M3 GTS info! (lightweight performance edition M3)

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Nope. DCT only project.

You didnt have to crush me like a grape - could have gave me a few days of hope first!

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by Jaypod

You didnt have to crush me like a grape - could have gave me a few days of hope first!

Sorry dude.

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Sorry dude.

Haha its all good - next thing your going to tell me is that it wont come in a vert!

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

I can see the argument from both sides. However, while aftermarket tuners do in fact provide some great products (not all are engineered as well as others), I would find it hard to believe that any aftermarket parts manufacturer can compete with the amount of engineering resources, REAL testing and research & development efforts put forth by a company like BMW.

Honestly, with the exception of a few, most of the parts we see from day to day on this forum are really BS; while they may provide a small performance advantage, I think they are mostly for show.

Think about the scoops that everyone is buying up (questionable performance there).

How about all the pulleys and ECU flashes. They may provide up front performance but what happens when you hurt something? They haven't been fully tested or performed real scientific analysis.

Even the SC kits. We have heard of engines blowing.

Essentially, BMW will offer a product that is meant to be used; bulletproof if you will. In the case of a malfunction, BMW is there to fix the problem.


What I am trying to say is that it pays to be careful. Even when buying a set of aftermarket wheels. Have you seen the thread on the 18lb flow-formed wheel? Simple engineering analysis will tell you that those wheels can be dangerous.

Very few aftermarket companies have anything to lose. Most of them will just close up shop and resurface under a different name (i.e. 360 forged). That is why they sometimes sell parts regardless of the truth behind them.

...reminds me. Have you seen that AFE intake? C'mon, gimme a freakin break. Performance my a$$. Anyone can tweak their Dyno to reflect inaccurate values.

-SZ

Exactly.

And people who actually think they can slap on some bolt-ons/coilovers and run with this car. Give me a freakin break.

In order run with this car around a track, you need something on the level of KonigsTiger's car. And that my friends is not cheap either.

People opened their mouth too early and doubted BMW M engineering without even hearing the full specs. All info on this car has still not been released, including the exact power output figures.

This car is WAY more sophisticated than your everyday modded M3 coupe.


Example post below of just what I am talking about. It is laughable to read posts like this. I thought BMW M owners were more informed, than to make generalized statements like this.

Originally Posted by rldzhao

After the initial 10 mins of rush, the car doesn't seem to have the sophistication of say, the GT3 RS. The color is breathtaking, and the interior typical of track-focused cars. However, the aerodynamic pieces of the car seems to be carelessly put together... The brakes, the adjustable suspension, and TI exhaust are all achievable even now by available aftermarket parts.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

my only concern is does this car have an oil dipstick or not?

Damn that's funny! Good one!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

These both seem like rebuttals to cases that have not been made in this thread (or if they were, I missed them in 30+ pages of responses). I think they tend to inflame more than foster constructive discussion.

The nature of the forums is for people to speculate, share, and discuss -- and we should always encourage this. At first announcement, I myself thought the M3 GTS was nothing but a stroker with weight reduction. But after more technical details came out, I realized it's much more than that, and something I'd really like to own. So you see how that works?

Anybody who is entrenched in their posistions and doesn't have an open mind to the alternatives and why they exist (such as "only aftermarket," or "only OEM") probably needs to rethink their positions and learn more about the alternatives, what they offer, and why they exist.

Great post, amen.

I'm still leaning in the direction, even with the increased discovery about the cars features, that you very well could compete with this car with good bolt ons for a lot less money (or at least get so close that it is a drivers race).

[duk]

i hope bmw brings it to the US for 95k (no AC and radio).

[FusionM]

I'm already sold on this car. I told my CA to keep me informed since he is going to Germany in Dec. 11. If the car is under $100K, I'm going to trade in my M3.

[rzm3]

05.11.2009
Press Release
Information from editor: *Information only; This model is not currently planned for the North American market.
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press...de__2248#photo

Weight Savings:
1. <1,500 kg (3,300 lb) unladen weight according to DIN standard
2. Titanium rear silencers
3. Extra-light center console and door linings
4. Omissions of rear seats, AC, and audio system
5. Special sound insulation

Engine:
1. 4.4L
2. >450 hp
3. Crankcase made of a special aluminium-silicon alloy and constructed in bedplate design
4. Individual throttle butterflies, anti-knock sensors with ion flow technology, and wet sump oil supply optimised for supreme driving dynamics

Powertrain:
1. Gearshift characteristics on M DKG Drivelogic tailored specifically to BMW M3 GTS

Suspension/brakes:
1. Rear axle subfram bolted directly to frame
2. Height/compression/rebound adjustable dampers
3. 6 piston front/4 piston rear fixed caliper brakes
4. Race-oriented set-up of DSC Dynamic Stability Control
5. 19-inch M light-alloy Competition rims

Aerodynamics:
1. Variable geometry front and rear air guidance units

To buy one, contact:
Dirk Arnold, Head of Product Communications BMW Automobiles
Phone: +59 89 382 12325, Fax +49 89 382 20626

Stefan Behr, Product Communications BMW Automobiles
Phone: +49 89 382 51376, Fax: +49 89 382 20626

[moog55]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Unfortunately, it's not.

Too many hurdles to overcome, combined with the extremely low production numbers, simply won't justify all the costs involved in bringing it to the United States.

Just spoke to a trusted contact at BMW North America, and it's just not gonna happen. (in it's current form)

A "Competition Package" style optional upgrade (with a few elements of this model) will be considered for the 2011 model year from what I'm told.

i'm not an "industry insider" but i would think it's still too premature to conclusively write off the possibility of the car coming to the US.

people thought less than 6 months ago that it was final that no CSL-type M3 would be made at all and look where we are now. 48 hours ago, the number of cars to be produced would be 25 per year, well that has now risen to a possible 99 cars per year. point is, i think BMW is gauging the interest to the initial press releases. i don't believe anything is set in stone.

if audi, merc and other competitors are truly putting BMW on the ropes as many think by the new rs5 and c63+, that might quickly change the minds of the bmw brass. they won't let competition damage their rep to that point.

so no matter what you may have heard from insiders and what the press releases and/or blogs are saying, i don't think anyone can say with certainty what will happen in terms of the US availability of the M3 GTS at this point in time.

[rzm3]

Honestly, if one really wants it in the US, one can simply order it as a off-road car I believe... but defeats the purpose of the GTS

At this point, BMW is simply gathering interest in their car. If there are enough buyers in the US and the numbers make sense, they will go through the hurdles and bring them here.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Let's assume you're right about the non-stroker bolt-ons. The M3 GTS will still have a TON more torque (I'm speaking from my own stroker experience -- the stroker is a torque beast).

But then let's assume you wanted to build one for yourself -- stroker and all. Let's also assume the estimated $98,000 USD was a correctly correlated US price. From my stroker++ experience, I don't think you'll ever build that car for anywhere near $10000 of that $98,000 price. In fact, if $98k really were a correctly correlated US price, that's one incredible bargain for the car.

Car + Stroker alone is $98k (or more). Then you can easily add another $15k for the rest of the modifications. And even then, I don't think you'll come anywhere close to the 342 pound weight reduction that BMW got out of this car. That car is seriously impressive IMO.

Sure torque is nice but this comes down to a more desirable feature for a daily driver as footie mentioned. Surely we can agree that the single most important metric for the cars performance is still power to weight ratio? Getting 450 hp from bolts ons and a small rpm bump will do very close to the same thing 450 hp with a sizeable bump in torque when driving most of the time above 5k rpm. My point never was that you could get an identical car for $98k USD but that you could get a nearly identical performer for much less.

Stripping weight is fairly easy as well. What you won't be able to obtain is the nicely finished interior with the custom weigh savings parts. Don't forget BMWs weight specs include the losses from audio and AC!

I still just can not concur with the adverb "seriously".

Look folks, especially for those that don't know me. I am a huge car fan and an even bigger M3 fan. I find myself genuinely defending BMW M and M3s way more often than criticizing them. In this case I'm simply leaning the other direction. Don't get me wrong. The car is very cool, full of some nice mods and will be substantially faster and more raw than the regular M3. It is just a bit underwhelming to me personally for the reasons I've listed on this thread and the other one.

[swamp2]

List of items identical to the existing M3 shown in bold. I hate it when marketing folks do this...

Originally Posted by rldzhao

05.11.2009
Press Release
Information from editor: *Information only; This model is not currently planned for the North American market.
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press...de__2248#photo

...

Engine:
1. 4.4L
2. >450 hp
3. Crankcase made of a special aluminium-silicon alloy and constructed in bedplate design
4. Individual throttle butterflies, anti-knock sensors with ion flow technology, and wet sump oil supply optimised for supreme driving dynamics

...

It seems it will have a modified lubrication system but both are still wet sump and designed for high constant lateral acceleration.

[graider]

anyone know how much the AC alone weight?

as for this car. if anything, it will boost sell of aftermarket part more which is all good.

[Trier Germany]

With anly luck?

The North American market should receive a competition package with alot of these goodies from the M3 GTS?

I would like to see alot of these parts be available for the E-90 Sedan.


Just my opinion

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

At this point, BMW is simply gathering interest in their car. If there are enough buyers in the US and the numbers make sense, they will go through the hurdles and bring them here.

Ummm.....there was a TON of potential CSL buyers here and BMW still did not bring that car here. The CSL would have flown off the showroom floors had it been sold in the US.

[BMW269]

Yes I think it is it. BMW said to produce all together only 99 M3 GTS in Inka Orange. If there is high demand they will produce more of them and even bring it to the States. It will be possible to get the car only by M GmbH and not by BMW Motorsport as it was said before, so there is a possiblility it will be produced more than 99 models and with new colors. But I think the normal 2011 M3 will get some of the features as the BBK, seats, Alcantara, rims and so.
If not imagine how many models there might be of the next M3 F30:
M3
M3 GT
M3 GTS (GT4)
M3 GTR (GT2)
M3 EVO
M3 CSL
M3 Edition
M3 Competition
(M3 Very Special Edition) LOL

[BMW269]

And I think it is the same about the M1 (1 series Coupé E82). If the demand is high enough the next 1 series will also get an M version, if not there will be no.
BMW is testing the demands of clients/fans: If "M1" (E82) and M3 GTS (E92) are sold BMW will continue making an "M1" (1 series), a radical M3 and maybe yet a real M1 (supercar), but if not BMW will never do anything of the kind. The future of BMW is in your hands.

[///FCB]

sorry guys, this is not 100%, but it looks like the car will NOT be coming to the US. A source confirmed that on another forum yesterday and he's pretty reliable

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by savage.ulm1

Please note: the image on the M3post homepage is not of the M3 GT4 Street, but a old CSL mockup we used simply for the homepage story.




savage.ulm1's original post:

Hello to everyone...I can't share the details at the moment,sorry. Just let me say, stay tuned in the period coming from 03 to 08 November. Something absolutely surpricing could be revealed. If what I was told will be true, it will be an incredible new. Beleive me, not a joke and pls accept the fact that I can't share too much just now..
Stay tuned. BMW could announce something really
If nothing will happen you will not loose anything. So why not just to stay tuned in that period? Who knows what is arriving??
I hope to be right..........at least for myself and my plans, beleive me.But I am sure most of you would be delighted too.
Anyway I promise to tell more details just before those dates.

Regards

110,000 euros? wow thats expensive. thats in the 160 k us dollars. for that money id get a ferrari for a few bucks more

[BMW269]

For all those that say the M3 GTS is overpriced just get an M3 Coupé 6MT without any options, and put Akrapovic Evolution, Brembo BBK, KW V3 Clubsport and stripp out the interiour and put Racaro Sportster or Pole-Position and get the roll-cage from the M3 GT4 by BMW Motorsport. I doubt many of you will do that.

[Jangobipbip]

Levi,

Do you know when the car be ordered?