Stick with upgraded rotors and pads, or do front BBK?

[JBird..]

Recently moved up to the Bay Area and have signed up for a few Speed SF events. My first one will be in November at Laguna Seca and the car has been prepped all around for the track other than the brakes rotors and pads. Track mods are RE-71RSs, Castrol SRF, stainless steel lines, coilovers, and Recaros.
I'm aiming for 4 or 5 track days this year, and while this certainly won't be my first track experience (10+ in other cars), it will be my first in my M3.

I need to replace the stock rotors now anyways, and the cost for all the rotors & PFC 08 pads is ~$1,600. Do y'all think its worth it to spend about a grand more for upgraded front rotors (Girodisc and keep rears stock), or start with the stock rotor setup all around for a year and then move into a BBK as I add more track days?

Curious to hear how people have made this progression. Many thanks y'all.

[crowtrobot]

If you intend on keeping the car and continuing to track it, my suggestion would be to just go straight for the BBK.

I found that stock rotors/PFC08s/upgraded lines would be overheated in extended sessions, usually around the 20min mark. The ST60 kit up front solved this issue. (I imagine an ST40 kit would also be adequate, but these were impossible to buy at the time, and I got a good deal on the ST60s.) Pad changes are way easier as well, so that's an added benefit.

[amg6975]

Girodisc front rotors, PFC pads, and brass caliper bushings will be more than adequate until you are really, really fast and running slicks or something.

[Z K]

I run my M3 on tracks in the SF bay area like you. Usually I'm running with Speed SF, OnGrid and Lightspeed.

My stock brakes served me for 13+ years of track days. All you need is track brake pads and brake fluid. You'll be perfectly fine with stock brake calipers and rotors. Towards the end of a 20 min session, you'll get some brake fade. But 200tw tires usually give out before 20 min so you won't be lapping at full pace towards the end of a session anyway.

[JBird..]

Rotors and pads it is for year 1 then! I'll report back after Laguna and let y'all know how it goes.

[bigjae1976]

Long-term a 4 wheel BBK will significantly lower running costs.

Yes, the stock brakes can handle track days but they will eat up consumables. The worst part is running out of brakes and your weekend ending early - that wastes a lot of $$$.

I'll give you a real life example. 2011 M3 stock brakes at Road America. Buddy came up so it was running 8 sessions a day at Road America. First day and a half, smoked a set of pagid yellows. Threw on some Hawk DTC70s - finished the second day but barely. Overnighted a 3rd set of cool carbons (no idea which ones) - got 2 sessions out of the Hawks and then the cool carbons barely lasted to the end of the 3rd day.

3 sets of pads in essentially two weekends. I don't consider that reliable. And changing out hot brake pads at a hot track day gets old...really fast.

[powerbait]

PFC rotors (which are NLA), PFC 08 pads, and caliper bushing have served me very well ... and of course fresh high temp fluid. If I was to do it over again today, I'd go girodisc rotors with everything else the same. I have zero complaints in the braking department, I get just as big a grin stepping on the brake as I do the throttle. I'm always impressed after I haven't driven the e92 in a bit and take it out. Never experience any fade on track/HPDE.

[JBird..]

Reporting back on this. I went with PFC 11 F and PFC 08 R pads and have done two track days at Laguna Seca. The brakes performed wonderfully throughout every session with no fade (also running RE71RS, stainless line, and Motul). I was pushing hard too, for a relatively stock car I was able to run in the 1:40s. Before putting the pads on I did swap the rotors in all corners which also could have helped.

All in all though, this was definitely the right move for someone who plans on running 6 track days over the next year. Thank you all for your input!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by JBird..

Reporting back on this. I went with PFC 11 F and PFC 08 R pads and have done two track days at Laguna Seca. The brakes performed wonderfully throughout every session with no fade (also running RE71RS, stainless line, and Motul). I was pushing hard too, for a relatively stock car I was able to run in the 1:40s. Before putting the pads on I did swap the rotors in all corners which also could have helped.

All in all though, this was definitely the right move for someone who plans on running 6 track days over the next year. Thank you all for your input!

PFC 11/08 is a great stock brake track pad setup. I’d recommend upgrading to Girodiscs next year before considering a full brake kit. As for brake kits, I’d stay away from ST because they’ve been having major stocking issues of consumables. I’d check with Girodisc and Paragon to see if they offer ST rotor ring options. Alcon and Essex/AP Racing kits are your best options for a dedicated track brake kits.

[Thumbie]

Nice! I think that setup will be adequate for a while.

I also ran Laguna very recently. But wasn't pushing as hard as you (I was, I'm just way slower lol). Stock rotors, stainless lines, SRF fluid, and Ferrodo 2500 pads. Had zero issues with pads fading.

However after 3 full days, the pads are done. Also noticed my rotors are about done lol. I think I'm going Gyrodisc. And DTC 60 pads since my friend is giving me a set, since he was given a BBK. Or just a set of stockers again. Ok I'll stop talking now.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Long-term a 4 wheel BBK will significantly lower running costs.

Yes, the stock brakes can handle track days but they will eat up consumables. The worst part is running out of brakes and your weekend ending early - that wastes a lot of $$$.

I'll give you a real life example. 2011 M3 stock brakes at Road America. Buddy came up so it was running 8 sessions a day at Road America. First day and a half, smoked a set of pagid yellows. Threw on some Hawk DTC70s - finished the second day but barely. Overnighted a 3rd set of cool carbons (no idea which ones) - got 2 sessions out of the Hawks and then the cool carbons barely lasted to the end of the 3rd day.

3 sets of pads in essentially two weekends. I don't consider that reliable. And changing out hot brake pads at a hot track day gets old...really fast.

I think that's because he was running a lot of grip or else was just running the wrong pads. Cool carbon is not a track pad, DTC pads are ok for track but wear fast. No experience with Pagid. My front pads on stock calipers usually last 4 track days. Rear pads go 50% longer. This is during the summer when its over 100 degrees every day.

I've never had a mid track day pad change but then I never run back to back track days.

[Erickuokwa]

Great info here guys! 👍

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

PFC 11/08 is a great stock brake track pad setup. I’d recommend upgrading to Girodiscs next year before considering a full brake kit. As for brake kits, I’d stay away from ST because they’ve been having major stocking issues of consumables. I’d check with Girodisc and Paragon to see if they offer ST rotor ring options. Alcon and Essex/AP Racing kits are your best options for a dedicated track brake kits.

Slightly derailing the thread, but StopTech can still make sense in certain scenarios. List price ST60/40 kits against Alcon and AP? Definitely not.

As for consumables, there have been issues the last few years and the shift to the factory in Mexico hasn't helped things yet. However, Girodisc makes an excellent 380x35 rotor ring (and hardware) for the ST60. I highly recommend them and when backordered, it's only a couple of weeks instead of months.

Don't even bother with the regular StopTech rotors on track because there is a small issue with their kits that isn't particularly well-known. The hardware StopTech provides is for "street" use which can cause binding when the rotors get very hot. The result is a severe vibration under braking that goes away once the rotor and hardware cool off.

If you already have new StopTech rotors in a kit, get the rotor hardware from Girodisc or Paragon (ordered their hardware, looks nice as well). That's the only scenario where it makes sense sticking with a StopTech rotor. Looking for a rotor ring replacement? Go with Girodisc or Paragon.

As for other StopTech consumables, buy them before you need them. I have a spare set of ST60 calipers because ordering two calipers was slightly quicker than getting a piston rebuild kit.

Part numbers for ST60 consumables -
Rotor: Girodisc GD380.35.52
Hardware: Girodisc HWK-10-L, Paragon D-Bobbin (Long)

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Slightly derailing the thread, but StopTech can still make sense in certain scenarios. List price ST60/40 kits against Alcon and AP? Definitely not.

As for consumables, there have been issues the last few years and the shift to the factory in Mexico hasn't helped things yet. However, Girodisc makes an excellent 380x32 rotor ring (and hardware) for the ST60. I highly recommend them and when backordered, it's only a couple of weeks instead of months.

Don't even bother with the regular StopTech rotors on track because there is a small issue with their kits that isn't particularly well-known. The hardware StopTech provides is for "street" use which can cause binding when the rotors get very hot. The result is a severe vibration under braking that goes away once the rotor and hardware cool off.

If you already have new StopTech rotors in a kit, get the rotor hardware from Girodisc or Paragon (ordered their hardware, looks nice as well). That's the only scenario where it makes sense sticking with a StopTech rotor. Looking for a rotor ring replacement? Go with Girodisc or Paragon.

As for other StopTech consumables, buy them before you need them. I have a spare set of ST60 calipers because ordering two calipers was slightly quicker than getting a piston rebuild kit.

Yeah, I had heard from plenty of people that were caught out by the supply chain issues. I did suggest to look for Girodisc if you’re a ST user. Suggestion to stay away was based on consumable issues, not performance. ST Trophy kits are considerably more expensive these days so the cost to step up to Alcon or AP kits isn’t as painful as it used to be.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Slightly derailing the thread, but StopTech can still make sense in certain scenarios. List price ST60/40 kits against Alcon and AP? Definitely not.

As for consumables, there have been issues the last few years and the shift to the factory in Mexico hasn't helped things yet. However, Girodisc makes an excellent 380x32 rotor ring (and hardware) for the ST60. I highly recommend them and when backordered, it's only a couple of weeks instead of months.

Don't even bother with the regular StopTech rotors on track because there is a small issue with their kits that isn't particularly well-known. The hardware StopTech provides is for "street" use which can cause binding when the rotors get very hot. The result is a severe vibration under braking that goes away once the rotor and hardware cool off.

If you already have new StopTech rotors in a kit, get the rotor hardware from Girodisc or Paragon (ordered their hardware, looks nice as well). That's the only scenario where it makes sense sticking with a StopTech rotor. Looking for a rotor ring replacement? Go with Girodisc or Paragon.

As for other StopTech consumables, buy them before you need them. I have a spare set of ST60 calipers because ordering two calipers was slightly quicker than getting a piston rebuild kit.

I’d recommend the 355/ST40 front for a Stoptech. But Stoptech is a hot mess right now and I’ve always said consumables are a huge consideration with a BBK. And the front rotors are 380x35 or 355x35.

On my E46, the pads and friction rings are the same front and rear. I can and have rotated the rings front to back. Too bad the E9X isn’t like that.

I’ve long recommended Stoptech, not sure I’d still go that direction given that the products are essentially frozen in time. I don’t think Centric is doing anything other than just slapping Stoptech on their current products.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I’d recommend the 355/ST40 front for a Stoptech. But Stoptech is a hot mess right now and I’ve always said consumables are a huge consideration with a BBK. And the front rotors are 380x35 or 355x35.
..
I’ve long recommended Stoptech, not sure I’d still go that direction given that the products are essentially frozen in time. I don’t think Centric is doing anything other than just slapping Stoptech on their current products.

Corrected the post to 380x35 and added part numbers. The calipers certainly look dated by the currently Alcon or AP kits, however it's still a solid design.

If you're paying list price for a StopTech kit or getting the Trophy kit at all, that certainly doesn't make sense financially in my mind. I still haven't had the need to upgrade the stock rear caliper so perhaps I'm just cheap in that respect.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Corrected the post to 380x35 and added part numbers. The calipers certainly look dated by the currently Alcon or AP kits, however it's still a solid design.

If you're paying list price for a StopTech kit or getting the Trophy kit at all, that certainly doesn't make sense financially in my mind. I still haven't had the need to upgrade the stock rear caliper so perhaps I'm just cheap in that respect.

True. A ST BBK used be over $1000 less than a PF, Brembo, or AP BBK a couple of years ago. Again, I think Centric is running the brand into the ground.