MT Drivers - Would you drive an M3/M4 if it came with this?

[Kong Sheng Han]

If it were to redline at around 8000 rpm, I would consider it. Don't have the monies though, so don't care..

[SenorFunkyPants]

I would have thought this would be perfect for the USA (90% of cars are automatic) market!

[J5isalive]

Originally Posted by M3_Montreal_SSII

Please explain to me, I just don't understand how learning to drive in a car with a manual transmission can help one understand how all the parts of the car work together.

All you need to teach is how to engage and disengage the clutch pedal with a short lecture on shifting at a certain revolution.
After that, one day of practise is enough to get pretty much anyone to drive a car with manual gearbox

As far as I know, a simple interest in the mechanical aspects of cars can teach you a lot more than learning to drive a manual gearbox (I learned to drive with manual transmission as well, and have been driving 6MT for the past 7 years, with moderate track experience)

From what I know, the only advantage of manual transmission over automatic transmission in daily-driving situations (such as commute, etc.) is keeping the driver a bit more focused. Please let me know if there is anything else. And I won't agree with statements like "better fuel efficiency" or some sort of those crap

Leave him alone, he clearly has no idea what he is talking about, and probably knows very little about car control. His "Double Clutching" comment was a dead give away that he has zero idea what he is doing.

Let him have his moment.

[jin.patrick]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

yes and hopefully about 6 drinks into her as well.

[jin.patrick]

Originally Posted by J5isalive

Leave him alone, he clearly has no idea what he is talking about, and probably knows very little about car control. His "Double Clutching" comment was a dead give away that he has zero idea what he is doing.

Let him have his moment.

Oh hahahah I must have missed that "double clutching" comment.

Who knows, maybe he drives a 18-wheeler for living and is training his son to become one too
(There's nothing wrong with driving trucks for living)

[1MOREMOD]

Stick also gives the ladies something to mess with if limp mode occurs.

[nullrouted]

You guys are so cool... yeah, screw that guy for wanting to teach his son how to drive a manual. What a jerk. Better to keep him ignorant on the subject... yet you guys are the same ones saying 'I grew up on MT, been driving it for years, but DCT is better' -- And if some of you DCT fanboys haven't ever driven an MT, then that's just

Yes, DCT is technically superior to MT, it shifts faster, hands down, there is no debate.

But I don't see anyone on here claiming their MT is faster than your DCT.

What people are talking about is why they enjoy their MT over the DCT option. For me, it's just because DCT is boring. Sure it's fast, but I feel disconnected from the operation of the car and I personally do not like that.

Do any of you cook your own meals at home, or do you all go out to eat every day? You know, because then someone else cooks for you. I'd wager many of us cook because we like to (even if restaurant food might taste better). Same idea here.

Until someone says MT is faster than DCT, all we have here is a subjective debate about personal preference with no right answer.

Keep fighting the good fight guys.

[jin.patrick]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

You guys are so cool... yeah, screw that guy for wanting to teach his son how to drive a manual. What a jerk. Better to keep him ignorant on the subject... yet you guys are the same ones saying 'I grew up on MT, been driving it for years, but DCT is better' -- And if some of you DCT fanboys haven't ever driven an MT, then that's just

Yes, DCT is technically superior to MT, it shifts faster, hands down, there is no debate.

But I don't see anyone on here claiming their MT is faster than your DCT.

What people are talking about is why they enjoy their MT over the DCT option. For me, it's just because DCT is boring. Sure it's fast, but I feel disconnected from the operation of the car and I personally do not like that.

Do any of you cook your own meals at home, or do you all go out to eat every day? You know, because then someone else cooks for you. I'd wager many of us cook because we like to (even if restaurant food might taste better). Same idea here.

Until someone says MT is faster than DCT, all we have here is a subjective debate about personal preference with no right answer.

Keep fighting the good fight guys.

No one is fighting here
Overly emotional much?
I have both 6MT and DCT, and I enjoy driving both.

Have you driven both 6MT and DCT on a long term? If not, your "personal preference" is very biased because you don't fully know how both are. Of course you would find reasons to justify why you chose 6MT over DCT, otherwise it would be like you are admitting that you regret your choice.

I never said DCT was better than 6MT. My point was to disagree with the statement "by driving 6MT, you can learn so much more about mechanical aspects of cars".

[jin.patrick]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

You guys are so cool... yeah, screw that guy for wanting to teach his son how to drive a manual. What a jerk. Better to keep him ignorant on the subject... yet you guys are the same ones saying 'I grew up on MT, been driving it for years, but DCT is better' -- And if some of you DCT fanboys haven't ever driven an MT, then that's just

Yes, DCT is technically superior to MT, it shifts faster, hands down, there is no debate.

But I don't see anyone on here claiming their MT is faster than your DCT.

What people are talking about is why they enjoy their MT over the DCT option. For me, it's just because DCT is boring. Sure it's fast, but I feel disconnected from the operation of the car and I personally do not like that.

Do any of you cook your own meals at home, or do you all go out to eat every day? You know, because then someone else cooks for you. I'd wager many of us cook because we like to (even if restaurant food might taste better). Same idea here.

Until someone says MT is faster than DCT, all we have here is a subjective debate about personal preference with no right answer.

Keep fighting the good fight guys.

Btw, your "cooking" analogy is completely pointless

Let me ask you then, do you use your laundry machine or do you hand-wash all your clothes "manually"?

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by M3_Montreal_SSII

No one is fighting here
Overly emotional much?
I have both 6MT and DCT, and I enjoy driving both.

Have you driven both 6MT and DCT on a long term? If not, your "personal preference" is very biased because you don't fully know how both are. Of course you would find reasons to justify why you chose 6MT over DCT, otherwise it would be like you are admitting that you regret your choice.

I never said DCT was better than 6MT. My point was to disagree with the statement "by driving 6MT, you can learn so much more about mechanical aspects of cars".

No, I have never driven BMW's DCT long term, however it is no different (in terms of 'how' you physically drive it) than many other automanual systems with paddles on the steering wheel, it's simply an upgraded version of them. I've driven several other automanual cars long term, and test drove the DCT M3. In all cases, I preferred having manual control of the gearbox. For me it is much more fun.

[VMcV3y]

Originally Posted by i001947

Yeah I know, but it gets old afterwards.

If the 2014 M4 only comes in DCT, this Forum will be a wasteland because there'll only be discussions about paint choices...

And we already know that Atlantic Blue is better than Atlantis Blue... or, wait, did I get that reversed? Frak.

- V

.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by M3_Montreal_SSII

Btw, your "cooking" analogy is completely pointless

Let me ask you then, do you use your laundry machine or do you hand-wash all your clothes "manually"?

Laundry isn't something anyone enjoys doing. Driving is a pleasurable experience, so is cooking for many people. I find the analogy works just fine.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by VMcV3y

If the 2014 M4 only comes in DCT, this Forum will be a wasteland because there'll only be discussions about paint choices...

And we already know that Atlantic Blue is better than Atlantis Blue... or, wait, did I get that reversed? Frak.

- V

.

B-thumper would not be impressed with you V...

[jin.patrick]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

No, I have never driven BMW's DCT long term, however it is no different (in terms of 'how' you physically drive it) than many other automanual systems with paddles on the steering wheel, it's simply an upgraded version of them. I've driven several other automanual cars long term, and test drove the DCT M3. In all cases, I preferred having manual control of the gearbox. For me it is much more fun.

Fair enough, and I'm not disagreeing with that.
No one was trying to fight here, so no need to get all defensive.

Personally, I don't drive the 6MT as much as my DCT because I live downtown of a fairly big city and traffic can get quite irritating.

One thing I can say confidently though, the "upgraded version automanual system" of E9X M3, as you labelled, is superior to all other double-clutch transmissions out there except for PDK

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by M3_Montreal_SSII

One thing I can say confidently though, the "upgraded version automanual system" of E9X M3, as you labelled, is superior to all other double-clutch transmissions out there except for PDK

That is most likely true, although I'm not sure I would count Ferrari's DCT out, or the other supercar makers. For standard production cars you're probably on the money. The DCT shifting was ridiculously quick when I did the test drive, I'll give it that.

[Edward]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

Laundry isn't something anyone enjoys doing. Driving is a pleasurable experience, so is cooking for many people. I find the analogy works just fine.

Eh, not true. The overwhelming majority of people hate the act of driving no matter what the car. In fact, young people are buying far less cars than ever before. That's only partially due to the slow starting economy.

I LOVE driving more than your avg enthusiast and I cannot be bothered with old technology that allows me to inefficiently drive. More involvement does not equal more joy to me. I have as much fun flipping through gears and focusing on other aspects of the drive. Less is more.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Edward

I LOVE driving more than your avg enthusiast and I cannot be bothered with old technology that allows me to inefficiently drive. More involvement does not equal more joy to me. I have as much fun flipping through gears and focusing on other aspects of the drive. Less is more.

Good for you. No need to justify your decision to buy an automatic by putting down the manual. By your definition, the simple advent of the automatic transmission made any manual car obsolete since it is then old technology.

The bottom line is that for people who are truly manual transmission enthusiasts, only a manual transmission will do. To these people, at the end of the day, while the DCT is certainly an awesome piece of technology and shifts super fast, its still just an automatic transmission.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Edward

Eh, not true. The overwhelming majority of people hate the act of driving no matter what the car. In fact, young people are buying far less cars than ever before. That's only partially due to the slow starting economy.

That's true, I guess I should have prefaced that with 'to the people driving is pleasurable for...' or something, because even my own mother refuses to drive MT for that very reason, so I know what you're saying.

As for the young not buying cars, I have read those reports, but I think it does have more to do with the economy than anything else. Cars are a huge financial burden and drain on your beer money if you can just catch a ride with your buddy (or on a subway, if you live in a big city). Most of these kids (what 52%?) can't even get a job when they leave college. I think that's more of an indictment of the current crop of young people and their (idiotic) priorities than anything against cars themselves. Cars represent freedom, more so than any other mode of transportation. They do not require a ticket to ride, and in several days you can be across our huge country. Young people eschew them at their own peril.

Originally Posted by Edward

I LOVE driving more than your avg enthusiast and I cannot be bothered with old technology that allows me to inefficiently drive. More involvement does not equal more joy to me. I have as much fun flipping through gears and focusing on other aspects of the drive. Less is more.

That's one of the best arguments I've ever heard against MT, well said.

[Edward]

Originally Posted by Lute

Funny, I thought it was one of the worse. If you are an inefficient driver because of MT, it is because your skills as an MT driver are not adequate.

I do agree with the less is more part. Less complexity through technology that is

Isn't that what I just said? My MT skillls are not at a professional level, so it makes my driving inefficient. Did you just regurgitate exactly what I said back to me as if I was contesting what I was saying? Mugatu. Crazy pills. I feel like I'm talking to zoolander now...

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Lute

Funny, I thought it was one of the worse. If you are an inefficient driver because of MT, it is because your skills as an MT driver are not adequate.

I do agree with the less is more part. Less complexity through technology that is

Yeah, I guess that's really what I meant when I agreed there. Just that a good DCT-type car will allow you to focus more on the actual steering inputs, braking properly, accelerating out of corners, etc... while still propelling you (even in D4 or D5 on the street let's say) at a good clip. MT is somewhat of a 'distraction' -- and as such I do believe that MT track times in the same car should definitely be valued much higher than 'I'm faster than you' DCT times

Less complexity through technology is also a good thing (hell, it's my entire business and how I own an M3 in the first place.... just so I can drive it manually ). I don't really agree with gatorfast though, saying that AT made MT outdated -- it wasn't until DCT trans came around that it became true. Old AT's were not as fast as MTs at all, thus they were not the 'technologically superior' option back then, just the lazy one.

[Cool Steel]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

You guys are so cool... yeah, screw that guy for wanting to teach his son how to drive a manual. What a jerk. Better to keep him ignorant on the subject... yet you guys are the same ones saying 'I grew up on MT, been driving it for years, but DCT is better' -- And if some of you DCT fanboys haven't ever driven an MT, then that's just

Yes, DCT is technically superior to MT, it shifts faster, hands down, there is no debate.

But I don't see anyone on here claiming their MT is faster than your DCT.

What people are talking about is why they enjoy their MT over the DCT option. For me, it's just because DCT is boring. Sure it's fast, but I feel disconnected from the operation of the car and I personally do not like that.

Do any of you cook your own meals at home, or do you all go out to eat every day? You know, because then someone else cooks for you. I'd wager many of us cook because we like to (even if restaurant food might taste better). Same idea here.

Until someone says MT is faster than DCT, all we have here is a subjective debate about personal preference with no right answer.

Keep fighting the good fight guys.

The bolded statements above sum it up nicely and we must all accept this. His opinion is that DCT is boring this is an opinion and we all have one - accepted. Don't agree but accepted. Also, he admits that the DCT is technically superior and faster which is FACT. IMOP speed is all that matters, however, everyone is different if you need to row gears to be happy than go at it.

[Edward]

Originally Posted by Cool Steel

The bolded statements above sum it up nicely and we must all accept this. His opinion is that DCT is boring this is an opinion and we all have one - accepted. Don't agree but accepted. Also, he admits that the DCT is technically superior and faster which is FACT. IMOP speed is all that matters, however, everyone is different if you need to row gears to be happy than go at it.

You're right on the different arguing points. This argument has always been one where each side tries to force their perceived benefit of one vs the other as the end all right benefit to judge a car against.

MT guys say it's all about fun and engagement and control etc.

DCT guys say it's about efficiency, speed, perfect shifts, new technology.

I guess there's nothing more to say. one person values one thing and the other values another thing.