Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

I'm actually talking about the guy with the WCP coated bearings, but it's good to see some admission of post aftermarket install, bearing failures.

As others have pointed out, WPC is a treatment, not a coating; and it's done on factory BMW (OEM) bearings, not aftermarket ones.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by aus

PLEASE click the member's name you want to ignore. "View Public Profile"
Then under their name, click the down arrow next to "User List" and "Add to ignore list."

You guys are letting one member F#CK up this thread... just like he's F#CKED up a bunch of other threads.
.

Oh nice! I did not know we had the ability to do that, thanks man blocking him now.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

As others have pointed out, WPC is a treatment, not a coating; and it's done on factory BMW (OEM) bearings, not aftermarket ones.

Correct, and iv been running WPC treaded bearings for 30,000 miles now supercharged with flawless oil reports.

[pbonsalb]

In the interests of being open minded, jcolley, who does know what he is doing and is credible and respected, has taken apart two S85 that received WPC treated stock bearings and found the bearings to be in bad shape. Those were S85, not S65, but the two motors are closely related and seem to have similar bearing issues. I have WPC treated bearings in my S65, now with about 15k miles, and am not worried.

I continue to believe bearing replacement should be the first line of defense.

[MrFeisty]

Following a long battle with my local BMW dealer (Who sold me the car) it was repaired with a “New” engine and a 50% “good will” contribution by BMW towards the repair cost. Total cost was in the order of $40K AUD or $30K USD.
Turns out that due to the robustness of these motors BMW don’t seem to think it necessary to keep stocks of new motors and my “new” motor appears to be a “remanufactured” item. (Perhaps the word “new” has a different meaning in German)

There is a requirement under Australian law that manufactures keep a stock of spare parts for a “reasonable period of time” what ever that is. As these cars have only been out of production for a couple of years, a supply of "new" engines should be available.

As I said before, to get to the bottom of this BMW need to come clean on exactly how many engines (or bearings) they have replaced or supplied for replacement to third parties.

In my case I never drove the car following the failure. When the repairs were completed I had it shipped off to be sold.
I love my family and will not put them in a vehicle that is a potential death trap.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MrFeisty

Following a long battle with my local BMW dealer (Who sold me the car) it was repaired with a “New” engine and a 50% “good will” contribution by BMW towards the repair cost. Total cost was in the order of $40K AUD or $30K USD.
Turns out that due to the robustness of these motors BMW don’t seem to think it necessary to keep stocks of new motors and my “new” motor appears to be a “remanufactured” item. (Perhaps the word “new” has a different meaning in German)

There is a requirement under Australian law that manufactures keep a stock of spare parts for a “reasonable period of time” what ever that is. As these cars have only been out of production for a couple of years, a supply of "new" engines should be available.

As I said before, to get to the bottom of this BMW need to come clean on exactly how many engines (or bearings) they have replaced or supplied for replacement to third parties.

In my case I never drove the car following the failure. When the repairs were completed I had it shipped off to be sold.
I love my family and will not put them in a vehicle that is a potential death trap.

No one ever received a new S65 from BMW with or without warranty,it comes always as a rebuild or “remanufactured” S65 .

The word ..."Potential death trap" I find exaggerated , but I need to say that I know about 2, and I stored pics of one accident in Germany probably caused by BF at + 200 km/u .

One thing is for sure...More will come , because worldwide something is seriously wrong with the S65 and S85 bearings .
It's really funny because I knew this before I bought my car , because a family member had BF with his S85 and sold the amazing white ///M6 limited edition with only 8K miles on it and still under warranty , but he lost 40% value on the car in only 11 months because the S85 was replaced .

I feel sorry about your luck , but I would love to know what was the reason why your S65 failed and why it was replaced ?

[MrFeisty]

If you refer to my original post the car nearly killed me when the bearings let go on a busy highway in very wet conditions and I was nearly cleaned up by a truck, so I don't think death trap is overstating the situation. I might add recalls are usually mandatory when as BMW them selves state that there is a possibility due to a known defect that:
As noted in relation to the above recall of the N51, N52 & N55 series engines, "If the vehicle is being driven and slows down or stops unexpectedly this poses an accident hazard to the driver and other road users".

BMW have stage managed this well.
And my issue is that I was told that I would get a new engine.
Under Aussie law:

"A refurbished good or part is likely to be considered as a used good/part that has been reconditioned or restored to an acceptable working order.

If a repairer sometimes uses refurbished parts to fix defective goods rather than new parts, or sometimes replaces defective goods with a refurbished version, they must also give the consumer a repair notice before accepting goods for repair.

Unlike the notice for goods capable of storing user-generated data, the notice must include specific wording required by the ACL.

This wording is:

"Goods presented for repair may be replaced by refurbished goods of the same type rather than being repaired. Refurbished parts may be used to repair the goods.

A repairer must provide this repair notice whether or not they know before inspecting the goods that they will use refurbished parts in a particular repair or supply refurbished goods instead of repairing the goods.

A repair notice can be included in another document provided by the repairer (for example in the terms and conditions document for the repair) so long as it clearly distinguishes the notice from other information in the document, stating that the notice is given under the ACL, and is not hidden or otherwise obscured within the document (for example, in fine print) and provided before the repairer accepts the goods for repair."

Which they did not comply with.

[335m]

The paperwork I received with my vehicle which received a "new engine" due to rod bearing failure stated that my "new engine" cost $16k and it was installed with "components from old motor that were cleaned."

I have yet to drive to that dealer to figure out what all is new or old but I feel as if the previous owner should have received more than 4 pages of "new engine... kind of" paperwork. The only part numbers listed were for seals if I recall correctly.

[MrFeisty]

Update:
I am assured by the dealer (in writing) that re-manufactured engine 11002303728 is in fact a new engine that has never seen service in another car, and the supplied parts are “New”. The only recycled components are all external from the failed engine from my car. I will not get in to a legal quagmire over this and accept that this is the case as they have stated. If anyone knows better I will happily stand corrected.
I am personally still not convinced that the manufacturer and dealer network are unaware of a latent defect in the bearings (usually 1 on S65 engines and 3 on S85 – which is an interesting correlation), however, this will need to be proved. If you are interested look up:
polymer shearing
http://australiancar.reviews/bmw_S85.php
http://australiancar.reviews/bmw_S65.php

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by MrFeisty

Update:
I am assured by the dealer (in writing) that re-manufactured engine 11002303728 is in fact a new engine that has never seen service in another car, and the supplied parts are “New”. The only recycled components are all external from the failed engine from my car. I will not get in to a legal quagmire over this and accept that this is the case as they have stated. If anyone knows better I will happily stand corrected.
I am personally still not convinced that the manufacturer and dealer network are unaware of a latent defect in the bearings (usually 1 on S65 engines and 3 on S85 – which is an interesting correlation), however, this will need to be proved. If you are interested look up:
polymer shearing
http://australiancar.reviews/bmw_S85.php
http://australiancar.reviews/bmw_S65.php

Not sure what you are so concerned with on the new engine... I also received a factory remanufactured engine from BMW due to rod bearing failure and it is essentially brand new! I would rather have a reman than an original because the original motors were built from the same production lines as your first engine- which grenaded...

If it makes you feel better, my new engine feels way stronger than my previous motor, and I have over 15k miles on it so far and its a beast!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MrFeisty

If you refer to my original post the car nearly killed me when the bearings let go on a busy highway in very wet conditions and I was nearly cleaned up by a truck, so I don't think death trap is overstating the situation. I might add recalls are usually mandatory when as BMW them selves state that there is a possibility due to a known defect that:
As noted in relation to the above recall of the N51, N52 & N55 series engines, "If the vehicle is being driven and slows down or stops unexpectedly this poses an accident hazard to the driver and other road users".

BMW have stage managed this well.
And my issue is that I was told that I would get a new engine.
Under Aussie law:

"A refurbished good or part is likely to be considered as a used good/part that has been reconditioned or restored to an acceptable working order.

If a repairer sometimes uses refurbished parts to fix defective goods rather than new parts, or sometimes replaces defective goods with a refurbished version, they must also give the consumer a repair notice before accepting goods for repair.

Unlike the notice for goods capable of storing user-generated data, the notice must include specific wording required by the ACL.

This wording is:

"Goods presented for repair may be replaced by refurbished goods of the same type rather than being repaired. Refurbished parts may be used to repair the goods.

A repairer must provide this repair notice whether or not they know before inspecting the goods that they will use refurbished parts in a particular repair or supply refurbished goods instead of repairing the goods.

A repair notice can be included in another document provided by the repairer (for example in the terms and conditions document for the repair) so long as it clearly distinguishes the notice from other information in the document, stating that the notice is given under the ACL, and is not hidden or otherwise obscured within the document (for example, in fine print) and provided before the repairer accepts the goods for repair."

Which they did not comply with.

I see...
As for a recall ...I will "never" expect a recall from BMW for our S65 engines because BMW had never a fix for the worldwide bearing failures of our S65's and S85's .
This makes me think on the BMW ///M- engineering , because I'm sure they are no fools .
And now there are several aftermarket bearings available for our S65 ...
Are this guys with the aftermarket bearings smarter than the BMW engineers ?
Personal I don't think so...And it makes me think twice .

But we saw also S65's with 100 and 200K miles on it , others failed with only 6K on it !
And that's why I said more than once on here ..Our S65 is actually a **German lottery**

[pbonsalb]

Here is a link to another rod bearing failure not yet reported in this thread:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1259012

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Here is a link to another rod bearing failure not yet reported in this thread:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1259012

Indeed more will come , like I said above in my post # 1392.
Seems there is no end to the list ....
The worldwide BF list "not reported" to this forum would fill several pages !

Thanks for sharing .

[///M Power-Belgium]

I said in the other thread that I had to add 3 on here => post #46 http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1262599&page=3

1-The Belgian "Sonny-Heyman" May 16 (Private group member-drivers of the European ///M Flight)
It's a 2010 E92 with 165K km on it , blown engine with hole in underside of the motor block (black hole) see pics on page 1 & 2=> http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1262599
He said yesterday to me ...You may post it on Bimmerpost .
=> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
He is still confused of what actually happend ,and he's not sure to go for repair (if it's possible) or just go for an engine replacement.
He is not Bimmerpost member .
------------------------------------------------------------
2- The German "Sascha-Ernst"
He replied in the same thread to Sonny-Heyman that he had a S65 blown engine as well with 65K km on it and it happend one week earlier .
He said...Piston went through the motor (black hole) and posted 2 pics .
He is not Bimmerpost member .
------------------------------------------------------------
3-"williemandowa" was already posted by phonesalb in #1398 on this page => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1259012
Member on Bimmerpost .
------------------------------------------------------------
Registration was required on the Private group member-drivers of the European ///M Flight to get the information and I had to answer 7 questions before my registration was confirmed .

My special thanks goes to the European secret group of ///M Flight members (drivers)

[aus]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I said in the other thread that I had to add 3 on here => post #46 http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1262599&page=3

1-The Belgian "Sonny-Heyman" May 16 (Private group member-drivers of the European ///M Flight)
It's a 2010 E92 with 165K km on it , blown engine with hole in underside of the motor block (black hole) see pics on page 1 & 2=> http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1262599
He said yesterday to me ...You may post it on Bimmerpost .
=> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
He is still confused of what actually happend ,and he's not sure to go for repair (if it's possible) or just go for an engine replacement.
He is not Bimmerpost member .
------------------------------------------------------------
2- The German "Sascha-Ernst"
He replied in the same thread to Sonny-Heyman that he had a S65 blown engine as well with 65K km on it and it happend one week earlier .
He said...Piston went through the motor (black hole) and posted 2 pics .
He is not Bimmerpost member .
------------------------------------------------------------
3-"williemandowa" was already posted by phonesalb in #1398 on this page => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1259012
Member on Bimmerpost .
------------------------------------------------------------
Registration was required on the Private group member-drivers of the European ///M Flight to get the information and I had to answer 7 questions before my registration was confirmed .

My special thanks goes to the European secret group of ///M Flight members (drivers)

Thank you.
Looks like that Facebook page has been deleted or is private.
.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by aus

Thank you.
Looks like that Facebook page has been deleted or is private.
.

Indeed it's private , that's what I said above as well
The long story... ( a week in short )

I PM'd aussiem3 about the Belgian , because I saw the Belgian plates on the car and he thought the car was from the Netherlands .
I wanted absolutely contact the Belgian about his blown S65 because we speak the same language , also we/I see rarely ///M3's in Belgium.
So I asked via PM to aussiem3 to send me the link from where he saw the picture of the car with the Belgian plates and the blown S65.
And I had the same problem as you , the link was not working for me because it's the "private group" of the European ///M Flight (member-drivers)
So I was stuck...Because contact was still not possible .

aussiem3 told me that registration was required to contact the members , and so I registered myself with the 7 questions on the European ///M Flight secret/private group and was finally able to contact the Belgian with the blown S65 with the help from aussiem3 , he contacted me with the European ///M Flight Admin ....
So I became member of the private European ///M Flight group and I could contact the Belgian with the blown S65 as well .
I noticed very nice and kind people on ///M Flight Europe
Oughhh.......
Hope you know about the rest...

All my pleasure..

[MrFeisty]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

No one ever received a new S65 from BMW with or without warranty,it comes always as a rebuild or “remanufactured” S65 .

The word ..."Potential death trap" I find exaggerated , but I need to say that I know about 2, and I stored pics of one accident in Germany probably caused by BF at + 200 km/u .

One thing is for sure...More will come , because worldwide something is seriously wrong with the S65 and S85 bearings .
It's really funny because I knew this before I bought my car , because a family member had BF with his S85 and sold the amazing white ///M6 limited edition with only 8K miles on it and still under warranty , but he lost 40% value on the car in only 11 months because the S85 was replaced .

I feel sorry about your luck , but I would love to know what was the reason why your S65 failed and why it was replaced ?

You are right about the loss in value to the car when the engine is replaced. I guess prospective buyers assume the car has been abused if the engine fails in a relatively short period of time. It adds insult to injury having to pay north of $20K fore a new engine and loose an additional $10k of market value when you go to sell it. The replacement was due the usual Number 1 bearing not getting sufficient lubrication, and when it died it caused a catastrophic drop in oil pressure and spread metal fragments throughout the engine. (would you be happy with a re-manufactured engine block that had suffered such a failure?)
It would appear that a new engine is not necessarily a new engine if you are dealing with BMW. When they say you are getting a new engine, and it turns out its re manufactured, they will still say it’s a new engine and it’s never been in another car, you see. What they really mean is the Re-manufactured Engine as an entity has never been in another car. Its constituent parts may have been in another car. In another life. But they are now new. Because BMW has a magic wand that makes old things new. (Metal fatigue? What’s that?). I had during initial negotiations that I did not want (and would not pay for) a reconditioned engine. I would go elsewhere if that was that was all they had to offer, as I did not want the dealer to profit further from me as I believed they are aware of the BF issue. That was made clear. No they said – not rebuilt. New engine for you matey boy!
I understand that that things get recycled and re-purposed.
Just don’t play semantics with the language, tell me the truth and don’t charge me for something you didn’t supply. That is called fraud.

Question
how do you know your BMW dealer is lying to you?
Answer
His lips are moving.

[chief]

Engine blew this weekend - have a hole in the top of the engine between the cylinder banks in the valley. Don't know if rod bearings are root cause, but it sounds familiar and consistent with what others have experienced. A claim is being prepared for submission by dealership on my behalf to my 3rd party (not BMW) extended warranty provider.

Car = 2008 e92, DCT, 65,000+/- miles, regular scheduled maintenance performed.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by chief

Engine blew this weekend - have a hole in the top of the engine between the cylinder banks in the valley. Don't know if rod bearings are root cause, but it sounds familiar and consistent with what others have experienced. A claim is being prepared for submission by dealership on my behalf to my 3rd party (not BMW) extended warranty provider.

Car = 2008 e92, DCT, 65,000+/- miles, regular scheduled maintenance performed.

Ouch sorry man.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by chief

Engine blew this weekend - have a hole in the top of the engine between the cylinder banks in the valley. Don't know if rod bearings are root cause, but it sounds familiar and consistent with what others have experienced. A claim is being prepared for submission by dealership on my behalf to my 3rd party (not BMW) extended warranty provider.

Car = 2008 e92, DCT, 65,000+/- miles, regular scheduled maintenance performed.

We met this weekend - still wishing you good vibes on that engine!

[aussiem3]

It's interesting the blow up is happening around the 65k km or miles mark.

[kb9uwu]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

It's interesting the blow up is happening around the 65k km or miles mark.

My S65 has 153,000km, do you think it will blow at 165,000?