the car is going at 7200rpm.
3. The stock setup basically has the pressure at 12psi of boost at 5000rpm and then the valve vents the rest of the boost 5000rpm onwards but the supercharger is still producing 21psi of boost.
4. Tune basically redirects the boost towards the engine rather than bleeding it off so the supercharger is still providing 21psi but the engine is using the full boost.
5. So nothing has changed for the supercharger so how is it stressed?
6. Engine internals are minimally stressed even if it is at all since at 5000rpm the engine was getting 21psi of boost anyways just now the tune is providing this all the way to 7200rpm so the tune does not exceed the stock boost levels just provides it a tad longer.
So explain to me how the engine internals are affected. Oh thermally the intercoolers on the S4 can handle the tune because Vag-com indicates no significant increase in temps.
Still don't see too much problems yet same for 335i owners who have been running their turbo cars and they don't have too many blown engines yet though their as been a few but their turbo setup is different.
Like I said I have a modded 2000 A4 from 155hp and 155torque and it is now producing 225hp and 255 torque and it is 10years and no problem.

You can say what you like but rather than give me book application education crap please apply it to this setup for the explanation and stop telling others of your credentials etc. because it doesn't mean crap if you can't apply it to this situation to explain how it is stressed. If you want to refute it us my explanation to explain how I am wrong.
Let me ask how many FI cars have you owned and modified? Another question is if you modify your M3 what makes it different that you think it won't also be stressed?

You just don't get it, do you?

You are wrong, and apparently no amount of intelligent informed dialogue will convince you otherwise. He did explain how you were wrong, but you just don't get it.

Go ahead. Continue to dig that hole deeper and deeper.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

1. Supercharger is under same load no matter if tune or no tune because pulley is not changed hence supercharger is not spinning faster.
2. Supercharger is driven by a belt so when you have the car at 7200rpm the charger is spinning at AAAA RPM so a tune will change nothing when the car is going at 7200rpm.
3. The stock setup basically has the pressure at 12psi of boost at 5000rpm and then the valve vents the rest of the boost 5000rpm onwards but the supercharger is still producing 21psi of boost.
4. Tune basically redirects the boost towards the engine rather than bleeding it off so the supercharger is still providing 21psi but the engine is using the full boost.
5. So nothing has changed for the supercharger so how is it stressed?
6. Engine internals are minimally stressed even if it is at all since at 5000rpm the engine was getting 21psi of boost anyways just now the tune is providing this all the way to 7200rpm so the tune does not exceed the stock boost levels just provides it a tad longer.
So explain to me how the engine internals are affected. Oh thermally the intercoolers on the S4 can handle the tune because Vag-com indicates no significant increase in temps.
Still don't see too much problems yet same for 335i owners who have been running their turbo cars and they don't have too many blown engines yet though their as been a few but their turbo setup is different.
Like I said I have a modded 2000 A4 from 155hp and 155torque and it is now producing 225hp and 255 torque and it is 10years and no problem.

You can say what you like but rather than give me book application education crap please apply it to this setup for the explanation and stop telling others of your credentials etc. because it doesn't mean crap if you can't apply it to this situation to explain how it is stressed. If you want to refute it us my explanation to explain how I am wrong.
Let me ask how many FI cars have you owned and modified? Another question is if you modify your M3 what makes it different that you think it won't also be stressed?

Hahahaha... yeah I'm dense. I showed this thread to a couple of my dense engineer friends today... none of us know a damn thing about mechanical topics... we all got a good laugh. Do you work for a tuner or something? Here's what I think... You should tach out your brand new chipped S4 at EVERY opportunity... see how long it holds up!

For what it's worth, I don't plan on modding my M3... It's plenty fast right out of the box.

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

You just don't get it, do you?

You are wrong, and apparently no amount of intelligent informed dialogue will convince you otherwise. He did explain how you were wrong, but you just don't get it.

Go ahead. Continue to dig that hole deeper and deeper.

I think you summed it up well... Some people just don't get it.

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

1. Supercharger is under same load no matter if tune or no tune because pulley is not changed hence supercharger is not spinning faster.
2. Supercharger is driven by a belt so when you have the car at 7200rpm the charger is spinning at AAAA RPM so a tune will change nothing when the car is going at 7200rpm.
3. The stock setup basically has the pressure at 12psi of boost at 5000rpm and then the valve vents the rest of the boost 5000rpm onwards but the supercharger is still producing 21psi of boost.
4. Tune basically redirects the boost towards the engine rather than bleeding it off so the supercharger is still providing 21psi but the engine is using the full boost.
5. So nothing has changed for the supercharger so how is it stressed?
6. Engine internals are minimally stressed even if it is at all since at 5000rpm the engine was getting 21psi of boost anyways just now the tune is providing this all the way to 7200rpm so the tune does not exceed the stock boost levels just provides it a tad longer.
So explain to me how the engine internals are affected. Oh thermally the intercoolers on the S4 can handle the tune because Vag-com indicates no significant increase in temps.
Still don't see too much problems yet same for 335i owners who have been running their turbo cars and they don't have too many blown engines yet though their as been a few but their turbo setup is different.
Like I said I have a modded 2000 A4 from 155hp and 155torque and it is now producing 225hp and 255 torque and it is 10years and no problem.

You can say what you like but rather than give me book application education crap please apply it to this setup for the explanation and stop telling others of your credentials etc. because it doesn't mean crap if you can't apply it to this situation to explain how it is stressed. If you want to refute it us my explanation to explain how I am wrong.
Let me ask how many FI cars have you owned and modified? Another question is if you modify your M3 what makes it different that you think it won't also be stressed?

My background is not engineering but I can use some common sense to try and explain what the added stress is they are talking about...

Ok lets picture me on a stationary bike at the Gym... Now lets say I get the bike up to 40 KMPH with the tensioner set at zero... I can run this speed pretty long because there is no tension/resistance.

Now picture me maintaining this speed but increasing the tension ... To spin it at the same 40 KMPH I am now pulling a sweat because now I have tension that is causing resistance and I can not maintain it long(or load for the car).

I may be completely off but it does make sense... LOL

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by M3 Montreal

My background is not engineering but I can use some common sense to try and explain what the added stress is they are talking about...

Ok lets picture me on a stationary bike at the Gym... Now lets say I get the bike up to 40 KMPH with the tensioner set at zero... I can run this speed pretty long because there is no tension/resistance.

Now picture me maintaining this speed but increasing the tension ... To spin it at the same 40 KMPH I am now pulling a sweat because now I have tension that is causing resistance and I can not maintain it long(or load for the car).

I may be completely off but it does make sense... LOL

Here's another analogy. Blow through a thin straw with a small hole in the side. Without changing how hard you blow, cover the end of the straw so that all the air is venting out the small hole. You should notice that it's slightly harder to blow out that small hole. Similar thing going on with the supercharger. The load is not all from the drive side. Providing more boost for the engine creates extra heat and stress on the mechanical parts of the supercharger. There is no free lunch.

[ching]

We should start a thread on if whether blondes, redheads or brunettes are better. It's just as hard to draw a conclusion, and we'd still have the senseless debate, but at least we would get a few nice pics out of such a thread. This thread is useless, except as comic relief.

p.s.: there's a bizzare debate in the thread that tunes don't stress engines?! If you believe the Audi engineers left [50] hp on the table with no side effects...

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by ching

We should start a thread on if whether blondes, redheads or brunettes are better. It's just as hard to draw a conclusion, and we'd still have the senseless debate, but at least we would get a few nice pics out of such a thread. This thread is useless, except as comic relief.

p.s.: there's a bizzare debate in the thread that tunes don't stress engines?! If you believe the Audi engineers left [50] hp on the table with no side effects...

Actually they do...

Proof is the C63 detuned engine.

Don't forget that Audi has a NA RS5. Do you think they would want their S4 to outperform their RS5?

I have friends with over 100,000 kms on their tuned 335's with no ill effects other than the dreaded HPFP failure.

Yes I can agree there is more stress with more boost but they are made to take a lot more than what they are putting out.

Whats funny (I do track) is that so many M3 owners don't ever track their cars or don't on a regular basis so to say the S4 or a 335 is not a comparison on spirited street driving is just being a fanboy.

[brava09]

These S4 owners won't leave our forum, will they?

Must be very boring on the lesser brand forums for them

M3 is the top dog in its class, as it's proved by countless comparo tests


Don't sweat it , lesser brands fanboys

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by brava09

These S4 owners won't leave our forum, will they?

Must be very boring on the lesser brand forums for them

M3 is the top dog in its class, as it's proved by countless comparo tests


Don't sweat it , lesser brands fanboys

Tard of the day.

[BMoney]

Originally Posted by brava09

These S4 owners won't leave our forum, will they?

Must be very boring on the lesser brand forums for them

M3 is the top dog in its class, as it's proved by countless comparo tests


Don't sweat it , lesser brands fanboys

This would be why BMW owners get a bad wrap....

[M3 Montreal]

Originally Posted by brava09

These S4 owners won't leave our forum, will they?

Must be very boring on the lesser brand forums for them

M3 is the top dog in its class, as it's proved by countless comparo tests


Don't sweat it , lesser brands fanboys

Ummmm can you read?? I own the S4 AND the E92 M3. Stop being such a fanboy and come up with better remarks please.

[switchface]

Sheesh, some of you guys are something else.

I currently own an Audi b5 s4 with over 120k miles. Its been stage 2 since 70k and I've had no issues with my tune. I love the car, but would consider any good car by any make that ticks the right buttons as its replacement.

Both the m3 and s4 are great cars with different benefits and drawbacks. Many people are cross shopping the two (like myself) in addition to other cars, which might not directly compare (I'm also looking at a Cayman S).

The reason some Audi owners are over here is because we are enthusiasts that are interested in cars in general. I'm on many forums: Audizine, 6speed, Planet-9, mbworld, and I joined here because I am considering an e92 m3.

I won't speak for all Audi owners, but the reason there is interest in a tuned b8 vs m3 race/thread is because the m3 is a proven benchmark in many performance aspects and the b8 platform is showing a lot of potential. Does a tuned s4 beating a m3 in a drag race mean the s4 is king and the m3 sucks? Of course not. But its safe to say we're all excited and curious to find out how things stack up!

Trolling is when you start a thread to show off your new ride/mod and I come in and say, "thats ugly, BMWs suck, (insert car here) rules!" You are not trolling when you are in the designated M3 vs... category, discussing how one car matches up to another. There are virtues to be had for both cars, in each individual's mind, better is subjective. Not everyone is taking their car to the track (where I'd reach for the m3's keys).

You hate to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch, but its the elitist fanboy view some of you guys have that, sadly makes me want to steer clear of a great car. A healthy community is important to enthusiasts. Another b5 s4 owner once saw me with a flat tire, pulled over, and gave me (a complete stranger) his full size spare with no strings attached so i could get home! We are good friends still to this day.

There are a lot of smart, good-hearted enthusiasts on this forum...its a shame they get grouped in and lost by the stereotype some of you create.

[bobbyd1961]

s4 does not compare with the M3 and whats shocking about the audi is the skyhigh price

[Radiation Joe]

Oh well. Not much we can do about the juvenile fanboys.

I've been on the Audi boards and a couple of M3 boards for about 5 years. The Audi boards are typically more civil and I find the Audi folks seem to have a much better sense of humor.

I'm still on the M3 boards because that's what I'm driving, but the fanboys are really annoying. What's even more annoying is that most of them don't even drive an M3. Then there are the dorks that do drive M3s but think they're some sort of status symbol. If you equate your self worth to what you drive, you may be a candidate for therapy.

I never try to convince others that my car is better. I always strive to emulate my hero.

[PKL]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

s4 does not compare with the M3 and whats shocking about the audi is the skyhigh price

A new S4 is $15k less than a new M3, both cars "loaded"?

[ihyln]

fully loaded S4 clocks in at around 64k on audiusa.com's site. A fully optioned E90 is around 73k.

[ihyln]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

That is inaccurate.

A $60k optioned S4 would cost $73,635 for a similiar optioned M3. That is a $13K difference. Many options beyond a $60K S4 the M3 doesn't provide those options so you can't compare a fully optioned S4 to the $73k M3.
The key though is that the price difference in other countries is much larger.

there are some options the S4 has that the M3 doesn't have and vice versa. Let's call it a wash?

Point is, you don't have to load up either car but at that price range why go with the slower S4?

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

That is inaccurate.

A $60k optioned S4 would cost $73,635 for a similiar optioned M3. That is a $13K difference. Many options beyond a $60K S4 the M3 doesn't provide those options so you can't compare a fully optioned S4 to the $73k M3.
The key though is that the price difference in other countries is much larger.

For me it was 61500 for S4 comparable to my M3 with 71000 MSRP (it is 09 though), and M3 has some minor things Audi does not have (that is besides all the major things, of course).

Anyway, I had a chance to run with some new tuned S4's at a track during an Audi Club even, and there is no comparison on the track. Despite being close to equal on straights, they could not hold on in corners as well, and seemed to get noticeably slower closer to the end of session (probably heatsoak or tire overheating). The difference was big enough for a noticeably more experienced driver to be slower in S4.

Having said that, I'd probably take S4 over M3, if I had another car for track. Well, in that case I'd actually take Audi Allroad over any of those, but Audi was "smart" enough to discontinue it.

Not sure if I really have a point here - probably what I'm trying to say, which car is better is very much defined by personal criteria and intended use. Abstract debates have no right answer.

[ss134]

S4 is a great car but totally different to the M3 - they are not competitors here in Germany at all, price or performance wise.