a good major for college?

[Neil]

If you go by the average bonus even for the lowest paid at Goldman Sach's being $650,000 this year, including an average of $350,000 for just out of school students, I would say finance is a good choice if you want $$. Long ass hours, they typically work 8-8PM and during busy times 8am-1am+ but at the end of the day they make what they put into it. So the better you perform the more you make. The top men in the companies take home $100million+ in bonuses when they perform well. Also most of the CEO's typically have a background in finance so there is more room to grow than your typical degree.

[Agni]

Originally Posted by Neil

If you go by the average bonus even for the lowest paid at Goldman Sach's being $650,000 this year, including an average of $350,000 for just out of school students, I would say finance is a good choice if you want $$. Long ass hours, they typically work 8-8PM and during busy times 8am-1am+ but at the end of the day they make what they put into it. So the better you perform the more you make. The top men in the companies take home $100million+ in bonuses when they perform well. Also most of the CEO's typically have a background in finance so there is more room to grow than your typical degree.

Well the problem with that is you are competeing with tens of thousands of other people for 1 spot.

To even have a chance you need to be either well connected or graduate in the Top 10 from an Ivy league school.

[Louie A]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Not really true at all.
There is no real upper plateau (sp?), I mean, that would really suck if I (10 yr of exp + MSEE) and someone with 25 years of exp had the same pay. You cannot substitute the experience in Engineering...and driving

It is true. I also speak of experience from viewing the payroll at work (oh yeah, another benefit from working in finance). Unfortunately, this does happen more often then not. HR folks call it compensation compression.

Yes it does suck. But it is reality. At some point, on the value-add / professional experience curve, there are marginal gains for the enterprise to compensate individuals (with lengthier experience) with higher salaries.

Of course there are ways to break out of this such as getting an MBA and moving into the management track.

Regardless... He should choose something that he finds interesting and that will make him happy. People who are passionate about their work always tend to be more successful in the long run.

[enwhykiid]

Originally Posted by Neil

If you go by the average bonus even for the lowest paid at Goldman Sach's being $650,000 this year, including an average of $350,000 for just out of school students, I would say finance is a good choice if you want $$...

whats the difference between an investment banker and a financial advisor, and what is required to become an investment banker? e.g, classes, degrees etc.

[Louie A]

Originally Posted by enwhykiid

whats the difference between an investment banker and a financial advisor, and what is required to become an investment banker? e.g, classes, degrees etc.

Financial advisor = Someone who provides financial advice and guidance to individual people. They help ordinary people maximize their wealth through managing their investments. [Almost anyone who passes a series 7 exam can be a financial advisor]

Investment Bankers = Folks who cater to corporations financial needs. They can help raise capital through debt or equity, broker deals (i.e. acquisitions, divestitures), provide consulting on debt structures, help companies go IPO, etc. Given that they work with multi-million deals, their commissions and fees are quite lucrative. [Given the money to be made here, getting in this industry is quite competitive. Usually need to a top tier Ivy League degree. Also helps to know people]

[StewtheBassman]

Originally Posted by enwhykiid

being a civil or electrical engineer would be my second choice, is any body here a financial advisor or associate?

I'm a Financial Advisor with CIBC Wood Gundy in Montreal. I have a Fine Arts degree, but I kind of fell into the job.

It's all about GETTING clients and then KEEPING them. So you have to be tough, persistent and patient. What you actually KNOW is secondary since there are so many Managed Products these days. You don't have to be a great stock picker or economist, but it helps to underdstand economics and world politics and all that stuff.

[enwhykiid]

bottom line wut brings in more dough, investment banker, financial advisor, engineer?

[Hawkshaw]

Originally Posted by enwhykiid

bottom line wut brings in more dough, investment banker, financial advisor, engineer?

actuary

[Neil]

Originally Posted by enwhykiid

bottom line wut brings in more dough, investment banker, financial advisor, engineer?

I'd def say not engineer. They may make in the upper end of the middle class structure sometimes, low $100's but you rarely see an engineer making $500,000 or more a year unless they created their own company in which case you'd want some financial experience anyways.

Don't expect to be pulling in the deep 6 figures with the other two unless you have a serious work ethic. You need to graduate from a top 10 business university with good marks to get recruited by the top firms. Then you need to put in big hours, build a clientelle of the stars, and make the company money. You make the company money and they will reward you greatly.

Go to Goldman's website, go to their careers section, read the employee's daily briefings (tells what goes on in a normal day for different careers) and maybe this will help you.

Personally I say don't make decisions based solely on money because if your heart isn't into the job, putting in 15 hour days will kill you, and your employer will notice if you aren't performing. A lot of jobs can put you into the low 100's but there are few to get you into the high 6 figures.

[Pedal2Floor]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'd def say not engineer. They may make in the upper end of the middle class structure sometimes, low $100's but you rarely see an engineer making $500,000 or more a year unless they created their own company in which case you'd want some financial experience anyways.

Regarding engineering -- I am in the engineering field. Specifically, software engineering. In order to break the 100K and see salaries in the in the 300K to 500K area you need to first work for a company that actually has a technical ladder. Some companies have a management ladder and a technical ladder with positions in the ladder that mirror each other all the way up to the top. You will have to work through being an engineer, sr engineer, principal engineer and then work through the fellow, jr fellow and sr fellow ladders. In the fellow level you would get a bonus based on the company profit. Some of the sr fellows at my company are in the 300K to 500K per year range which is inline with VPs. To become a fellow you will have to become a patent production machine. This will involve many, many, many long hours. At the Sr. Principal level you are looking at 100K to 200K level and your compensation will be based on revenue your section or group makes and how you helped make that money -- not necessarily patents but bringing products to market. Other compensation would then come in the form of restricted stocks but your salary would be capped at about that level.

To do any of this you have to work for a Martin Marrietta, Boeing, United Technologies, Cisco, Microsoft, IBM, EMC, HP, Texas Instruments etc. and not unless you have a lot of years of experience or you can demonstrate some serious skills.

That said, you better have people skills and networking skills no matter what you do. Also, if $$$ is your only passion, you should reconsider your thinking. You better damn well like whatever you do because you will be doing it for a long time. Over the years I have seen many people burn out.

From my personal experience and having worked for many of the big names in tech, I have settled at a Sr. Principal level (which is demotion from a past Fellow position but I am much happier) because while I will work my butt off, I do like other pursuits as well and rather have a work-life balance which my current job allows me to have. I occasionally, when the poop hits the fan, have had to go in on the weekends. The same cars are in the parking lot and they are all the fellow level engineers -- and they are there all the time. No thanks -- I rather be driving my car. From my company's own stats, the engineering dept at all levels avgs. 56.5hr/weeks and fellows avg. 68.5hr/weeks.

Most importantly, I do love my job and what I do and cannot think of doing anything else. I do sometimes lust over 100k+ Porsches and a Z8 I see every once and a while -- but I am happy where I am and the thought soon passes. So whatever you choose, make sure you know what you want in life as well as work because knowing will help you the rest of your life. You will need to first define what success means to you and realize that definition will change over time.

So, yes, while between 100K and 200k is nothing to sneeze at, its not uber money and engineering will not make you dirt stinking rich unless you can do something on your own like an independent consultant or your own company. The Uber money seems to be on Wall Street.

Ok, my rant is over

[sblument]

engineering starting salaries are now in the low to mid 50s and you can make 70s-80s within 5 years

[northernlights]

It depends so much on your post-undergrad objective. If you're going to law school, you can major in virtually anything, although it's been empirically validated that philosophy majors perform well on the LSAT. Med school and you have to be so methodical w/your curriculum that a hard science major is mandatory if you want to spare yourself from future post-bac rigamarole. As far as a relative paydirt major, I'm not sure if there is one anymore. I think you need to be creative, if not innovative, and combine disciplines. I have an English Lit. BA and a Psychology MA that I parlayed into a PR/Marketing gig for a network of psychiatric hospitals. I happen to love the personal outcomes engendered by my daily face to face contacts, speaking engagements etc., and that's ultimately what it's about, regardless of your choice--those feelings of purpose and enjoyment and growth.

[enwhykiid]

money is a major issue but i have a lot of interest in all three of my choices i like working with my hands and fixing and building things aerospace would be my first choice in that field, but ever since i was little, i have been good at math and my whole family is a business oriented family. im strongly considering investment banking

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by Neil

If you go by the average bonus even for the lowest paid at Goldman Sach's being $650,000 this year, including an average of $350,000 for just out of school students, I would say finance is a good choice if you want $$. Long ass hours, they typically work 8-8PM and during busy times 8am-1am+ but at the end of the day they make what they put into it. So the better you perform the more you make. The top men in the companies take home $100million+ in bonuses when they perform well. Also most of the CEO's typically have a background in finance so there is more room to grow than your typical degree.

No it does not work that way.

1. Analysts start at about $60K at major I-bankin houses The annual bonus starts at about 10K, goes up 10K each year (10K, 20K, 30K).

2. After that, most analysts are asked to leave the firm. They usually go to get an MBA.

3. They come back as an associate. A first year associate will make between 150K and 200K INCLUDING bonus. Goes up between 50K and 100K each year after that.

4. Next step is vice president. Veeps make about 500K a year.

5. Next step is either Senior Veep or Managing Director. MD is the holy grail in investment banking. The average MD makes between 1M and 10M.

6. Beyond the MD, some select few make partner status.

NO ONE makes over 100M in income at Goldman. Even the CEO's income was in the high 90s.

The hours in Mergers and Acquisitions (the "glamourous" side of I-Banking) is a LOT worse than 8am-8pm. It's usually 8am to 3am the next day. My sister works in investment banking and there was a week where she slept only 5 hours (the whole week).

[Squawks]

How to make money? Easy, become CEO, make the company suffer from poor performance and profits, get fired, and get paid a hefty severance package.

Henry McKinnel, Pfizer - or the ex-CEO of Home Depot. Both received over $200 million (that's $200,000,000) for being fired. Or the guy who left the NYSE, who go about a quarter of a billion for quitting. Or the guy who got ousted in Morgan Stanley (quarter of a billion).

Man, nothing beats getting fired but at the same time getting compensated (all because you did a bad job). Wowza!

Moral of the story: That's why I never liked business (or finance) because most of the people in it are crooks (or at least the sucessful ones). Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia, KPMG, Tyco, Freddie Mac, Qwest Communications, the list goes on.

[StewtheBassman]

Wow, Squawks, where have you been since September?????


BTW just because those guys are crooks doesn't mean you have to be or that they all are.....

[markis64]

u cant go wrong with a major that will make u happy at the end of the day... if ur passionate the money will come.

[Squawks]

Hey, Stew - I got a little caught up with school and work. Actually in my case, work is part of the program so it's school altogether. It's a PhD program so it's actually easier than undergraduate times. I see that things here have changed quite a bit but am quite surprised that a number of troopers are still around (e.g. you, mava, nikki, and many other familiar names). Thought I should just swing by the forums any chance I get after some nice memories were brought back when I recently read my issues of Roundel.

You are right that not all business folks are crooks, but it certiainly gives everybody in the field a bad stigma. I can be an honest businessman if I wanted but I think it would be pretty difficult to compete against others willing to take immoral (and/or illegal) steps.

[NocturnalEVO]

Whats a good major that doesn't involve much math that leads to a well paying job? And not in the medical field or anythign like that. By well paying job, i'm looking at 50k+ a year.

[picus]

I wonder how many folks actually work in the field they have a degree in? I know Stew doesn't!

[StewtheBassman]

LOL!!!

[markis64]

Originally Posted by Squawks

Hey, Stew - I got a little caught up with school and work. Actually in my case, work is part of the program so it's school altogether. It's a PhD program so it's actually easier than undergraduate times. I see that things here have changed quite a bit but am quite surprised that a number of troopers are still around (e.g. you, mava, nikki, and many other familiar names). Thought I should just swing by the forums any chance I get after some nice memories were brought back when I recently read my issues of Roundel.

You are right that not all business folks are crooks, but it certiainly gives everybody in the field a bad stigma. I can be an honest businessman if I wanted but I think it would be pretty difficult to compete against others willing to take immoral (and/or illegal) steps.

Do you go to Ithaca College?