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02-28-2013, 07:31 PM | #133 | |
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I want more torque! I don't get to drive my car around the track so I guess I'll never know the limits of my car according to some....... I have a Toyota highlander with 4wd and a speed odometer that reads to 140 mph. I Don't plan on driving it off the top of dune at 139 mph so i'll probably never know its limits either. Traffic light to traffic light I want torque! AMG type torque! I want to roast my tires off if I feel like it with little effort. is that so bad?
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02-28-2013, 08:03 PM | #134 | |
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02-28-2013, 08:18 PM | #136 |
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I think you nailed it here. Fuel economy is on par with other eight-cylinder performance cars (using Merc as a personal reference point here). But a gas-guzzler needs bigger than a 16 gallon tank.
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02-28-2013, 08:45 PM | #137 |
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The car doesn't really need more torque. The s65 is one of the great engines in current mass production. I love it. But the car needs to be lighter. If this car had the curb weight of an e36 m3 - wow.
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02-28-2013, 08:57 PM | #138 |
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I dont think it "needs" more torque..but it would definitely improve mid-range driving
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02-28-2013, 09:00 PM | #139 |
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Brake ducts and factory exhaust sound that doesn't indicate it's a hybrid. Shaving off the weight of 2 passengers would be great also.
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02-28-2013, 09:09 PM | #140 |
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02-28-2013, 09:23 PM | #141 | ||
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02-28-2013, 09:28 PM | #142 |
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less weight but bigger fuel tank....
more torque with larger displacement but better fuel economy.... I think the fact that we're all pushing and pulling in all different directions means BMW engineered a pretty all-around and ideal car for the street and track. But I'll play, dipstick, and maybe interior materials (plasti-dipped trim pieces and leather that doesn't hold up to wear).
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02-28-2013, 11:11 PM | #143 | ||
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Could not fit a bigger V8 in this 3series, tight as it is under hood. The bump in hood was a necessity due to space. |
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02-28-2013, 11:56 PM | #144 |
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Well I guess everyone is going FI with the next M. Better get rid of that NA E9x M3. What a downer of an engine!
Have fun with your turbo'd torque ya frickin weirdos. |
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03-01-2013, 01:44 AM | #146 | |
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The reason why the engine wasn't built for absolute maximum torque was that some compromise had to be made to port design and cam choice to achieve the broad torque curve that the engineers wanted out of this engine. This is illustrated by the fact that it has one of the flattest NA torque curves out there for a production engine! Finally, the reason for not going with a larger displacement engine was that M wanted a high revving engine with the S65. As engine displacement increases the mass of internal components inevitably have to increase as do bearing journal diameters to deal with the extra forces generated by the added mass of components and higher forces that are a result of this. The problem is that heavy components do not want change direction as easily (When the pistons reach TDC and BDC and then reverse their direction) especially at higher engine speeds and larger journal diameters result in extremely high linear bearing speeds at the bearing surface. So in order to build an engine that turns 8K+ and has to last more than a few hundred miles smaller displacement is necessary, unless you start using exotic metals and extremely expensive components that aren't sensible for series production. |
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03-01-2013, 05:58 AM | #147 | ||
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So my two improvements for the M3: "Valvetronic exhaust" tied to the M button: If I'm not in M mode, I want the car to be quieter, so I can get up in the revs without looking like a douche. When I press the M button, I want the IPE F1 sound Larger fuel tank: I think the car gets great fuel economy vis a vis driving enjoyment and power. But I wish it had another four gallons or so of capacity -- e.g. a full week of commuting rather than filling up every three days.
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03-01-2013, 07:25 AM | #148 | |
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The alternative would be a 458 type engine - 4.5 L with 9k redline, 12.5:1 compression ratio and peak torque at 3250. That's a very sweet engine, but it's exotic, expensive and a gas guzzler. For the price range, particularly, the s65 is an awesome powerplant. We all know BMW will resort to turbos to get crowd pleasing low end power and efficiency. I'll miss NA, personally. |
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03-01-2013, 07:43 AM | #149 |
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03-01-2013, 08:59 AM | #150 | |
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How about just matching the torque per liter of the last M3? That would give the current engine 327.5 pound feet at 4900 rpm, meaning it's torque production at, say, 1500 rpm would probably be just a bit higher than now, but quite a bit higher as soon as you were at 3000 rpm, or even earlier. Bruce |
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03-01-2013, 09:28 AM | #151 |
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weakness: it's a huge dick magnet.
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03-01-2013, 10:07 AM | #152 |
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03-01-2013, 10:09 AM | #153 | |
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I personally believe it's an incredible engine from any angle, but when you consider those two design constraints it's absolutely amazing.
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03-01-2013, 10:19 AM | #154 | |
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And sure the s65 could have made a lot more torque in the middle of the curve but at the cose of a more narrow torque curve that fell off much more quickly. Look at the e60 M5. While more torque per litre, again the toorque curve falls off much more quickly and is not as flat as the m3. Notice even with this peak power per litre is greater in the m3. So again you look at driveability as well as area under the curve and the s65 is not oversquared for one, so comparing it to the s54 is silly as that design would not withstand 8400 rpms well nor would it breath up top. COmpromises made the s65 be able to have the torque and power curves it has where it pulls well beyond 8400 rpms because it can breath very well at the top with a bit of sacrifce at low end power |
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