E9X M3 test pipes?

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

How many mods on an e90 m3 will get you 20hp for 400 bucks?

Only test pipes that I'm aware of. What's your point? Are you saying that makes it ok for manufactures to charge what ever they want?

[tjsabec]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

How many mods on an e90 m3 will get you 20hp for 400 bucks?

You can't get rid of the CEL for that price, so nothing?

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by tjsabec

You can't get rid of the CEL for that price, so nothing?

Well, technically is still does add about 20whp. Still its not about the price to me.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by e46m3to135i

Well, technically is still does add about 20whp. Still its not about the price to me.

TMS claims 40whp.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Billj747

TMS claims 40whp.

That seems a little optimistic IMO

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by Billj747

TMS claims 40whp.

Those numbers are acheived when coupled with a tune. Without a tune nets 20-30whp. Still optimistic IMHO. test pipe and tune numbers are usually a 25-35whp gain

-Nick

[M3ANMACHINE]

I just installed TMS pipes on my car as they were the lowest price. There isn't much variation in something as small as a test pipe, so I just went with the best value.

My other option was Macht Schnell, but I didn't see the extra $100 to be worth it...

[Ronnydashore]

Originally Posted by e46m3to135i

Yeah I dont have a MBA. Sorry. My job/duty position doesn't really ford me the opportunity to attain one when most of ones career is in Iraq or Afganistan.

Guessing if you don't have a degree these days, then you should just roll over and let people take your money??? Great therory.

I really don't think anyone needs a degree to figure out test pipes are stupidly overpriced along with everything else exhaust related to our M3's. Take a look at these REALLY cheaply made N54 DP's:

http://www.burgertuning.com/BMS_135_335_downpipes.html

BTW, there has NEVER been a report of them not fitting correctly or failing and they have been installed on N54's for close to 2 years now if I'm not mistaken. They fit like a glove on my previous N54. You tell me which part required more R&D, E9X test pipes or N54 DP's. Its pretty obvious.

Here's set for a 350Z made by Berk Technology. Oh yeah they make really crappy products too(sarcasm):

http://www.nissanraceshop.com/produc...FbFxQgod4EwAjQ

I took my car to a indy shop yesterday that does custom exhaust work and they quoted me $175 for the set installed. They also said, anything over $200 would be robbery considering what the materials and labor costs. At $175, he said they are still making a good profit. The shop also mentioned any decent exhaust shop could make these as the bend angles are not extreme, just be sure to request good material(304 stainless).

Before I traded my 335i for my M3 I was well aware of the M3 tax. Im sure it sounds like this thread is about that but its not. It's about the degree of it. In my opinion, should there be an increase based off of supply/demand, yes. Theres a difference bewtween S/D and taking advantage of people.

In the end, will I go with a brand name test pipe set or a set from the indy shop? I'm undecided as I like to support local vendors.

I started this thread to get an explanation of why E9X test pipes were considerably higher than other platforms. When I got the answers, I really wasn't that impressed.

-Nick

A degree could help you with critical thinking and reading. You can produce parts for a market as huge as 350z or 335 cars because you will sell 1000 times more than you will for a tiny m3 crowd in comparison. Therefore spending time doing R and D into a product and making it means to recoup costs and make a profit only selling a relatively small number, the price needs to be quite a lot higher than any similar product for the 335 whether material is the same or not.

Definetly shows you have no schooling.

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by Ronnydashore

A degree could help you with critical thinking and reading. You can produce parts for a market as huge as 350z or 335 cars because you will sell 1000 times more than you will for a tiny m3 crowd in comparison. Therefore spending time doing R and D into a product and making it means to recoup costs and make a profit only selling a relatively small number, the price needs to be quite a lot higher than any similar product for the 335 whether material is the same or not.

Definetly shows you have no schooling.

Your a retard if you think the M3 aftermarket is tiny comapred to the N54/55 aftermarket.

[W///]

Originally Posted by e46m3to135i

Your a retard if you think the M3 aftermarket is tiny comapred to the N54/55 aftermarket.

Kinda ridiculous to call someone a retard when that sentence has grammar mistakes and typos.

Regardless, the S65 market is much smaller than the N54/55. There's no question about it. What makes you think otherwise?

Does it make it right for them to charge that much? That's a completely different story. You seem to have already made up your mind though. If you keep modding, your M, you will find out real quick the TP's are about the only bang for the buck item for this car.

Good luck with your car.

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by W///

Kinda ridiculous to call someone a retard when that sentence has grammar mistakes and typos.

Regardless, the S65 market is much smaller than the N54/55. There's no question about it. What makes you think otherwise?

Does it make it right for them to charge that much? That's a completely different story. You seem to have already made up your mind though. If you keep modding, your M, you will find out real quick the TP's are about the only bang for the buck item for this car. Its also important to note that I kept all replies and opinions civil without the need to make personal comments such someone being is a "salaried" employee or has a obvious lack of schooling.

Good luck with your car.

Just to be clear on a couple things.

- I NEVER said the S65 aftermarket was bigger or the same size as the N54/5 market.

- Calling someone a retard these days doesn't necessarily mean they are actually retarded. To me it's more of a generalized statement that one thinks of another in todays society. Honestly, I think name calling is immature and I'm not proud that I said that.

- Is this a grammar forum or a auto enthusiast forum ? Guess I should spend more time proof reading my posts before I post them.

The red highlighted quote from your post was the original reason for me creating this thread.

-Nick

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by e46m3to135i

Those numbers are acheived when coupled with a tune. Without a tune nets 20-30whp. Still optimistic IMHO. test pipe and tune numbers are usually a 25-35whp gain

-Nick

Are there any A-B dyno charts/threads out there to confirm?

FWIW, TMS has been spot on with their stage 1-3 packages for an e36 MP3.

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Are there any A-B dyno charts/threads out there to confirm?

FWIW, TMS has been spot on with their stage 1-3 packages for an e36 MP3.

Here's the link that shows Turner's TP and tune dynos showing the 40hp gain:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-19...or-e9x-m3.aspx

Only down side with the tuner tune is you have to mail in your DME to them to get flashed.

I would much rather have the freedom to flash back to stock at a moments notice if I needed to like the other vendors offer.

I went with Evolve for my tune, as I will ordering their blower kit next summer/fall. The cable/software kit should arrive tomorrow.

[Ronnydashore]

The m3 market is VERY TINY compared to the n54/n55 market. First the number of cars with an n54 or n55 is huge, the number of cars sold and the number of people who tune their cars in their 3 or 1 series is ridiculous. Compare to a single engine only in the m3, a price point that is 70k dollars and the bulk of people are older and do not mod compared to younger n54 crowd.

So yes it is tiny tiny. You see the boards so all you see is enthusiasts.

[EvenSteven]

It would be interesting to see actual numbers on that.

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by Ronnydashore

The m3 market is VERY TINY compared to the n54/n55 market. First the number of cars with an n54 or n55 is huge, the number of cars sold and the number of people who tune their cars in their 3 or 1 series is ridiculous. Compare to a single engine only in the m3, a price point that is 70k dollars and the bulk of people are older and do not mod compared to younger n54 crowd.

So yes it is tiny tiny. You see the boards so all you see is enthusiasts.

I would agree that 07-13 E9X non M models would be a land slide in comparison to the 08-13 M3 production numbers. Compare the production numbers of the N54/55 cars to the M3 and I would be pretty confident in saying that there are more N54/55's but it wouldn't be tiny tiny in comparison.

Something I think your forgetting is that a nicely optioned 335i/is can hit 60K pretty quick. 135's/1M's can also get north of 50/65K also.

Originally Posted by EvenSteven

It would be interesting to see actual numbers on that.

Agreed.

I looked for production numbers on both models but couldn't find solid info.

[Sered]

Test pipes are overpriced. You can make excuses about r&d all you want as there really is no r&d on something like this beyond making it fit. At the end of the day its two pipes with a single flange, two o2 ports, and a split joint. Its a very simple design. Partswise its barely worth $100. Laborwise after establishing a simplistic jig, its maybe $50 tops, probably less.

Its an m tax and that's it. :-)

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by Sered

Test pipes are overpriced. You can make excuses about r&d all you want as there really is no r&d on something like this beyond making it fit. At the end of the day its two pipes with a single flange, two o2 ports, and a split joint. Its a very simple design. Partswise its barely worth $100. Laborwise after establishing a simplistic jig, its maybe $50 tops, probably less.

Its an m tax and that's it. :-)

Watch out.

That kind of talk around here and the next thing you know, your unegimicated and considered a salary worker

[EvenSteven]

Originally Posted by e46m3to135i

I would agree that 07-13 E9X non M models would be a land slide in comparison to the 08-13 M3 production numbers. Compare the production numbers of the N54/55 cars to the M3 and I would be pretty confident in saying that there are more N54/55's but it wouldn't be tiny tiny in comparison.

Something I think your forgetting is that a nicely optioned 335i/is can hit 60K pretty quick. 135's/1M's can also get north of 50/65K also.



Agreed.

I looked for production number on both models but couldn't find solid info.

Production numbers for the M3 are available.



So over 55,000 cars from 2008-2013.

I don't have such specific numbers for the 335i, but according to wikipedia (citing a BMW annual report), BMWNA sold 2,147,247 3-series cars between 2005 and 2009.

This isn't exactly scientific, but running those numbers means all of the M3 variants combined accounted for a bit over 2% of the annual production of 3-series vehicles.

So yeah, the M3 market compared to that of the N54/N55 is TINY.

[e46m3to135i]

Originally Posted by EvenSteven

Production numbers for the M3 are available.



So over 55,000 cars from 2008-2013.

I don't have such specific numbers for the 335i, but according to wikipedia (citing a BMW annual report), BMWNA sold 2,147,247 3-series cars between 2005 and 2009.

This isn't exactly scientific, but running those numbers means all of the M3 variants combined accounted for a bit over 2% of the total amount of 3-series vehicles made.

So yeah, the M3 market compared to that of the N54/N55 is TINY.

Until the N54/55 model numbers can be separated from that 2.1 million number. Its still speculation.

Thanks for posting the info though.