What is the highest base price you are willing to spend on the E92/E90/E93 M3?

[ScottyGams]

^ at 68k, ill put in 2 more thousand and take a Nissan GTR!

please let the VERT be like 65k!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by lucid

OK Westwest888, let's make this happen. What is the proposed mechanism here? Does mkoesel hold the checks?

I think westwest's bark is much bigger than his bite. My prediciton: you will not be able to proceed with said bet.

Come on WW, prove me wrong ... and let me in on the bet as well.

[mdrobc13]

Originally Posted by NavNurs

One I have asked myself quite a few times. I guess it comes down to how you justify spending the money in the first place.

I figured a decent "cheap" performance car, if one existed, would run into the mid 40's. An example, if a replacement for the S2000 was created and was as capable as the M, it would probably be around that price point with tax/options. Therefore, spending ~15K more for a car that is as capable as a 911 and as practical as an accord seems reasonable in my book.

When I placed my deposit, the expected price increase was given as 5%. Then 8% was kicked around before the magazines started with their 30% figures. So...............

I guess a military sales price of ~50K base puts me at a 60K ceiling after 5k options/tax/Gax Guzz fine, and is where I am unable to move higher with a clear conscience.

The only car I would buy in place of it is..........most likely a used one with 10K miles on the clock. For me, once we start talking about 60K for a car, the 911 looks attractive for just a bit more. Certainly it wouldn't be a new one, but the 911S would be a fun car to drive.


Additional info for the logic stated above, while I feel overpaid for what I do, San Diego homes are running into the 900s for an acceptable unit. It would be difficult to justify spending +100K on vehicles for my girl and I while waiting for home prices to fall.

I agree with the above. I expect $55k or so base US...no more...no less. I think that's about 5-10% more than the e46 M3 was in 2001. BMW isn't crazy and V8 or not anything higher than that (i.e. $60k) is entering 911 territory albiet CPO/used ones at that. I got my 05 997 Carrera in Aug 06 for $66k from the dealer with 8,000 miles on it and you can do the same now for an 05-06 997 Carrera AND get an S to boot. So that added to the falling price of the dollar, credit/housing slump, and the fact that there are too many competitors (i.e. RS4, S5, C63, Infiniti M45, and new Lexus) out there or about to crest the horizon...to price the M3 into the stratosphere which is what putting it at $60k plus will do would be suicide for BMW NA. They wouldn't get that price...not at the volume they're trying to sell em for. Remember at that price you're basically paying TWICE the price of a 325 almost...and although its a great car from the reviews...it is still a 3 series. You could get an almost loaded 535i with allwheel drive and/or a 528 loaded for $60k.

Am not a betting man...but $<60k and above $54k is where my $$ is at. Otherwise I'll keep my Carrera and be just fine. Sad NOT to have the M3 next summer but fine! They'll be on CPO in 12-24 months for sure. Remember guys/gals this has happened before and its not like they've invented the wheel or someting. It too will come to pass...and hopefully things will settle down as BMW NA announces "something" in the few week between now, Xmas, and New Years! Hopefully we'll all get a nice present in the stockings/under the trees instead of a lump of coal when it comes to the price/options! Guess till then it will depend on how naughty or nice BMW NA wants to be to us next year...NOT how good we've been to them!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by mdrobc13

You could get an almost loaded 535i with allwheel drive and/or a 528 loaded for $60k.

Facts that only serve to solidify the value of the m3 for me. Basically, a world class sports GT for the same price as the "every man's midsize luxury cruiser" that you will see a half dozen or more of on your way to work.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I think westwest's bark is much bigger than his bite. My prediciton: you will not be able to proceed with said bet.

Come on WW, prove me wrong ... and let me in on the bet as well.

Yes, some people use the internet merely to launch the BS that they know they cannot get away with in real life.

[mrtm2005]

Originally Posted by mdrobc13

BMW isn't crazy and V8 or not anything higher than that (i.e. $60k) is entering 911 territory albiet CPO/used ones at that. I got my 05 997 Carrera in Aug 06 for $66k from the dealer with 8,000 miles on it and you can do the same now for an 05-06 997 Carrera AND get an S to boot..

Originally Posted by mdrobc13

Am not a betting man...but $<60k and above $54k is where my $$ is at. Otherwise I'll keep my Carrera and be just fine.

Again, I get confused where the comparison to M3 or go 911 comes from, for those who (I understand, mdrobc13, you probably aren't in this group) need to utilize the rear seats? I for one, still use all 4 seats in my M3s! My E46 M3 coupe has been able to fit my friends (seated 5'-9" F/6'-3" R) in the passenger seats very comfortably. I don't see that EVER happening in a 996 or 997 anytime, ever. So for me, even if the price is in the used 996/997 area, I'd still go with an M3.

[mdrobc13]

Originally Posted by swamp2

In comparing the M3, M5 and 911 I would say the verdicts are pretty much in. M3 matches the M5 in lower speed acceleration then gets bested as higer speeds, M3 > M5 at the track and in all handling regards. M3 > 911 in all performance metrics and matches or exceeds the 911S in many contests. You will be able to spend much more on a used M5 or 911S than a new base model M3 as well. Not sure how this is more car for the money ... unless the only criteria is badge or status.

I am done repeating myself.

Compromise, baby, compromise!

SWAMP2 as an owner of an 997 (the appropriate designation for the 05 and current 911's) AND a former owner of a 996 and an e46 M3; I must be sorry to burst your bubble but you are a little skewed here...basically you're wrong as you can be. The new M3 is NOT better than the 911 in all performance metrics and an 05 997 not to mention a 997S or 997 GT3/GT2/TT will have the M3's lunch all day long on a track or otherwise performance oriented road WITH an experienced driver. I know as like I've said I have/had at least 3 of the cars you mention. I find it funny you can make this statement not even having driven the new M3 yet to compare it to a 997, how is that so? I haven't even seen any comparision other than the "official" pub that BMW just released and even in that they quoted against a base 997 not a 997S which also has a 25hp advantage over the base 997.

I have an 08 M3 on order so I am not "hating" or anything on the car...I mean I can't hate on anything that I'm about to spend $50-60k on now can I but I think the performance comparisions you make are way off the mark. They are two different cars and classes. The 997 is a sports coupe period...one of the closest performance supercars/racing cars you can get to legally drive on the street. It makes you do all things well and rides like it is on rails, accelerates cleanly and the engine and shifter is smoother than butter. The M3 (an I am speaking of my former e46 here) is a sports sedan, it's heavier and takes more effort to drive faster and quickly than the 997. Anybody who has driven the two side by side on a regular basis will say so. The e46 again acclerates cleanly but revs higher and is slightly more edgy and you have to work more at it to drive it fast and at the same level as the 997.

I compare it to having two kids with ADHD. They both are hyper and you know it...the 997 is the kid after he's taken his Ritalin...he's calmer and focused but still hyper however he gets his work done. The M3 is your kid before the Ritalin..he's hyper and bouncing off the walls..he's focused but still a little energetic so you gotta put more effort to get the work done!

That said I look forward to bringing what I call "balance to the force" with the new 08 M3 cause although I do have the 997 for those "ADHD" momments; they both do it all so well that it's nice to chose between them and drive em both!

See ya!

[mdrobc13]

Originally Posted by mrtm2005

Again, I get confused where the comparison to M3 or go 911 comes from, for those who (I understand, mdrobc13, you probably aren't in this group) need to utilize the rear seats? I for one, still use all 4 seats in my M3s! My E46 M3 coupe has been able to fit my friends (seated 5'-9" F/6'-3" R) in the passenger seats very comfortably. I don't see that EVER happening in a 996 or 997 anytime, ever. So for me, even if the price is in the used 996/997 area, I'd still go with an M3.

MRTM2005
Oh I was NOT comparing the two...I was commenting on the comparision in prices and performance (see later post) that had previously been made. I have fit my whole family by the way in my 996 and my 997. Kids fit just fine in the back seats...those under the age of 8-10 that is. A buddy of mine put his wife back there on a recent drive with his mother in law in his 07 997 Targa...now I wouldn't go THAT far but hey it worked.

Granted I realize that most folks need more than 2 seats and for them the M3 makes sense however if you go JUST on price..considering performance and value/depreciation and if you want to look at exclusivity as you mention (fine...not my fully cup of tea) then my point was at $60-70k unless you just NEED an M3 there are multiple alternatives for the price which you could probably live with and really enjoy if you looked. For me when I got rid of my 996 and my M3 (at the same time..was buyin a new house) it was a matter of what I could live without (car wise) and what I'd regret the most giving up...I got my 997 cause while I could do without the M3; I'd be seriously pissed without the 997. (I did know a new one was on the horizon but don't tell the wifey that one..heh..heh) You don't seen them as was mentioned before "on every corner" so that held a little weight too but not that much.

I guess my point is...unless the M name or the seats (need to haul folks or carry alot of gear) is a dealbreaker then the 997 (used) IS an option and one that will hold its value...hoping that the M3 holds its value more than all the M5's out there have been lately. (my 997 still lists for $56-60k trade/$60-64k retail in KBB...and I paid $67k for it in Aug 06 CPO'd!)

That's all I was saying...your point on space is well taken and true.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by TheBry

So, based on this historical info, it seems reasonable to assume the M3 Coupe will start closer to $60K. I'll bet it's $59,900 - that's a nice round price-point and just below the psychological $60K barrier. And, I'll hazard a guess that'd make the convertible starting price at $68K. Just SWAG based on loose historical info, but that's all anyone else here is doing.

That would make it some $19,000 more than a 335i...

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Technic

That would make it some $19,000 more than a 335i...

Even more than that when you consider a 335i is eligible for ED and even discounts from ED MSRP. I received a quote for a PP, SP, met. paint, heated seats, CA 335i including $1000 for the trip @ $39.7K.

I almost went for it, but a local dealer had one on the lot I couldn't resist...

[mrtm2005]

Originally Posted by mdrobc13

A buddy of mine put his wife back there on a recent drive with his mother in law in his 07 997 Targa...now I wouldn't go THAT far but hey it worked

LOL...That had me rolling I wasn't arguing with you, guess I am just sick of seeing that mentioned every time I've read reviews on the new M3 on different posting boards.

As you mentioned, I agree, based on only price vs performance, I too would be heading for a 997 (specifically I LOVE the new GT2), though that still might happen even after getting the E93 M3 Sedan, for those fun drives by myself!

[mdrobc13]

Originally Posted by mrtm2005

LOL...That had me rolling I wasn't arguing with you, guess I am just sick of seeing that mentioned every time I've read reviews on the new M3 on different posting boards.

As you mentioned, I agree, based on only price vs performance, I too would be heading for a 997 (specifically I LOVE the new GT2), though that still might happen even after getting the E93 M3 Sedan, for those fun drives by myself!

The new GT2 is a beast...unless I "lived" for/at the track...couldn't justify the $$$ but it is very nice.

As for the backseat...I guess he loves his mother in law more than his wife....I've been back there for short drives (i.e. two buddies or family member up front when I just wasn't ready to give them keys and let em rip on their lonesome) and its not that bad. My kids love it when I pick them up from school in it and other than stacking bookbags in the trunk up front...it's not that bad a daily driver. Just don't plan on picking up the new plasma TV or going Xmas shopping in it unless you don't mind riding with your packages up front with you or making multiple trips! You plan a little more accordingly when driving it! LOL

[mrtm2005]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Both of the ///M3's that I purchased were around $55k in the manner that I had them optioned, and base price was high 40's.

I completely spaced!!! Both my M3s are SMG also...

[devo]

Originally Posted by mdrobc13

SWAMP2 as an owner of an 997 (the appropriate designation for the 05 and current 911's) AND a former owner of a 996 and an e46 M3; I must be sorry to burst your bubble but you are a little skewed here...basically you're wrong as you can be. The new M3 is NOT better than the 911 in all performance metrics and an 05 997 not to mention a 997S or 997 GT3/GT2/TT will have the M3's lunch all day long on a track or otherwise performance oriented road WITH an experienced driver. I know as like I've said I have/had at least 3 of the cars you mention. I find it funny you can make this statement not even having driven the new M3 yet to compare it to a 997, how is that so? I haven't even seen any comparision other than the "official" pub that BMW just released and even in that they quoted against a base 997 not a 997S which also has a 25hp advantage over the base 997.

I have an 08 M3 on order so I am not "hating" or anything on the car...I mean I can't hate on anything that I'm about to spend $50-60k on now can I but I think the performance comparisions you make are way off the mark. They are two different cars and classes. The 997 is a sports coupe period...one of the closest performance supercars/racing cars you can get to legally drive on the street. It makes you do all things well and rides like it is on rails, accelerates cleanly and the engine and shifter is smoother than butter. The M3 (an I am speaking of my former e46 here) is a sports sedan, it's heavier and takes more effort to drive faster and quickly than the 997. Anybody who has driven the two side by side on a regular basis will say so. The e46 again acclerates cleanly but revs higher and is slightly more edgy and you have to work more at it to drive it fast and at the same level as the 997.

I compare it to having two kids with ADHD. They both are hyper and you know it...the 997 is the kid after he's taken his Ritalin...he's calmer and focused but still hyper however he gets his work done. The M3 is your kid before the Ritalin..he's hyper and bouncing off the walls..he's focused but still a little energetic so you gotta put more effort to get the work done!

That said I look forward to bringing what I call "balance to the force" with the new 08 M3 cause although I do have the 997 for those "ADHD" momments; they both do it all so well that it's nice to chose between them and drive em both!

See ya!

+100. Where were you when Swamp and I bantered to near death the same 997S v. M3 battle? I'm with you all the way bro! And, the more I hear about the new M, the more likely I am to get another 911S.

[EBuyuk]

I am willing to pay in Turkey for an almost fully loaded E92 M3 about ~150.000 Euros which about $220.000. If it costs anymore, I will either buy an M5 again or a Carrera S.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mdrobc13

SWAMP2 as an owner of an 997 (the appropriate designation for the 05 and current 911's) AND a former owner of a 996 and an e46 M3; I must be sorry to burst your bubble but you are a little skewed here...basically you're wrong as you can be. The new M3 is NOT better than the 911 in all performance metrics and an 05 997 not to mention a 997S or 997 GT3/GT2/TT will have the M3's lunch all day long on a track or otherwise performance oriented road WITH an experienced driver. I know as like I've said I have/had at least 3 of the cars you mention. I find it funny you can make this statement not even having driven the new M3 yet to compare it to a 997, how is that so? I haven't even seen any comparision other than the "official" pub that BMW just released and even in that they quoted against a base 997 not a 997S which also has a 25hp advantage over the base 997.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We then have the facts. AFAIK the best unbiased list of performance figures I have is here. This is a nice list, I and many other forum members have contributed to the list, including the other big P-car fanboy here, devo. If you simply count the wins (against the 997S) for the E92 M3 you find 7, for the 997S over the M3 you get 1. I am sure you could dig up a few results that would add one or two in favor of the 997S (say 1/4 mi time in particular). However, any way you slice it you have a significant number of wins by the E92 M3.

Just to make sure we are abundantly clear here. I do not own and have not driven a E92 M3. I also have not owned nor driven a 997S. The great thing about this is that those details, as well as your ownership history, are 100% irrelevant to this discussion. Plain and simply:

E92 M3 >> 997 for performance (non S model)
E92 M3 > 997S in many cases
997S > E92 M3 in some performance metrics

If you care to weight performance achievements by price you then will have

E92 M3 >>> 997S

(P.S. I know we don't have an official price yet, but we all know about where it will be. Simply use the prices in other countries for this price dependent argument if needed.)

[devo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We then have the facts. AFAIK the best unbiased list of performance figures I have is here. This is a nice list, I and many other forum members have contributed to the list, including the other big P-car fanboy here, devo. If you simply count the wins (against the 997S) for the E92 M3 you find 7, for the 997S over the M3 you get 1. I am sure you could dig up a few results that would add one or two in favor of the 997S (say 1/4 mi time in particular). However, any way you slice it you have a significant number of wins by the E92 M3.

Just to make sure we are abundantly clear here. I do not own and have not driven a E92 M3. I also have not owned nor driven a 997S. The great thing about this is that those details, as well as your ownership history, are 100% irrelevant to this discussion. Plain and simply:

E92 M3 >> 997 for performance (non S model)
E92 M3 > 997S in many cases
997S > E92 M3 in some performance metrics

If you care to weight performance achievements by price you then will have

E92 M3 >>> 997S

(P.S. I know we don't have an official price yet, but we all know about where it will be. Simply use the prices in other countries for this price dependent argument if needed.)

If I didn't know that you were a BMW fanboy, I'd be insulted. Anyway, there are far more victories for the 997S than you claim. I mentioned the 0-100 sprint and the 1/4 mile runs, yet I don't believe that you added them. There is yet another braking test where the 997S posted the best ever time; better than the M's to date. Although, I can't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.

Lastly, the 911 is built as a sports car first, not a 4 seat compromise. You get what you pay for.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by devo

If I didn't know that you were a BMW fanboy, I'd be insulted. Anyway, there are far more victories for the 997S than you claim. I mentioned the 0-100 sprint and the 1/4 mile runs, yet I don't believe that you added them. There is yet another braking test where the 997S posted the best ever time; better than the M's to date. Although, I can't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.

Lastly, the 911 is built as a sports car first, not a 4 seat compromise. You get what you pay for.

Although I have no doubt the 911 offers the better comprehensive sports car "experience", functional performance is simply dictated by objective metrics. If you have any additional measurements for the 911 that you woud like to be posted, please post them here with references, and I or Swamp would be happy to add them to the list. Or you can add them yourself.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by lucid

Although I have no doubt the 911 offers the better comprehensive sports car "experience", functional performance is simply dictated by objective metrics. If you have any additional measurements for the 911 that you woud like to be posted, please post them here with references, and I or Swamp would be happy to add them to the list. Or you can add them yourself.

^+1, perfect.

@devo, I have posted your numbers for you, even the outliers! I realize the editing of this list and getting to south's suggestion that all new entities be in blue is a bit tedious (although no more tedious than making a simple html web page...). Like lucid said, provide your numbers, provide a link or proof and we will be happy to post it up for you.

BTW no idea about your fanboy reference above... I have an E36 M3, used to have an E46 M3 and have very serious plans to get an E92 M3. What is fanboy about my admissions?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by swamp2

^+1, perfect.

@devo, I have posted your numbers for you, even the outliers! I realize the editing of this list and getting to south's suggestion that all new entities be in blue is a bit tedious (although no more tedious than making a simple html web page...).

You know that you can make the complete list black again at once, don't you?
You guys also can send me a PM if you want to have anything added to this list, then I do the tedious job!

Sorry for the OT

Best regards, south

[devo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

^+1, perfect.

@devo, I have posted your numbers for you, even the outliers! I realize the editing of this list and getting to south's suggestion that all new entities be in blue is a bit tedious (although no more tedious than making a simple html web page...). Like lucid said, provide your numbers, provide a link or proof and we will be happy to post it up for you.

BTW no idea about your fanboy reference above... I have an E36 M3, used to have an E46 M3 and have very serious plans to get an E92 M3. What is fanboy about my admissions?

The fanboy reference was made in jest as a response to you calling me a fanboy. It's all good, as they say.

I guess I'd have to say that I am a P-car, BMW fanboy; no problem.

[Ray33]

Originally Posted by devo

If I didn't know that you were a BMW fanboy, I'd be insulted. Anyway, there are far more victories for the 997S than you claim. I mentioned the 0-100 sprint and the 1/4 mile runs, yet I don't believe that you added them. There is yet another braking test where the 997S posted the best ever time; better than the M's to date. Although, I can't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.

Lastly, the 911 is built as a sports car first, not a 4 seat compromise. You get what you pay for.

I was seriously looking at a 997 before i decided to go with the M3. Performance wise, (i had a loan of both for a day), there is not much in it. The thing that made my mind up, (and this is true) is that my wife thought the 997 looked like an old VW beetle from the front. Once she said that i couldnt get it out of my head. Also i suppose the fact that the M3 is just better and in my case €45,000 cheaper. There is a reason why porsche is the most profitable car maker in the world.