2011 335is: Is anyone else a little pissed?

[adc]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I just looked at my pricing guide for 2010 model year and there is a difference of $19100 between a 335 cab M sport & a M3 cab with the same options.The $19100 more would have taken a BMW out of consideration for my wife for sure.

335 Cab M Sport is different than 335is Cab.

335 Cab M Sport starts at $56k, 335is Cab starts at $59k.
M3 Cab starts at $67k.

I think it's exactly the same price difference as between the Coupes.

And Canadian pricing might be different.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by adc

335 Cab M Sport is different than 335is Cab.

335 Cab M Sport starts at $56k, 335is Cab starts at $59k.
M3 Cab starts at $67k.

I think it's exactly the same price difference as between the Coupes.

And Canadian pricing might be different.

I am aware they are not the same as I was only using that as a comparision.A base 335 cab is $62245 and the Mcab starts at $81900 but to do a direct comparision to USD is useless as the standard equipment in Canada is usually more complete.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

///M division should do one more N/A marvel before emissions and governing bodies tie there hands!

I would love to see the CSL S54 in the new 1 series 360HP N/A high revving inline 6. A turbo motor can't replicate this engine.


Well i'm just dreaming so well wait and see what kind of powerplant the ///M division decides on?

The M (1 series) won't get a N/A engine, it just ain't going to happen. BMW like all mainstream manufacturers have had to adopt almost exclusively FI unit for their quickest of models. The only thing you can hope for is the M-Division are as knowledgeable at building FI engines as they were at building N/A engines.

[graider]

Originally Posted by Railgun

It's pretty funny looking at how some berate the 335 fanboys before anything is really said and all M owners are all up on the pedestal themselves...

So much for objectivity.

My take, using a page out of that book above is this...

Yes, the M is an M and the 335 will never be. That's all fine and dandy and I get that. But look at the points that are being argued...

Sound of the motor. Ok, that's nice. But that doesn't buy you any performace points.

Looks. Ok, still no points.

LSD. Big advantage...if you're on a track which I'm willing to bet 90% of you don't come close to driving on.

Suspension. Another advantage, but again, those trackless types will never know the difference.

Basically, it sounds to me like a lot of you care more about the status and looks than anything else. How superficial of you all. Hey, it's your prerogative.

The fact that the 335is is coming as close to day to day performance of an M should bother some of you, but given the above it obviously doesn't.

Those that said 335 owners wish they could afford an M are just proving my point that it's status and they think they're better than everyone else. That statement alone proves that's far from the truth.

That being said, I'm getting an M in a few months. Not because I can now afford it. Not because I want to be cool. Not because I think the 335 is weak sauce. Rahter, just because I want one. I will track it as I have the 335 and many others. Does the 335is pique my interest? Yeah, but I've had enough issues with the N54. And no, not the HPFP. That doesn't affect every car.

what exactly are you trying to say then.

if it is not for the sound, then why do most exotic has screaming sound?
if it is not for the look, then why don't we drive corolla?

WHY?

[hooligan55]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

How many here have watched the auto spied vid on the new 335is and came away feeling that BMW is making the 335 just a bit too close to the M3 for considerably less money.

Further, they have the thing set up with a very aggressive sports exhaust, a really nice steering wheel and a bunch of other really nice touches that are not available on the M3. There is even a button that allows 7 seconds of 375 ft/lbs of torque when you want it... awesome new headlights and interior finishes.

I feel these "special" items should be reserved for those that are paying top dollar for the M cars, and I fully intend to write BMW NA (the president of North American sales, perhaps) and let them know I am not happy. I have purchased 12 or 13 BMW's going back through the years and for the first time I feel like I am on the shitty end of the stick here.

Am I the only one feeling like this?

I care. They are diluting the brand equity and/or premium I paid for the M3. It may be minute, but this will surely impact the market trade in value I receive for my M3 when I get a new vehicle. Anything that cannabalizes M3 demand hurts its overall value, new or used. That's how a free market economy works.

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by NYSPEM3

If I want a souped-up 335, I'd just get the 335 and spend a few thousand dollars on Dinan stuff.
Not to mention that 335is is getting close, price wise, to a stripper M3 sedan. I believe C&D actually said anyone looking at a 335is coupe should just spend a little more for a M3 sedan.

My thoughts exactly. And there's still all the nice ///M suspension kit - that one can't see - and the high-rev V8 which is still more the classic.

[spicoli024]

I would still rather have my 333hp e46M ZCP over the 2011 335is. Ms are just more fun to drive, period. If you really have a problem, go test drive one before you start complaining to BMW for producing a solid factory car. It still does not match the e9xM.

[FStop7]

At least once a week someone starts a thread about how much they like their new M3, it usually goes like this: "Hey, i just traded in my 335i on an M3. I can't believe how incredible the M3 is! It's amazing, so much better!"

How many times week do people post "Hey, I just traded in my M3 on a 335i! It's so much better!"

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

The solution to that problem is to have an open top car for crusing along with a dedicated track car.

CA

Exactly what I was thinking. Better to abuse a dedicated track car. Some say every hard lap around Nurburgring is like a hundred+ miles wear and tear.

[muzeon]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

don't get me wrong, i love the 369lb instant torque and all, it's a great car.
but i dunno why people feel confused about 335is vs M3.
335is, with all that M package and body kit upgrades....is just another 3 series trying to be an M after all.

you'll sit in a 335 watching M3 drive by and always think you should've bought the M3 instead.
you'll sit in an M3 watching 335 drive by and never even think about getting 335 instead.

argument finished.

Agree 100%! Leased a 335i when it first came out, but just gotta have the M3... been wanting one since I first started driving BMWs... gotta have it! Sure 335s are pretty close to the M3, chipped etc... but can't beat the handling, intoxicating sound, and the tradition of M3.

Never looked back on it, and have always leased my BMWs, but this is my first purchased... no regrets... (did buy the extended maintenance and warranty, just in case)

[TLud]

Originally Posted by spicoli024

I would still rather have my 333hp e46M ZCP over the 2011 335is. Ms are just more fun to drive, period. If you really have a problem, go test drive one before you start complaining to BMW for producing a solid factory car. It still does not match the e9xM.

Drive one and then let us know how pissed you are. If you're still pissed, remind yourself to use the extra couple thousand rpms your tach hasn't seen in awhile.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

Exactly what I was thinking. Better to abuse a dedicated track car. Some say every hard lap around Nurburgring is like a hundred+ miles wear and tear.

IMO the M3 is (a lot) of fun to drive around a track and is a highly capable car but if you are serious about tracking (I am a member at Lime Rock) it is not necessarily the best choice as a track car.

I think the M3 is a great car and I understand why people desire them but it (like a lot of cars) is in a sort of "Twilight Zone", more performance than can be utilized on the street (not that there's anything wrong with that ) and not necessarily the best choice for a dedicated track car.

I personally am not interested in tracking a car that does not have a full roll cage, racing seats with a 5 point harness, a Hans device and a fire suspression system.

I am also totally anal about the way I keep my street cars and if you track a car it is going to get f*cked up and when it does I don't want it to be my $75,000 road car.

The guy in the picture below can attest to this and the next time someone tells him "don't lift in the uphill" he will probably listen.



I am perfectly happy with my 335i convertible as a road car, or "cruising" car. I love the convertible feature and frankly I would not trade it for an M3 sedan if it was an even trade, and yes I am fully aware that an M3 Sedan will outperform my 335i convertible (but I don't care). And you can be reasonably sure that many of the posters here who are so impressed with themselves because they can afford the payments on an M3 can not afford to destroy it at the track and not be able to put in an insurance claim.

CA

[MVF4Rrider]

^^ The E93 is the only E9X I'd own as it is the versatile one with a split personality and I don't get bent out of shape about the minimal difference in street performance between coupes and convertibles. I can drive any of them to a normal [for me] street performance threshold. The E93 is definitely the best looking of all. Pride is a factor. And when I want real performance, I have that sitting in the garage already.

[SlamMan]

Performance wise, the M3 is the hands down winner. It's is amazing how much they've made the 335is look like the M. Visually there isn't much different. Unless you own, or are interested in either car, it's tough to tell the difference.

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by SlamMan

Performance wise, the M3 is the hands down winner. It's is amazing how much they've made the 335is look like the M. Visually there isn't much different. Unless you own, or are interested in either car, it's tough to tell the difference.

It's always a personal choice when it comes to buying cars. I don't know what all the bickering going on, both these cars are made buy the same company BMW! Shouldn't we be arguing about Audi, or Mercedes?

My only complaint about my M3 since owning it; is poor fuel economy! But I new it's fuel economy was piss poor before i bought it.

Just my 2 cents!

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

It's always a personal choice when it comes to buying cars. I don't know what all the bickering going on, both these cars are made buy the same company BMW! Shouldn't we be arguing about Audi, or Mercedes?

My only complaint about my M3 since owning it; is poor fuel economy! But I new it's fuel economy was piss poor before i bought it.

Just my 2 cents!

We shouldn't be bickering about anything. True enthusiasts appreciate a wide variety of cars.

CA

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by montreal red

there'll always be newer cars that would make us feel a little 'shitty' and jealous... but think bout it... all those owners who buy the 335is would feel like crap when the BRAND NEW 3 series gets launched in 2012. their car would feel special for at most a year or a year and half after they get it...

on the other hand, there wont be another m3 until at least 2 years into the new F series 3er... so that means we wont see a new m3 until 2014 or so... doesnt make me feel that shitty if you ask me.

And this is why I bought the M3. They DO NOT change the front at all, and they only refresh the tail lights. We won't see the F30 M3 til 2014! So enjoy driving the latest M for another few more years

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

We shouldn't be bickering about anything. True enthusiasts appreciate a wide variety of cars.

CA

Perhaps the quote of the decade. Motoring is about passion where hair splitting has no true home. There are many modern "passenger" cars which would kill the venerable E30 M3 around a track, or even a M1. Time marches on. But that doesn't mean those generic passenger cars evoke any type of emotion or passion. Enjoy whatever floats your boat. I personally don't like the 335i or soon-to-be 335is but not because they are close competitors (subjective) to the M3, but because I can't stand the power delivery of the N54. That isn't to say I don't think they are good daily drivers which offer a top level of quality and capability because they do. They just miss out on that added bit of extra feel and capability in which M cars are engineered to deliver. Plus M cars instill that tad bit of extra passion from both a performance and aesthetic perspective.

[footie]

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

Perhaps the quote of the decade. Motoring is about passion where hair splitting has no true home. There are many modern "passenger" cars which would kill the venerable E30 M3 around a track, or even a M1. Time marches on. But that doesn't mean those generic passenger cars evoke any type of emotion or passion. Enjoy whatever floats your boat. I personally don't like the 335i or soon-to-be 335is but not because they are close competitors (subjective) to the M3, but because I can't stand the power delivery of the N54. That isn't to say I don't think they are good daily drivers which offer a top level of quality and capability because they do. They just miss out on that added bit of extra feel and capability in which M cars are engineered to deliver. Plus M cars instill that tad bit of extra passion from both a performance and aesthetic perspective.

Very well put.

Each individual has to make up their own mind as to whether they feel one car fulfils their requirements better than another.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by footie

Very well put.

Each individual has to make up their own mind as to whether they feel one car fulfils their requirements better than another.

I agree with both your posts and yes I do love my M3,but the 335 is the much better vehicle for my wife with its torque focused power delivery.

[adc]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

IMO the M3 is (a lot) of fun to drive around a track and is a highly capable car but if you are serious about tracking (I am a member at Lime Rock) it is not necessarily the best choice as a track car.

I would like to disagree here - it's a perfect choice for the track. What you are saying is that it would cost too much to prepare it for track and there are other less expensive alternatives that can provide similar thrills. And in that context, I agree.

But a well prepared M3, with stripped interior, rollcage, fire extinguisher, Hans device etc. would be a devastating track tool, both fast and safe.

I personally am not interested in tracking a car that does not have a full roll cage, racing seats with a 5 point harness, a Hans device and a fire suspression system.

Again, since no car comes such equipped from the factory (unless you want a 911 Cup car), you are talking about significant investment to transform a street car into a track car. So at this point, the only argument against using an M3 is the initial purchase cost - which doesn't mean at all that the M3 is any worse for track work than any number of other cars.

Safety wise, would you rather trust a Lotus or a Corvette? Which one would you rather crash in (rollcage included)?

I am also totally anal about the way I keep my street cars and if you track a car it is going to get f*cked up and when it does I don't want it to be my $75,000 road car.

I would like to offer a counterpoint here.

I've been tracking my street cars since 2001 in the appropriate events for street cars (driving schools) and never came even close to wrecking any one of them.

Why would you assume a crash will happen? Just because some people with more money than common sense or talent crash their expensive toys (as in your picture), doesn't necessarily mean it will happen to a level headed guy like myself - who always wants to go back home in the same car he came in.

Now you can argue that I am deluding myself, except that my, umm, track record speaks otherwise.


If I wanted to be competitive (as opposed to just having some fun), then I'd probably start racing in a spec class - to gain experience, since they are so fiercely contested. But simply for having fun, I don't see any drawback to taking an M3 to track days.

[H Bomb]

any vids or pics of these items you speak of??