ESS VT3 - LC built engine failure in 2,000 miles

[filinm3]

It's a long story and the thread's title is self-speaking but I want to share that shitty situation I've been dropped in these "Happy New Year" days....

My car is E90 M3 2008 with DCT - well known in Russia (Moscow Unlim 500+) and Europe being the fastest ESS car there.

The story started in October 2009 when my car became the world's 1st production E9X M3 with ESS SC kit. The milleage was 13,000 miles at that moment. The car was DD and going through lots of pulleys and soft modifications, I was running VT2-625 with 92mm pulley (which is equal to VT2-650) for 2.5 years when in May 2012 at 67,000 miles the engine decided to blow... Piston is 7th cylinder was broken somehow and 3 inches hole appeared in the block...

That time I bought low-milleage (less that 1,000 miles) used 2011 engine and installed it. In May 2013 I installed VT2-650 spec crank pulley and 94mm SC pulley which resulted to almost 9 psi boost. That setup was used for 1 day Race Event (1 Mile race) only with 104 RON race fuel. After that day the car was reverted to normal VT2-650 specs.

However, in 2 weeks after that day this new engine also decided to blow, being used for 13,000 miles only... The hole in the block appeared in the 4th cylinder...

No need to say that the car was always serviced with love and oil was changed every 3,000 miles and fuel used was 98+ RON...

So, 2 engines gone is 1 year((((((((((

That time I agreed with ESS to send the car as it is to Norway from Russia for full VT3 build... That was late June 2013.

31 October 2013, after lots of problems with availability of BMW OEM spare parts, I received the car!!! However, it was tested on dyno for 50 runs and only half day of driving after the build cause it was very cold already in Norway...But the car was running absolutely clean during that testing (per ESS understanding) and Hans delivered the car to me!!!

ESS did:

1) fully build VT3 engine (low milleage "donor" was bought by them in Germany) with 10:1 pistons, Carillo rods, ESS rod bearings etc.

2) fully build VT3 fuel system.

3) VT3 belt system.

I was very happy and started my long trip to Moscow (1,500 miles) which I considered the best way for breaking in the engine on good european fuel...

On my trip to Moscow engine RPMs were no more than 4,000 - I am very conservative in breaking in procedures.... When I came to Moscow, I changed the oil and decided to go and make 2-3 runs from 40 to 250 kmh to understand the difference...

In the 1st run the car was extremely fast and was spinning the wheels at 2-3, 3-4 and 4-5 gear changes like it was lauch control from the stand point... even spinning the wheels so badly and hitting the RPMS limiter at all gears 100-200 kmh time was 5,7sec which is almost 0,9 sec faster than my VT2-650 best summer time on DRs!!!

I decided to start againg and at 4th gear at 6000 RPMS I felt some "boom-boom" sound in the exhaust and little jerking during the acceleration... That time I stopped testing and the next day the car was taken to a trailer to be delievered to my native town (1,000 miles from Moscow)...

I went to BMW dealer for diagnostic of any potential problem and had conversations with ESS on that... Nothing was found, except for some instability in fuel pressure regulator work, and ESS sent me out that regulator which I was waiting for 3 weeks from US... In the meantime, I was driving the car moderately and found the thing that the car was starting jerking at any speed if I floor the pedal more that 1/4, but at the same time could easily heat 270 kmh if pushing the peda moderatedly....

The whole milleage by the day of receiving new fuel pressure regulator and new sparks and coils (ESS recommendation to change) was 400 miles... Also, I ordered and received by that day Awron Gauge with full options...

However, when we let off the sparks, the following picture was with the spark from 4th cylinder... It was melted.... All other sparks were OK...

We measure the compression ration in all the cylinders and.... 10.5-10.7 in all except 4th cylinder - 8.8....(((

So, we installed all the new plugs, coils and FPR, and also fully discassembled the manifold for installation of EAS stack for boost gauge, then assemble all back and I leaved the dealer for testing... The car was running sooo clean that day on mid RPMS and fast driving!!! So, I decided to go full throttle...

1st run from 3rd gear from 40 to 230 kmh was clean and the time from 100 to 200 kmh was VT3 time...) I stopped the car and tried againg but from 2nd gear from 30 kmh. And.... at 7000 RPMS of that 2nd gear the car started jerking and afterwards working like 2 or 3 cylinders are not working.... (((

On that conditions I drove to the dealer (15 miles)... So, the whole milleage after changing the sparks etc was 70 miles. We took off the spark from that 4 th cylinder and it was melted the same way We measured the compression in that cylinder and it was 5.... Changing the spark did not help at all and the car did not work properly....

I decided to take it to the trailer to Moscow fro investigation by letting off the heads to understand the problem in detail... That was discovered:

1) From the side of 1-4 cylinders:

> burn-through of cylinder head gasket near 3-4 cylinder (2.7sm approx hole)
> scratches in 3 and 4 cylinder
> broken piston in 4th cylinder around the bottom of piston and not good piston in 3rd cylinder

2) From the side of 5-8 cylinders:

> scratches in 5 and 8 cylinders

The guys told me that the traces of detonation could be found in all 8 cylinders...

Fotos attached...

The only thing I am doing for last 7 days is crying in the situation of full silence and absence of support from anywhere

[mkPOTO]

wow that is horrible, anything from ESS?

[filinm3]

just missed the sections and do not know how to replace the thread....

[filinm3]

Originally Posted by mkPOTO

wow that is horrible, anything from ESS?

not yet

[stevens]

wow, couple of questions if I may.

Did you change the software when you changed the pully to run higher boost prior tothe VT3? if not id of hoped the mapping would use the safe guards and protect it, unless it was all top end and ran lean due to extra boost that it couldnt wring out.

When you realised one of the cylinders on your VT3 (no 4) was lower than the rest, why didnt you stop driving it and sort that out first? did you change the pully on the VT3 as well after it was built?

I really do hope you get something sorted as it sound like a lot of money you have spent and what should be an enjoyable time is a nightmate.

[quicktwinturbo]

Ouch... Good luck with everything..

[Someone?]

Wow thats shitty, for that engine being new it sure looks to have been burning bad.

[zackf80m]

shittt pls sorry for the bad luck

[INNOVATE_1]

The first and most obvious question: why did you continue driving it after the first sign of issues??

Like already mentioned, if you decide to replace for a third time, hopefully you stick the NA route..

GL..

[filinm3]

Originally Posted by stevens

wow, couple of questions if I may.

Did you change the software when you changed the pully to run higher boost prior tothe VT3? if not id of hoped the mapping would use the safe guards and protect it, unless it was all top end and ran lean due to extra boost that it couldnt wring out.

Yes, the soft was expecially for that boost. And the temps around were +28C, so the amount of good air was not excessively high for the fuel supplied...

When you realised one of the cylinders on your VT3 (no 4) was lower than the rest, why didnt you stop driving it and sort that out first? did you change the pully on the VT3 as well after it was built?

VT3 system of pulleys is totally new and not somehow similar to VT2. After the compression was measured at being 8.8 in 4 th cylinder and all the things were changed the car was runnning clean, prior to that pull. How is it possible to sort that problem is the compression is already 8.8???? That should have not been like that anyway fron the very beginning.

I really do hope you get something sorted as it sound like a lot of money you have spent and what should be an enjoyable time is a nightmate.

bold...

[filinm3]

Originally Posted by 2V4NOW

The first and most obvious question: why did you continue driving it after the first sign of issues??

Like already mentioned, if you decide to replace for a third time, hopefully you stick the NA route..

GL..

The milleage after the first signs was very-very low with RPMS no more than 3000. The car behaviour was absolutely OK that times and in the morning starts also. The issues were under load only but I did not pull prior to changing all the sparks, coils and FPR as ESS told to do... But by that time the compression in the cylinder was already low and nobody could detect when it was starting go lower, cause I remind - THE CAR WAS IN BREAKING IN PERIOD AND NO HARD DRIVING WAS DONE TO OBTAIN THAT RESULTS

[ilikebmxbikes]

Sorry for your troubles - hope it all gets sorted

[Mit_Boost]

Are any of your stack gauges for AFR? Figure it'd be very easy to monitor your Air/Fuel and the pistons clearly show signs of detonation (car was running too lean or too low octane). Also, that second photo it appears that oil is leaking into the cylinder? Oil is known to greatly reduce octane rating and could cause poor detonation, not sure if it was an issue on every cylinder.


If you want to continue with this car, you could always have someone else build you a motor (VAC) and have a custom tune done for your VT3 setup. Hopefully you have better luck going forward. I'm guessing that you're the Red VT3-700 E90 M3 that's been on the DragTimes YouTube channel?

[Ezio]

ya this does suck to have builds this. and having little support around.

[filinm3]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

Are any of your stack gauges for AFR? Figure it'd be very easy to monitor your Air/Fuel and the pistons clearly show signs of detonation (car was running too lean or too low octane). Also, that second photo it appears that oil is leaking into the cylinder? Oil is known to greatly reduce octane rating and could cause poor detonation, not sure if it was an issue on every cylinder.


If you want to continue with this car, you could always have someone else build you a motor (VAC) and have a custom tune done for your VT3 setup. Hopefully you have better luck going forward. I'm guessing that you're the Red VT3-700 E90 M3 that's been on the DragTimes YouTube channel?

Ya, it was VT2-700 car in May 2013.

By paying for full build car, I do not want to know any problems. Yes, AWron gauge could monitor everything but it was installed to late...

I want to be and would be with ESS only. Hope for their full support in that case.

[stevens]

Yes I hope you get something sorted, interesting how its still the same cylinder on all 3 engines (no 4), did you change the injectors for VT3 (im guessing so but just asking the obvious stuff first).

obviously was running hot, no failure on intercooling etc? what RON fuel do you usually use?

[stevens]

sorry it was just for 2 of the engines, 7 for the other cylinder.

[filinm3]

Originally Posted by stevens

Yes I hope you get something sorted, interesting how its still the same cylinder on all 3 engines (no 4), did you change the injectors for VT3 (im guessing so but just asking the obvious stuff first).

obviously was running hot, no failure on intercooling etc? what RON fuel do you usually use?

100 RON only or mix with 98 RON.

VT3 fuel system has its own big (550cc at 3,000 rpms) injectors and 2 fuel pumps.

It was cold around, from -3 to + 2, and engine oil temp were always around 90c max.

[Lute__]

Holy crap!

Good luck with repairs.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by filinm3

Ya, it was VT2-700 car in May 2013.

By paying for full build car, I do not want to know any problems. Yes, AWron gauge could monitor everything but it was installed to late...

I want to be and would be with ESS only. Hope for their full support in that case.

Sergi

You have been told for a very long time you have no warranty or support on your kits because you have always modified them with additional boost going back to your very first kit which ran a 92mm pulley. The VT2-625 runs a 96mm pulley with much different software than a 650 kit. You should never run a VT2-625 with a 92mm pulley unless you intend to take full responsability. AJ has always told you that your motors will blow if you run more than intended boost while racing at your events. Your 2008 car was over boosted and lasted 67,000 of hardcore racing. It lasted much longer than it really should have, you were lucky.

Your second motor you ran the VT2-650 crank and the same 92mm pulley which generates close to 12 psi of boost. This is far beyond what we run on our production kit. Off the shelf VT2-650 runs a 99mm SC pulley and generates 8 psi which is max you can run. Even if you claim 94mm with the 650 crank this is much smaller than what we spec and still generates close to 11 psi, you knew this at the time.

We do not sell a VT3 product to the public currently, there is no such product on our website and we do not offer support for such a product currently. You were informed that if we built you a prototype high boost setup there would be no support on it. You also picked up the vehicle without allowing us to do any road testing. You were informed by AJ at the time that we did not have proper time or road conditions due to weather to do any extended testing but you insisted on taking delivery anyway. You later contacted AJ complaining of hesitation on acceleration and a diagnostic report showing a failed 02 sensor. You were told NOT to drive the car at all until you could install gauges to monitor fuel delivery / AFR's which you did not do. You decided to continue driving the car anyway despite AJ's instructions up to speeds 180 mph according to your email. Your motor failed after you were warned to not drive it. I’m not surprised the motor gave out considering you most likely had a fuel delivery issue like a failed pump pickup or fuel pressure regulator and maybe a bad 02 sensor with continued high load use.

We told you before the motor blew to send the car in for inspection and you refused. You said you wanted to do it local. After your motor failed Hans told you over the phone last week to get the motor inspected locally then and follow up so we could see what could be done. You just emailed AJ and Hans yesterday with the results. Why would you make a post saying no one has followed up with you when we just got your email this weekend and we offered to help you out before the motor ever failed?

This is a very good reminder as to why we tell customers to NOT modify our products and run more boost than designed and to follow our instructions at all times. Hopefully customers who currently are doing so or are considering doing so will learn from your mistake and not run more boost than we design the kit to run.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by 2V4NOW

The first and most obvious question: why did you continue driving it after the first sign of issues??

Like already mentioned, if you decide to replace for a third time, hopefully you stick the NA route..

GL..

I think it's hard after you've owned Russia's fastest SC'ed S65.

An acquaintance wanted me to test drive his SC'ed M3, I told him NO, I dont wanna know what I'm missing.

[US///M3]

This is what happens when you are stubborn like Anatoly Dyatlov.

(For those who arent familiar with Dyatlov.)