Spring install at shop, need advice on work done

[L-Altos]

I recently had my H&R’s swapped out for Eibachs at a very reputable shop in my area. They have done dozens of E9x springs and have never had a complaint that I know of, and have several forum members very satisfied with their work.

I hung around while they did the work and thought I knew what to expect. When they took the spring/shock assembly off the car (front) it looked a bit weird. They had to unbolt suspension parts, such as the wishbone, and did the spring swap with the whole assembly removed from the vehicle. I didn’t really have anything to say at the time because what they were doing may be normal when you are using a lift in a shop.

After they put the shock assembly back on the car I noticed that they were tapping a few of the suspension pieces, like the wishbone, with a small hammer in what looked like an effort to get things to line up correctly. Again, I don’t know if this is normal or not.

So now I would like check the torque values on whatever they may have removed, but I cant say that I would know how many things they had to unbolt to do the job, and what else I should be checking for.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by L-Altos

I recently had my H&R’s swapped out for Eibachs at a very reputable shop in my area. They have done dozens of E9x springs and have never had a complaint that I know of, and have several forum members very satisfied with their work.

I hung around while they did the work and thought I knew what to expect. When they took the spring/shock assembly off the car (front) it looked a bit weird. They had to unbolt suspension parts, such as the wishbone, and did the spring swap with the whole assembly removed from the vehicle. I didn’t really have anything to say at the time because what they were doing may be normal when you are using a lift in a shop.

After they put the shock assembly back on the car I noticed that they were tapping a few of the suspension pieces, like the wishbone, with a small hammer in what looked like an effort to get things to line up correctly. Again, I don’t know if this is normal or not.

So now I would like check the torque values on whatever they may have removed, but I cant say that I would know how many things they had to unbolt to do the job, and what else I should be checking for.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Was it tapping or pounding? Tapping the suspension pieces to align them is totally normal. Check out this thread for torque specs.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183005

[Technic]

Originally Posted by L-Altos

I recently had my H&R’s swapped out for Eibachs at a very reputable shop in my area. They have done dozens of E9x springs and have never had a complaint that I know of, and have several forum members very satisfied with their work.

I hung around while they did the work and thought I knew what to expect. When they took the spring/shock assembly off the car (front) it looked a bit weird. They had to unbolt suspension parts, such as the wishbone, and did the spring swap with the whole assembly removed from the vehicle. I didn’t really have anything to say at the time because what they were doing may be normal when you are using a lift in a shop.

After they put the shock assembly back on the car I noticed that they were tapping a few of the suspension pieces, like the wishbone, with a small hammer in what looked like an effort to get things to line up correctly. Again, I don’t know if this is normal or not.

So now I would like check the torque values on whatever they may have removed, but I cant say that I would know how many things they had to unbolt to do the job, and what else I should be checking for.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I do my own spring installs in my garage, with just simple tools, and I have never removed any suspension part other than the struts... I just cannot understand why a full blown shop, with all kind of professional tools have to remove a wishbone to install a spring.

[GTM]

The instruction that was listed on this site for changing springs WORKS but it limits the room you pulling the springs out.

Some mechanics might just take off the control arm to get enough room to work on.
From what I hear, this was the case, where he just remove the control arm and other parts for easier(not quickest tho) way to swap the springs.

[L-Altos]

Originally Posted by Technic

I do my own spring installs in my garage, with just simple tools, and I have never removed any suspension part other than the struts... I just cannot understand why a full blown shop, with all kind of professional tools have to remove a wishbone to install a spring.

Well that is what I was expecting, a very simple procedure similar to the DIY posted here. I have done a couple of spring installs in the past, but its winter here and I needed to get it done, so a few hours in the shop made more sense.

I didn't watch the entire thing, but checked on the process every so often. It looked like the put the car on the lift, took off the wheels, and then turned everything to the left to get better access to the struts. When I came back later, the struts were off the car and they were removing the springs on a work bench. Thats when I noticed a couple of suspension parts that had been disconnected and were hanging.

I have been looking at the torque values on the linked post and there are not any listed for the parts I want to check.

Namely I want to check on bolt # 18 of part # 19 in this diagram

Like I said before, a lot of forum members have used this place so its highly recommend, so I wasnt about to scrutinize their methods, but at the same time I would like to check everything out myself for peace of mind

[L-Altos]

Thanks GTM, it looks like your theory may have been the case. Judging from the responses here it doesn't seem like their meathod is very common, but they must think it is the quickest?

I was thinking of going back and asking them to explain the logic behind the install, but they may see that as a personal attack, challenging them on their work methods. So far the car feels fine, and the alignment is intact, but I need to have someone go over it just for the peace-of-mind.

I'll have to find some place to have the alignment checked in a week or so, and hopefully I can have the place check out the control arms at that time

Originally Posted by GTM

The instruction that was listed on this site for changing springs WORKS but it limits the room you pulling the springs out.

Some mechanics might just take off the control arm to get enough room to work on.
From what I hear, this was the case, where he just remove the control arm and other parts for easier(not quickest tho) way to swap the springs.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by L-Altos

Thanks GTM, it looks like your theory may have been the case. Judging from the responses here it doesn't seem like their meathod is very common, but they must think it is the quickest?

I was thinking of going back and asking them to explain the logic behind the install, but they may see that as a personal attack, challenging them on their work methods. So far the car feels fine, and the alignment is intact, but I need to have someone go over it just for the peace-of-mind.

I'll have to find some place to have the alignment checked in a week or so, and hopefully I can have the place check out the control arms at that time

Actually their method is probably more common among licensed mechanics that work in shops because they are the ones who would have the proper tools to remove all that stuff. I would guess that this method is probably closer to what is described in the factory service manual. Plus more room to work is usually better for them than worrying about a few more minutes of labor. Most shops will charge you book time anyway but if they don't, they will charge you in at least 0.5 hour increments. For DIYers, less removal is the preferred method so that is probably why it seems more common on the forums.

[zamm3k]

As L-Altos pointed out some parts, it is probably common to loosen those control arms in order to get the suspension moving a bit more freely and as stated above, more room to work with. I've had to this a couple of times on the 135i I had, and I didn't have to do it on the M3. Its normal for experienced mechanics to do it, so I wouldn't worry about it at all.

[Technic]

I have to admit, the E90 -and even the E82- front struts have been much more difficult to remove to me than the E36/E46 front struts.

There was a time that I just unbolted the front struts assembly and removed them without compressing the spring first. But in my last two installations I had to compress the spring a lot before I could remove the strut assembly without hitting the fenders. I did have a hard time pushing the strut carrier down to clear the fender, though.

Perhaps that's the rationale in removing the carrier arms to clear the fenders without compressing the spring first... that will make removing the strut assembly quick and easy. However, that assumes that the shop will put everything back with the correct torque values and without damaging the bushings.

[JAJ]

Having done the front of my own BMW's before, there are a couple of things you have to pay attention to:

(for reference, the "steeing knuckle" is that complex casting that clamps the bottom of the strut and to which the wheel bearing is bolted. It's what the suspension "suspends" when the wheel is taken off)

- you have to undo the sway bar link because if you don't the sway bar will prevent you from moving the steering knuckle down so you can swing out the strut top

- if the strut assembly is "long" and won't swing out without a lot of force downward on the knuckle, there's a risk that you'll damage the rubber boots on the ball joints by swinging them too far.

If you have the right tools, popping the ball joints out of the knuckle is easy and ensures that you don't damage the rubber boots. If you break one of them, you replace the whole arm.

[BimmerRob08]

OP,

I've been a mechanic for over 10 years and two things I would do and have done after a shop does any work on my car I could not do due to time constraints or equipment I may not have.

If you can use a lift that would be best, otherwise jack the car up on stands in your garage. Get your tools out and slide underneath and start checking that all bolts/nuts to any suspension parts are tight. You can use a torque wrench but if something is overtightened, the wrench will click naturally.

I would not worry to much of what they did or didn't disconnect as their are several ways to do the same jobs and sometimes technicians will remove stuff to facilitate easier the work and making it easier for them or not to damage other stuff by having to work around parts.

Also, some hardware for suspension parts is supposed to be replaced once you remove it. I installed a Saab performance suspension system and it came with new hardware. Unless those bolts are old and rusted with tens of thousands of miles, I would not worry about new hardware that much. And most hardware for the suspension is hard to over-torque unless the mechanic is a real knuckle dragger.

If you trust these guys didn't over-torque stuff, I would just check all the bolts & nuts as I described before to make sure.


Good luck.

[L-Altos]

Been out of town for the holidays. Thanks for all of the input guys. A little piece of mind goes a long way with an M3. As GTM and Technic suggested, the removal of the carrierl arms was to make the job easier/faster. I drove my car in at 9:30 and was driving out at 11:45, pretty quick if you ask me.

As BimmerRob08 said, it would take a lot of effort to over-torque everything, and since this shop has an excellent reputation I would hope that everything was done correctly. Its the dead of winter now, so its going to be difficult to check all of the bolts but when we get a few warm days I'll give it a go.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by L-Altos

Been out of town for the holidays. Thanks for all of the input guys. A little piece of mind goes a long way with an M3. As GTM and Technic suggested, the removal of the carrierl arms was to make the job easier/faster. I drove my car in at 9:30 and was driving out at 11:45, pretty quick if you ask me.

As BimmerRob08 said, it would take a lot of effort to over-torque everything, and since this shop has an excellent reputation I would hope that everything was done correctly. Its the dead of winter now, so its going to be difficult to check all of the bolts but when we get a few warm days I'll give it a go.

Yeah, I think you will be fine. At a minimum I would at least get the car up on jacks or a lift and give it a once-look over at everthing. I once had a Nissan XE 4x4 and had a body/suspension lift with 33' tires/wheels installed. I had it done at a reputable offroad performance shop in VA beach. I go to pick up the pick-up and I did my look over out front of the shop and found they had forgot to install the steering stabalizer absorber from the kit. Then once that was taken care of I drove home. There I find they left a body-V-bracket that connected from the driver's cab to the chassis just dangling since it could not reach the absorber where it attacked anymore due to the body lift. And also found one of the bolts attached to the pick-up-bed to chassis was so loose I could spin it with my fingers.

So, these jack off's were real jerry's boys mechanics but still a look over will let you sleep at night. Good luck.