Why NO BMW's at 2012 Le mans this year?

[ptack]

First they duck out of F1, then LeMans, then ALMS
don't worry though, I'm sure the marketing geniuses are figuring out new ways to stick M badges on anything that rolls.

[MrClean335i]

Well BMW does compete in the FIA GT1 World Championship, FIA GT3 European Series and in the SRO Endurance Championship with a Z4 GT3.




The Vita4One Z4 is actually winning the GT1 Championship




The truth is that the GT2 cars are outdated and presently the GT3 cars are faster, more reliable and more economical.

[Silver E90]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am very disappointment that BMW Motorsport didn't support Rahal in going to Le Mans. He had the invites, the competitive car and the drivers to compete for the win and he WANTED to go, but BMW couldn't "support" the effort. I followed BMW into F1 and watched Vettel in his first race at Indy, and have been a big follower of the ALMS program, and baffled by this.

Audi is running FOUR LMP1s at Le Mans AND is in DTM (Plus the R8 GT3)
Mercedes has a Formula 1 team AND is in the DTM (Plus the SLS GT3)

Is BMW's motorsport program really that small? To me that's kinda sad when they are supposed to be the sportier "Ultimate Driving Machine" of the three German brands.

I just think it makes them look bad. and for everything that RLL has done for the brand in North America they couldn't support them for the biggest race of the year?

Unreal.

On a side note I've tried to watch DTM and even with all the BMW Motorsport PR it is nowhere as good as GT racing. Period. It's F1 with fenders. But that's my opinion.

[Silver E90]

Originally Posted by MrClean335i

Well BMW does compete in the FIA GT1 World Championship, FIA GT3 European Series and in the SRO Endurance Championship with a Z4 GT3.




The Vita4One Z4 is actually winning the GT1 Championship




The truth is that the GT2 cars are outdated and presently the GT3 cars are faster, more reliable and more economical.

They could make a Z4M again with the current M3 V8 and use it in the ALMS and Le Mans, but I doubt they will do that.

[Kayani_1]

I just think they need to work with ALMS to keep there success going there. They should have sent there M3 GT-R cars that are in the hunt for championship out to the 24 hours legendary Le mans race.

I think BMW racing is dropping the ball by putting all there effort into DTM and ignoring all the rest.

[Andrew_K_AZ]

Originally Posted by Silver E90

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am very disappointment that BMW Motorsport didn't support Rahal in going to Le Mans. He had the invites, the competitive car and the drivers to compete for the win and he WANTED to go, but BMW couldn't "support" the effort. I followed BMW into F1 and watched Vettel in his first race at Indy, and have been a big follower of the ALMS program, and baffled by this.

Audi is running FOUR LMP1s at Le Mans AND is in DTM (Plus the R8 GT3)
Mercedes has a Formula 1 team AND is in the DTM (Plus the SLS GT3)

Is BMW's motorsport program really that small? To me that's kinda sad when they are supposed to be the sportier "Ultimate Driving Machine" of the three German brands.

I just think it makes them look bad. and for everything that RLL has done for the brand in North America they couldn't support them for the biggest race of the year?

Unreal.

On a side note I've tried to watch DTM and even with all the BMW Motorsport PR it is nowhere as good as GT racing. Period. It's F1 with fenders. But that's my opinion.

I agree completely...

I think participating (and winning) in Motorsports competitions that have big public followings in major global markets is essential investment for leading automakers.... especially those automakers who want gain market share in performance cars.

Besides the examples of Audi and Mercedes, GM is in Le Mans/ALMS, NASCAR, Indycar. VW Group that owns Audi and Porsche seems is in just about everything except F1. Also, now Toyota is in Le Mans and NASCAR. Fiat/Chrysler in LeMans, F1. Renault/Nissan is in Le Mans/ALMS and F1. etc.

Personally, I think BMW got cold feet after their failed investment in F1/Sauber in the 2000's, inability to sustain their success with Le Mans Prototypes beyond the win in 1999, and failing to beat the Corvettes on their return to Le Mans in 2011. Maybe they want to come in with a surefire World Beater before they get back into these high profile competitions again....maybe they have plans for a prototype the likes of the 1999 V12 LMR to highlight their Efficient Dynamics investment or a superior "M" GT car the likes of the 1995 McLaren F1 GTR with the BMW V12 that won Le Mans overall (the last GT Road car to win Le Mans overall)

[nradbmw]

I am extremely disappointed. I'll say this, I buy cars based on endurance racing success, not spec series. I've had Corvettes and M3s. I might be shifting back toward corvette again. If BMW continues destroying their racing image, I'll jump. They've already watered M down so bad it's insane.

[ClydeC.]

They pulled out because the new start-stop feature kept malfunctioning during all the pit stops.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by Andrew_K_AZ

"M" GT car the likes of the 1995 McLaren F1 GTR with the BMW V12 that won Le Mans overall (the last GT Road car to win Le Mans overall)

Not so the Porsche 911 GT1 was the last GT road based vehicle to win LeMans in 1998. Porsche built 25 of them, I've even seen one on the road in Auckland a few years ago, it looked like it was coping nicely in the morning rush hour.

[Andrew_K_AZ]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

Not so the Porsche 911 GT1 was the last GT road based vehicle to win LeMans in 1998. Porsche built 25 of them, I've even seen one on the road in Auckland a few years ago, it looked like it was coping nicely in the morning rush hour.
[/img]

You are right. I stand corrected. Another great car and the last win for Porsche. I expect more competition with the drastic changes to rules starting 2014.... perhaps we will see Porsche and BMW get back into it.... although its unlikely that VW Group will compete within.

[OC ///M]

Originally Posted by Silver E90

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am very disappointment that BMW Motorsport didn't support Rahal in going to Le Mans. He had the invites, the competitive car and the drivers to compete for the win and he WANTED to go, but BMW couldn't "support" the effort. I followed BMW into F1 and watched Vettel in his first race at Indy, and have been a big follower of the ALMS program, and baffled by this.

Audi is running FOUR LMP1s at Le Mans AND is in DTM (Plus the R8 GT3)
Mercedes has a Formula 1 team AND is in the DTM (Plus the SLS GT3)

Is BMW's motorsport program really that small? To me that's kinda sad when they are supposed to be the sportier "Ultimate Driving Machine" of the three German brands.

I just think it makes them look bad. and for everything that RLL has done for the brand in North America they couldn't support them for the biggest race of the year?

Unreal!

On a side note I've tried to watch DTM and even with all the BMW Motorsport PR it is nowhere as good as GT racing. Period. It's F1 with fenders. But that's my opinion.

^ +1,000,000...

Thank you, I agree whole-heartedly with everything you stated above.

...You here me in the back BMW?!!

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

I just think they need to work with ALMS to keep there success going there. They should have sent there M3 GT-R cars that are in the hunt for championship out to the 24 hours legendary Le mans race.

I think BMW racing is dropping the ball by putting all there effort into DTM and ignoring all the rest.

The worst part is that they aren't even that competitive in DTM.

Seriously sad when a coompany flaunts its racing heritage and then no longer races

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

The worst part is that they aren't even that competitive in DTM.

DTM is a steep learning curve for them, Mercedes and Audi have been there for a long time.

[nradbmw]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

The worst part is that they aren't even that competitive in DTM.

Seriously sad when a coompany flaunts its racing heritage and then no longer races

[BrokenVert]

I just had a thought about le mans for BMW.

It's not without precedent that thei le mans car would have a different engine than their road car. The M3 GTR was V8 powered with only a couple of road going versions produced

[Kayani_1]

M3 GT-R has raced in Le mans last year. The regular M3 is V8. There are no issues with running that car there as BMW could have easily done so if they wanted to.

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I just had a thought about le mans for BMW.

It's not without precedent that thei le mans car would have a different engine than their road car. The M3 GTR was V8 powered with only a couple of road going versions produced

[MrClean335i]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

M3 GT-R has raced in Le mans last year. The regular M3 is V8. There are no issues with running that car there as BMW could have easily done so if they wanted to.

He was talking about the e46 M3

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by MrClean335i

He was talking about the e46 M3

Indeed I was

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I just had a thought about le mans for BMW.

It's not without precedent that thei le mans car would have a different engine than their road car. The M3 GTR was V8 powered with only a couple of road going versions produced

Homologation rules are now different from the days of the e46. The manufacturer must have 1,000 production units of the engine and 100 production units of the car.

[m5_dude]

Originally Posted by Silver E90

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am very disappointment that BMW Motorsport didn't support Rahal in going to Le Mans. He had the invites, the competitive car and the drivers to compete for the win and he WANTED to go, but BMW couldn't "support" the effort. I followed BMW into F1 and watched Vettel in his first race at Indy, and have been a big follower of the ALMS program, and baffled by this.

Audi is running FOUR LMP1s at Le Mans AND is in DTM (Plus the R8 GT3)
Mercedes has a Formula 1 team AND is in the DTM (Plus the SLS GT3)

Is BMW's motorsport program really that small? To me that's kinda sad when they are supposed to be the sportier "Ultimate Driving Machine" of the three German brands.

I just think it makes them look bad. and for everything that RLL has done for the brand in North America they couldn't support them for the biggest race of the year?

Unreal.

On a side note I've tried to watch DTM and even with all the BMW Motorsport PR it is nowhere as good as GT racing. Period. It's F1 with fenders. But that's my opinion.

THIS! Look if they can find a way to be ultra competitive in the Rolex series I might forgive them but the 24 Heures of Le Mans is the ultimate sports car racing stage and the ALMS is in my opinion a lot more exciting. I just feel like they owe a better explanation to people who regard this brand as one that was born on the track.

[Silver E90]

Originally Posted by m5_dude

THIS! Look if they can find a way to be ultra competitive in the Rolex series I might forgive them but the 24 Heures of Le Mans is the ultimate sports car racing stage and the ALMS is in my opinion a lot more exciting. I just feel like they owe a better explanation to people who regard this brand as one that was born on the track.

I agree, I think that it is ridiculous that they never came out and issued a press release explaining the decision to not participate in Le Mans. I hope that Jens Marquardt is at Mid-Ohio for the ALMS race, because I'd love to ask him why they couldn't support Rahal. But I'm sure that he will be to best with DTM to be there. I think the thing that burns me the most is that this was the last year for the M3 GT to compete and they couldn't let it have a chance to go out on top.


Does anybody have a email address or number for BMW Motorsport that you can contact? I find it interesting that you can't even contact them and they are not very interactive with their fans. That may be why there is very little talk and support on here for the motorsport programs.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Silver E90

I agree, I think that it is ridiculous that they never came out and issued a press release explaining the decision to not participate in Le Mans. I hope that Jens Marquardt is at Mid-Ohio for the ALMS race, because I'd love to ask him why they couldn't support Rahal. But I'm sure that he will be to best with DTM to be there. I think the thing that burns me the most is that this was the last year for the M3 GT to compete and they couldn't let it have a chance to go out on top.


Does anybody have a email address or number for BMW Motorsport that you can contact? I find it interesting that you can't even contact them and they are not very interactive with their fans. That may be why there is very little talk and support on here for the motorsport programs.

First, Rahal never competed in Le Mans even with Dr. T at the helm so why is it Jens issue? The ILMC is an entire different race series that happens to have some ALMS races and the 24hr LM race included- the reason for not entering besides the cost is that they had a very successful year last year and still could not win bc they are only two cars competing with fleets of Porsches and Ferraris- not an even balance and little chance of success. They didn't need a press release because they never said they were racing it, last year they announced they would compete for 2011.

It is very cost prohibitive to ship people and equipment overseas to race at Le Mans- competing in Le Mans (just the entry fees and "greasing") costs more than the entire ALMS season without even getting into shipping stuff.

The ALMS program is financed by BMWNA not BMW AG- the entire M3 GT2/GT program started as a "customer car" program with BMWNA as the BMW Motorsport customer- no different than Schubertt. BMW is getting out of the "works" team business and developing customer products- this is what Ferrari does and Porsche does for the most part- sure they have works drivers and supply engineers but they are not operating the day to day- (RLL does this in the US).

BMW AG stopped racing the M3 LAST year because even with the success the car had, it had run its course as "GT" cars are dated, cost prohibitive and slower (in many cases) than GT3 cars. They performed an "update" to the Z4 GT3 (invested significant resources), built a DTM program from the ground up (6 cars at over 2.5 million each in development- new haulers and equipment for the 6 teams) and are continuing to build customer cars. Is it a posturing statement to the ACO that BMW is not racing in GTE- sure, but they are making their point as are the other brands- MB wants the SLS in, Audi the R8, Astin etc.

BMW does not have the money of VAG nor the engine contract in F1 like Mercedes (they only one 60% of the team and that is financed in part by engine sales). Audi and MB are also already invested in DTM- actually they are not saving money than in the past.

BMW AG also decreased it's investment in racing after F1 by investing in the future- they have almost $200 million invested in joint ventures- one of which is in carbon fiber and is the one other brands now are trying to catch up to and will shape the next generation cars significantly.

People tend to think racing brings innovation- it does in some areas like P1, but in GT racing no innovation is gained, the street car contributes more to the race car than vice versa.

Manufacturers in F1 are saying that now and are working on ways to curb spending because costs are too high and winning is solely on trickery and spending money, P1 is similar.

If Bernie is convicted of anything, Mercedes will be pulling out of F1 in all capacity as there is a statute in their organization that they cannot and will not have any dealings with criminals or organizations that are corrupt (statute was written post WWII)- it is also a clause in all the contracts they have parties sign. Up until recently Audi did not even race in the US, and MB still doesn't.


If BMW takes a break from ALMS it would not be the first time... there is always the Jag or Grand Am/ Continental/ Rolex (whatever it is called).