[PiSCaRGoT]

Hi all,

First up, loads of respect to everyone who contributes to this forum. It is the best globally for the N54 platform, hands down.

So here's the deal :
I have recently changed 6 injectors to 261 part numbers (before this it was all pre-recall). They have been coded properly via INPAload. Since I didn't have the torque settings for the hard fuel lines, I just torqued them by feel, and tested for any leaks under high revs. Everything looks good.
I've changed all the spark plugs recently too.

I also installed PWM Meth and I'm firing 50/50 by volume. The install is good and everything works.

So here I go logging my runs, and the first thing I noticed on both Map1 and Map2 (when meth is firing), the car swings from max positive fuel trims at about 3k rev, then swings to max negative fuel trims around 5k rev. I had to do severe tweaks to the OL fuel Map 1 and Map 2 to get it "normal".

Also I notice on the onset of boost up to about full boost, there is a weird see-saw of AFR before it tapers down to 12-13 regions. This is consistent with all runs, with both Map 1 and Map2.

I have included my logs and OL Fuel snapshot, and also my logs & maps.

Any help is very much appreciated.
My first few guesses is hardware related. Broken O2 sensor, clogged fuel filter?

[psu139]

Did you get the flashers for meth flow? Also thought map 4 was meth map. I guess in user tuning its map 2.

[PiSCaRGoT]

Flasher for meth flow? Don't follow.

Yup, on user tuning its Map2, but when I'm driving, I'm on Map4 mode, which auto switches between Map1 and Map2 depending on meth flow.

[PiSCaRGoT]

Also to note, there's 2 snapshot of logs up there. One is Map 1 mode, another is Map4 mode.

Map 1 (non meth injection) also exhibits the same characteristics :
- Swing from max positive fuel trims to max negative fuel trims
- See-saw of AFR on onset of boost (until full boost)

[Ilma]

Did you also reset all your long-term adaptations using INPA?

When I replaced three of my injectors, I didn't reset the adaptations and had all sorts of wild readings on that bank until I did.

I suspect your DME has stored patterns based on your old injectors and would take a while to relearn the new ones.

Resetting the long-term adaptations probably shortens this learning process.

I also don't like the abrupt transition in your OL tables for upper rpms......although I can understand why you are doing it.

[PiSCaRGoT]

All I did was cycle through the adaptation reset options in Procede (that will be from 12 down until 3).

Do you still recommend I go in to reset via INPA? Also, anything in specific that you would recommend that I should reset in there?

[jdbretz]

It almost looks like the changes you made to the OL fueling map are what is causing your trims to go so negative. If anything I would reload the base map at default settings, apply the changes to Map 2 for meth, then take a log and post it. At least with that we have a starting point to go off of without having to factor in the mapping changes you made.

What octane fuel are you running? Did you reduce the timing correction on Map 1 to 50%? I am used to seeing at 100% for Map1. You timing didn't look great in the Map1 log you posted so you may want to consider changing it back to 100%.

[NY135ivishnu]

Witch methanol kit did you use ?

Do you have auto tuning on? And at what boost level is it kicking in?

Have you adjusted timing ??

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Clear Adaptations again, and go back to a default map again.

If you can reset with INPA do that too. Anything Fuel Related and O2 sensor. ( I havn't visited that area in the longest time so I cant remember).

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by PiSCaRGoT

All I did was cycle through the adaptation reset options in Procede (that will be from 12 down until 3).

Do you still recommend I go in to reset via INPA? Also, anything in specific that you would recommend that I should reset in there?

Nope.....Procede will not reset the long term DME adaptations.

You have to specifically use INPA to reset these.

Specifically you need to reset the long term fuel trim adaptations.

I didn't actualy do mine.....just watched as an observer....but first pass on INPA we only did the injector coding and my fuel trims went crazy until the long term fueling adaptations were reset.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by jdbretz

It almost looks like the changes you made to the OL fueling map are what is causing your trims to go so negative..

When fuel trims go negative it means there is too much fuel being delivered and the DME is pulling out fuel.

In the OP's OL table, he actually reduced open loop fueling in the rpm range where his trims are going negative.....so in fact, he was heading in the right direction.

But regardless, I agree that the numbers change too abruptly up top and are probably wreaking havoc on the DME to see such sudden changes in fueling.

Good advice to reload the base maps BUT also to reset the long term adaptations.

Here is my open loop table modified to deliver more fuel than the default maps..
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[PiSCaRGoT]

Great great advise, I'm strapping on INPA now and see if this changes things.

BTW Ilma, I noticed your map has a 70% Meth DC in the filename... did you reduce the DC mapping from where they are 100% to 70%?

Reason why I'm asking, is that I am thinking of doing the same thing. I feel that the new PWM Meth kit seems to be flowing quite high (around high 40), and I have a bit of fear that I might get hydrolocked. Tell me I'm paranoid.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by PiSCaRGoT

Great great advise, I'm strapping on INPA now and see if this changes things.

BTW Ilma, I noticed your map has a 70% Meth DC in the filename... did you reduce the DC mapping from where they are 100% to 70%?

Reason why I'm asking, is that I am thinking of doing the same thing. I feel that the new PWM Meth kit seems to be flowing quite high (around high 40), and I have a bit of fear that I might get hydrolocked. Tell me I'm paranoid.

You won't get hydrolock, but your negative fuel trims are telling you that too much fuel is being injected to meet your target AFRatio. At one point I increased the nozzle size to dual 1.2mm and got a similar flow rate to yours in the 40's.......felt it was too much though and swapped back to the 1.0mm nozzles.

With my current Meth DC settings, the flow rate drops to 23 in the midrange and tapers up to 27 at higher rpms.

So cutting down on meth volume via the Meth DC table is a good way to manage the extra fuel that spraying meth introduces.

Joshboody posted this 70% meth DC table and I use it currently with a few tweaks.

I suspect that you get better atomization with duty cycles below 85% due to the increased pulsing effect of the Fast Acting Valve.

Here is the Meth DC table......it uses 50% in the midrange and tapers up to 70% at higher rpms.

Works quite well for me.
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[PiSCaRGoT]

Thanks. Adaptations reset via INPA, and loaded default Stage 2 maps.
Going out to do some logging now.
I'm going to give this meth DC table a try, will report in my findings.

[PiSCaRGoT]

A big BIG thanks to Ilma and Jeff (and everyone else who chimed in) for the advise!

The INPA adaption resets did the job! Everything is back in order again. Logs below done with Ilma's version of Meth DC table, and boost start 75%.

Let me know what you guys think. Still room to go boost start 85%?

ps - If you can see in the picture, it looks like one of my AFR banks are totally off in the graph. But when I open the log file directly, the AFR is very similar both banks. I've attached the csv file as well, can anyone figure out why Vishnu Analysis is going wonky??

[enrita]

probably wrong scaling of the value of 1 bank. click on that graph, click P and make them both the same.

[Ilma]

^ What Enrita said......the scaling factor is not identical for the two AFR data channels.

Here is your data regraphed:

Looks good! It will probably smoothen out a bit more with some more adaptation.

I noticed your Intake temps are in the 90's even when spraying meth. Are you using the stock intercooler or is it just that warm in Malaysia?
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[PiSCaRGoT]

Ah, I'm such an idiot, finally found out how to scale each of the items in the graph. I was actually clicking on the graph area and pressing P, wondering how come I only see scaling options for the first display item. :P

BTW I noticed the AFR and fuel trim on Bank 2 still does a yo-yo, even after adaptations reset. Doesn't happen on Bank 1. Happens without meth too. Needs to adapt more, you reckon? Or could be a sign of hardware failure?

[PiSCaRGoT]

Oh yes, on intake temps, ambient was about 100f. Its f*ckin' hot in Malaysia, and humid too. All year round.

As I sat there under the shade after some pulls, I saw the IAT heatsoaked all the way up to 140f. Started dropping to 115f after I started moving again.

I'm using the ETS intercooler, I feel its not the best out there but it does the job in keeping it manageable without meth in the mad weather here.

[Wedge1967]

OP, not to introduce additional fueling, but if Meth is cheap in Malaysia it might not be a bad idea to drill and tap a meth nozzle on the hot side or your FMIC. I'm using a Rev 3 and with the new firmware for flex fuel I have my PWM wired directly into the PROcede so I'm not using a boost switch to activate meth. I can purge my meth system from the wheel at 3k rpm using the - volume control. Going to a smaller nozzles on a charge pipe and the addition of a pre-IC nozzle might help manage your AITs in that climate.

Also want to remind you that Methanol boils at 65c / 149f so hopefully you have a trunk mount methanol tank. If not, you're taking a real chance of catching your car on fire. Jeff and I can both provide you first hand information about meth fires. Good luck...

[PiSCaRGoT]

I did read some post on the risk of fire. I'm unfortunately using the WW solution, as I'm driving an E93 so trunk space is absolutely crucial.

As a precaution, I'm using 50/50 by volume, so its around 55/45 water/meth.
I hope that's good enough, what are your thoughts?

[pinky_and_me]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

I'm using a Rev 3 and with the new firmware for flex fuel I have my PWM wired directly into the PROcede so I'm not using a boost switch to activate meth. I can purge my meth system from the wheel at 3k rpm using the - volume control.

Sorry for the thread jack but how exactly did you bypass the boost switch and how do you trigger a purge via command center?
Is the Procede priming the meth pump or do you have another way of powering the pump?