Selling E92... Going Back To E46 Or E36 W/ S54 Swap.. What To Do???

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Lol, I think that's backwards. I mod it because I'm never going to sell it. Modding a car you're going to sell is a ton of money (and frustration) down the drain :P

.... which is why my daily/beater M5 is pretty stock. At some point it's going to be replaced with either an e90 M3 or a DIY e46 M3 sedan.

True I can't afford to sell mine either. Past point of no return long ago.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Lol, I think that's backwards. I mod it because I'm never going to sell it. Modding a car you're going to sell is a ton of money (and frustration) down the drain :P

.... which is why my daily/beater M5 is pretty stock. At some point it's going to be replaced with either an e90 M3 or a DIY e46 M3 sedan.

It's a good philosophy. Keep the DD very stock to not lose it all on resale

[PrimeBMW]

I am going to state the obvious. Stock for stock and mod for mod we know that the newer car is going to be faster. An older car like an e36 is going to have to be significantly modified to keep up. More race parts equals longer build time and more headaches…………engine swap is another level of headache (ask me how I know). I see diy e30 and e36 break down at the track all the time. E46 and e92 M3’s are very reliable. I would say stick with which ever you currently own because you are losing money selling off parts. I would do the following if in your shoes: Keep the E92 M3, BBK, MCS singles and pay for a private driving coach. Once you are ready bump up to a sticky tire, add aero, strip and half cage. Done and very fast package.

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Keep the E92 M3, BBK, MCS singles and pay for a private driving coach. Once you are ready bump up to a sticky tire, add aero, strip and half cage. Done and very fast package.

This is exactly what I'm in the process of doing. Great advice!

[RickyBobby]

Food for thought. Why does the e36 have to have a motor swap? My bone stock e36 is plenty fun. I'm not arguing 'more power' but a motor swap is a big investment for just a track car. Also consider that if you want to enter any race classes, a motor swapped e36 will face some pretty stiff competition. You can build a fully prepped e36 track car for under 10k.

[nicksm3]

Well said on everyone's part as for advise on Sebrings decision but he stated he doesn't feel comfortable enough tracking a car worth in the high $40's and covering insurance aswell.
I was in the same boat last year with my e92 and was searching for e46's but I'm biting the bullet and staying in for the Long haul with this platform. I love it and believe in it. Team Schirmer over the pond have been great in helping me create the ultimate GT racer with the e92 platform. Knowledgable guys and really know their shit! They have one of the finest setup e92's to date. Check em out if you haven't done so.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

Well said on everyone's part as for advise on Sebrings decision but he stated he doesn't feel comfortable enough tracking a car worth in the high $40's and covering insurance aswell.
I was in the same boat last year with my e92 and was searching for e46's but I'm biting the bullet and staying in for the Long haul with this platform. I love it and believe in it. Team Schirmer over the pond have been great in helping me create the ultimate GT racer with the e92 platform. Knowledgable guys and really know their shit! They have one of the finest setup e92's to date. Check em out if you haven't done so.

[Mthrice]

My mechanic has an e36M3 with a s54 swap. Ran 1:52 at buttonwillow pre repave, and has a couple NASA trophies in his office. LMK if your interested.

Good Luck

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by Mthrice

My mechanic has an e36M3 with a s54 swap. Ran 1:52 at buttonwillow pre repave, and has a couple NASA trophies in his office. LMK if your interested.

Good Luck

would love to know your thoughts in detail!!!!!!

[CSL_E36]

Hey dudes. That was me and my e36 at Sonoma.








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A little history on the build. She is pretty much a no expense spared build. The e36 has always been my favorite M3, its the car I dreamed of in high school and its really the car that got me into cars. No other car gets me as excited as when I see my e36, still. When I had the oppurtunity, I decided I wanted a "greatest hits M3 build" that not only highlights the things I feel define a M car, but something that would be timeless as well, "a wolf in sheeps clothing". The s54 matched with a CF airbox, race headers, and a 3.5in full exhaust makes a unique and intoxicating sound no other motor in the world makes. Its a screamer with deep roars. Other mods include a Bimmerworld 5-speed race trans, MCS 2-way suspension, Stoptech BBK 4pot all around with 355mm fronts, Z4 Mcoupe steering rack, custom welded back-half cage, Felony Form over fenders and lightweight Volks with huge rubber 275F 285R. Car has full interior with race seats, sunroof cassette delete, rear seat delete and retains AC. Even with the weight saving measures, the cage, big wheels, tires and aero bring the weight to just over 3200lbs with a full tank of fuel and no driver. end rant.




Back on topic, I agree with alot of whats being said in this thread. Is the e92 a better platform then the e46 or e36? YES. Obviously due to chassis improvements, however its a much more expensive proposition. Do I feel the e92 is a porker? HELL YES. I feel like I'm stepping into a 5 series when i go from my e36 to the e92.

There is no hiding weight. It ruins good cars. A e92 with proper suspension (mines on springs) and a stripped interior would be a force to be dealt with on track. But like others have said, its expensive and people wont be likely to do full race builds for weekend track toys until prices fall further.

Personally, I am considering doing another build, e36 or e46 that will be maxed at $10k and be purely built for safety, lightweight, and the ability to push my limits as a driver. If I want to try braking later or apexing faster and I go sliding off into the wall, it wont break me physically, financially or mentally by destroying a unique one of a kind build. I think its the only way to become a better driver, let fear go. Once you know you are safe and you can deal the financial blow if you wreck, personally I dont see anything else holding me back from trying to go faster. Once you have that skill and experience, and can literally jump in any car and slide it around like Mr. Harris, then hell, drive your unique build or GT3 at 10/10ths and have fun!


I agree with OP. Stepping into something less expensive will absolutely make you a better driver. But dont expect to be faster then the e92 with a minimal e36 or e46 build. My e36 hangs with modern cars because of the depth of mods. All areas have been addressed and modified and it was bloody expensive.
On the opposite end of that spectrum, the car you drive makes no difference, its ALL about the driver. With the s54 but before the wide body and new exhaust my avg times at T-hill with bypass were in the 2:08s with a best halo lap of 2:06.8. That same day the P-Tech crew had a couple pro drivers taking turns in their shop e36, which had nothing more then AST suspension, worn out Yoko A048s, bucket seats, exhaust and a 200k mile s52. They were lapping around 2:02 flat. Hope that puts things in perspective.











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Cheers

Shafique

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by 96LTWM3

Hey dudes. That was me and my e36 at Sonoma.








[IMG][/IMG]


Shafique

Looks amazing!

[M3 Number 86]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1099190

This guy seems to not care about car price. Yikes.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by 96LTWM3

Hey dudes. That was me and my e36 at Sonoma.








[IMG][/IMG]








A little history on the build. She is pretty much a no expense spared build. The e36 has always been my favorite M3, its the car I dreamed of in high school and its really the car that got me into cars. No other car gets me as excited as when I see my e36, still. When I had the oppurtunity, I decided I wanted a "greatest hits M3 build" that not only highlights the things I feel define a M car, but something that would be timeless as well, "a wolf in sheeps clothing". The s54 matched with a CF airbox, race headers, and a 3.5in full exhaust makes a unique and intoxicating sound no other motor in the world makes. Its a screamer with deep roars. Other mods include a Bimmerworld 5-speed race trans, MCS 2-way suspension, Stoptech BBK 4pot all around with 355mm fronts, Z4 Mcoupe steering rack, custom welded back-half cage, Felony Form over fenders and lightweight Volks with huge rubber 275F 285R. Car has full interior with race seats, sunroof cassette delete, rear seat delete and retains AC. Even with the weight saving measures, the cage, big wheels, tires and aero bring the weight to just over 3200lbs with a full tank of fuel and no driver. end rant.




Back on topic, I agree with alot of whats being said in this thread. Is the e92 a better platform then the e46 or e36? YES. Obviously due to chassis improvements, however its a much more expensive proposition. Do I feel the e92 is a porker? HELL YES. I feel like I'm stepping into a 5 series when i go from my e36 to the e92.

There is no hiding weight. It ruins good cars. A e92 with proper suspension (mines on springs) and a stripped interior would be a force to be dealt with on track. But like others have said, its expensive and people wont be likely to do full race builds for weekend track toys until prices fall further.

Personally, I am considering doing another build, e36 or e46 that will be maxed at $10k and be purely built for safety, lightweight, and the ability to push my limits as a driver. If I want to try braking later or apexing faster and I go sliding off into the wall, it wont break me physically, financially or mentally by destroying a unique one of a kind build. I think its the only way to become a better driver, let fear go. Once you know you are safe and you can deal the financial blow if you wreck, personally I dont see anything else holding me back from trying to go faster. Once you have that skill and experience, and can literally jump in any car and slide it around like Mr. Harris, then hell, drive your unique build or GT3 at 10/10ths and have fun!


I agree with OP. Stepping into something less expensive will absolutely make you a better driver. But dont expect to be faster then the e92 with a minimal e36 or e46 build. My e36 hangs with modern cars because of the depth of mods. All areas have been addressed and modified and it was bloody expensive.
On the opposite end of that spectrum, the car you drive makes no difference, its ALL about the driver. With the s54 but before the wide body and new exhaust my avg times at T-hill with bypass were in the 2:08s with a best halo lap of 2:06.8. That same day the P-Tech crew had a couple pro drivers taking turns in their shop e36, which had nothing more then AST suspension, worn out Yoko A048s, bucket seats, exhaust and a 200k mile s52. They were lapping around 2:02 flat. Hope that puts things in perspective.











[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]


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Cheers

Shafique

yes sir you were the individual i was referring to! your a hell of a driver so it was hard to compare your car to my e92 has your skill level is higher then mine.... with that said how does your s54 e36 compare to a e92 as it sits now... i know the amount that was put into your sled... i have been back and fourth with p-tech about what they charge for the conversion... but i have come to the conclusion if you come into this sport looking to do it cheap its probably the wrong hobby for you.. how does the car pull compared to the e92? what times do you run at laguna.. that time is important to me as that track is a power track... thank you for all your time

[1MOREMOD]

That's heavy for a e36 isn't it? Is it stripped? Was thinking this was a 2500 lb car when Sebring was telling me about it.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

That's heavy for a e36 isn't it? Is it stripped? Was thinking this was a 2500 lb car when Sebring was telling me about it.

ya i thought the guy from p-tech said it was alot lighter

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

That's heavy for a e36 isn't it? Is it stripped? Was thinking this was a 2500 lb car when Sebring was telling me about it.

i do woner what his car would look like in DAKAR YELLOW though

[CSL_E36]

Originally Posted by Sebringjetta

yes sir you were the individual i was referring to! your a hell of a driver so it was hard to compare your car to my e92 has your skill level is higher then mine.... with that said how does your s54 e36 compare to a e92 as it sits now... i know the amount that was put into your sled... i have been back and fourth with p-tech about what they charge for the conversion... but i have come to the conclusion if you come into this sport looking to do it cheap its probably the wrong hobby for you.. how does the car pull compared to the e92? what times do you run at laguna.. that time is important to me as that track is a power track... thank you for all your time

Thanks for the kind words! I would say my e36 has a very similar power to weight of a FBO e92. Im up to 334whp and 269wtq with only a 3.38 final drive, but its been a matter of two steps forward one step back. The added unsprung weight of a bbk, heavier wheels and tires, plus the added rolling resistance of that extra rubber will offset power gains. It may be slightly faster then a comparable e92 on the straight.

I have been in situations where I have been able to keep up with a FBO e92 with full suspension, lightweight wheels, cage, CAE shifter, weight reduction, and eventually pass them. However a few weeks before Sonoma I was at T-hill and had a tough time keeping up with RadiantM3 who has a similarly prepped e92 except his is full interior. Mark is a great driver and was hauling ass out of the corners way harder then me and that would show when i couldnt catch up on the straights. With something like a 3.64 or 3.91 final drive the car would zing a bit harder.

Yes over 3200lbs. I was a bit dissapointed by this as well after all the work, but i wanted to keep the car streetable and civil, and that means FULL interior. Everything works in my car as it should, plus its even got the BMW Traffic Pro which is a oem navi unit from the euro models. Yes they had navi back then No matter tho as this car feels like a flea compared to any modern BMW Alot of weight was removed, but alot was added back.

I have only been to Laguna once. It was raining. I was on worn Khumo (Crappo) XS. I spun a 180 in front of the corkscrew trying to get into 2nd gear. Blew sound at 94.9db on a 92db day shifting at 7000 with my old quiter exhaust Left early with my tail between my legs

I do want to mention how much I adore the S65. The way it delivers its power, the responsiveness, and oh, the noise. I think it makes some wonderful sounds at all rpms, where as I really only love the sound my s54 makes at full tilt wot. I just never fell in love with the total package of the e92. I cant justfiy spending the money to mod a modern car that really is only marginally better then its 20 yr old brother.

I have been saying for months now that Im going to sell my e92, however everytime i sit to make my auto trader ad, i find something else "more important" to do...the e92 is a special car.

[AP3X_FTW]

I know this dilemma all too well. My M3 ownership in recent years:

E46 M3 #1
E46 M3 #2
E90 M3
E36 M3
E46 M3 #3
E92 M3 * current

The problem is that you are looking at things from a short term perspective, a habit I too cannot break. Keep the e92 M3, continue to mod it with high quality parts when necessary(especially those the cut weight), and continue to improve as a driver. In a few years from now, you will have a car that is religiously maintained from someone you trust (yourself!!), and a platform that is faster then earlier generations. The S65 is fantastic motor, and is definitely my favorite from the three.

With that said, if money were no object, I would absolutely have a E46 M3 with an s65 swapped into it.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by 96LTWM3

Thanks for the kind words! I would say my e36 has a very similar power to weight of a FBO e92. Im up to 334whp and 269wtq with only a 3.38 final drive, but its been a matter of two steps forward one step back. The added unsprung weight of a bbk, heavier wheels and tires, plus the added rolling resistance of that extra rubber will offset power gains. It may be slightly faster then a comparable e92 on the straight.

I have been in situations where I have been able to keep up with a FBO e92 with full suspension, lightweight wheels, cage, CAE shifter, weight reduction, and eventually pass them. However a few weeks before Sonoma I was at T-hill and had a tough time keeping up with RadiantM3 who has a similarly prepped e92 except his is full interior. Mark is a great driver and was hauling ass out of the corners way harder then me and that would show when i couldnt catch up on the straights. With something like a 3.64 or 3.91 final drive the car would zing a bit harder.

Yes over 3200lbs. I was a bit dissapointed by this as well after all the work, but i wanted to keep the car streetable and civil, and that means FULL interior. Everything works in my car as it should, plus its even got the BMW Traffic Pro which is a oem navi unit from the euro models. Yes they had navi back then No matter tho as this car feels like a flea compared to any modern BMW Alot of weight was removed, but alot was added back.

I have only been to Laguna once. It was raining. I was on worn Khumo (Crappo) XS. I spun a 180 in front of the corkscrew trying to get into 2nd gear. Blew sound at 94.9db on a 92db day shifting at 7000 with my old quiter exhaust Left early with my tail between my legs

I do want to mention how much I adore the S65. The way it delivers its power, the responsiveness, and oh, the noise. I think it makes some wonderful sounds at all rpms, where as I really only love the sound my s54 makes at full tilt wot. I just never fell in love with the total package of the e92. I cant justfiy spending the money to mod a modern car that really is only marginally better then its 20 yr old brother.

I have been saying for months now that Im going to sell my e92, however everytime i sit to make my auto trader ad, i find something else "more important" to do...the e92 is a special car.

thank you for taking the time to put all this down! MARK is an amazing driver as well and always loved his car.. i know for sure i will be leaving the e92.. just torn between the e46 and e36... i have owned 3 e36 and 1 e46.. i loved both cars.. when a e36 is done right i think they look amazing but always lacked power hence the reason i would swap in the s54 right away... makes you wonder if the s65 would fit in the e36 but i also love the lines of the e46 as it almost seems timeless... also the ABS system is amazing.... also takes wider meat with no modification

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by AP3X_FTW

I know this dilemma all too well. My M3 ownership in recent years:

E46 M3 #1
E46 M3 #2
E90 M3
E36 M3
E46 M3 #3
E92 M3 * current

The problem is that you are looking at things from a short term perspective, a habit I too cannot break. Keep the e92 M3, continue to mod it with high quality parts when necessary(especially those the cut weight), and continue to improve as a driver. In a few years from now, you will have a car that is religiously maintained from someone you trust (yourself!!), and a platform that is faster then earlier generations. The S65 is fantastic motor, and is definitely my favorite from the three.

With that said, if money were no object, I would absolutely have a E46 M3 with an s65 swapped into it.

e92 is an amazing car but the 2 things that drive me crazy as said ealier is they feel BIG! 2nd im not willing to chance wrecking a 40-50k car... i have already put 1 car into a wall several years ago and cant imagine wrecking the e92

[AP3X_FTW]

Originally Posted by Sebringjetta

e92 is an amazing car but the 2 things that drive me crazy as said ealier is they feel BIG! 2nd im not willing to chance wrecking a 40-50k car... i have already put 1 car into a wall several years ago and cant imagine wrecking the e92

I hear you. I struggle with the later point quite a bit. I stay away from tracks like Laguna and Sonoma for that very reason. I know those two can be a lot of fun, so I will get track insurance when I decide to tackle them. Buttonwillow, Chuckwalla and Thunderhill are less threatening, so I will stick to those. (Yes, I know it can happen at any track, even if there is less/no walls)

I think the e46 M3 is the right car for you given your scenario. If I hit a point where I am able to go to the track more then 10 -12 times a year, I will likely do the same despite my love for the s65. Afterall, I have had 3 e46 M3's for a reason

BTW, if you go back to the e46, do not go FI. You do not want to spend more time in the paddock then in the drivers seat.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by AP3X_FTW

I know this dilemma all too well. My M3 ownership in recent years:

E46 M3 #1
E46 M3 #2
E90 M3
E36 M3
E46 M3 #3
E92 M3 * current

The problem is that you are looking at things from a short term perspective, a habit I too cannot break. Keep the e92 M3, continue to mod it with high quality parts when necessary(especially those the cut weight), and continue to improve as a driver. In a few years from now, you will have a car that is religiously maintained from someone you trust (yourself!!), and a platform that is faster then earlier generations. The S65 is fantastic motor, and is definitely my favorite from the three.

With that said, if money were no object, I would absolutely have a E46 M3 with an s65 swapped into it.

I came to this same conclusion and after fretting about tracking my pristine MCB 2013 E92 instead of my E46, I will just bite the bullet and track the E92.

Ordered the PFC bbk so there's no going back! Next year I'll get the MCS 2 way and continue working on the driver mod!

I'll get full season insurance and that's it, although I would not be able to replace my E92 if I total it