BMW killing M Brand with M Performance Autos?

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by Tony B

There are lot people here who clearly do not understand the concept of brand value, how long it takes to achieve a high value brand, and how quickly you can destroy it when you try to over exploit the investment.

The people from Pontiac & Oldsmobile understand. GM had so many car types competing with each other that the public soon lost track of how to tell the difference. Both Pontiac & Oldsmobile ended up looking about the same thus diluting any distinction they could claim. End result: both gone.
To avoid this likelihood, the next M3 series has to be able to separate itself decisively, not only from competing manufacturers, but from a pack of their own pretending M3 look-a-likes. That's going to be hard to do. In the past, that was achieved by engineering a bigger, more powerful engine. Nowadays, given the constraints of government regulations, that's not possible.
More so than in the past, the next generation of M3s is going to be fathered by EPA regulations not by engineering. But the problem is that the goal of EPA regulations conflicts directly with the goal of the M3. EPA regulations are aimed at making cars perform the same way whereas the goal of the M3 is to separate itself from the pack. It will be interesting to see if the M3 people can do it and for how long.

[BMRLVR]

I think everyone needs to worry less about BMW diluting the brand and about how it looks to other people and they need to worry more about the driving experience.

Real M cars always have and (i hope) always will drive better than the non M models. Shit you can order a 911 with a GT3 aerokit and GT3 wheels but you don't hear about porsche diluting the GT3/GT3RS. As long as M keeps making good M cars, don't worry about it. If BMW makes bigger profits from their M performance cars and parts, that will be more money to use to develop even better M cars in the future.

[bmwforme]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yes and no.

Audi doesn't badge "S-line A4" or, worse, "S A4"

I'm not a big M guy and I'm not even a BMW guy. Prior to my M3 I had an S4 and before that an s-line a4 (didn't even realize that), an A4, an Allroad, and an A6.

And then I bought an M3 ED sight unseen ... Never even test drove it or any BMW.

My practical friends would say,"what kind of BMW is this??? An M3? Never heard of that ... Is it like a 335 or something?"

I admit it. I like the distinction. Makes me feel like this ridiculously expensive over-powered DD is worth it.

Now M335 vs M3? Sounds like the M335 is better. More numbers.

In short BMW has taken something from me and I'm not getting anything in return. I have to admit that it'll make me rethink the brand.

Already has.

YES they do, you'll catch a bunch of A4's "S Line" that will have the S badge on the front grill, not sure about the sides... another diluted brand (S)..

[SirSpeedy]

Gruss, your desire for exclusivity is not aligned with BMW's priority to sell vehicles for profit.

[bnombe]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

I think everyone needs to worry less about BMW diluting the brand and about how it looks to other people and they need to worry more about the driving experience.

Real M cars always have and (i hope) always will drive better than the non M models. Shit you can order a 911 with a GT3 aerokit and GT3 wheels but you don't hear about porsche diluting the GT3/GT3RS. As long as M keeps making good M cars, don't worry about it. If BMW makes bigger profits from their M performance cars and parts, that will be more money to use to develop even better M cars in the future.

+1

Well said!!

[Brucewonder]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

I think everyone needs to worry less about BMW diluting the brand and about how it looks to other people and they need to worry more about the driving experience.

Real M cars always have and (i hope) always will drive better than the non M models. Shit you can order a 911 with a GT3 aerokit and GT3 wheels but you don't hear about porsche diluting the GT3/GT3RS. As long as M keeps making good M cars, don't worry about it. If BMW makes bigger profits from their M performance cars and parts, that will be more money to use to develop even better M cars in the future.

yea but Porsche doesn't sell/badge it as such. Myabe prosche should stamp it as GT Performance

nothing wrong with buying aero kits to make it look like a GT3...all the non-M guys are doing it

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Brucewonder

yea but Porsche doesn't sell/badge it as such. Myabe prosche should stamp it as GT Performance

nothing wrong with buying aero kits to make it look like a GT3...all the non-M guys are doing it

The M badging is no problem for me....... I think a real enthusiast cares more about performance than if an someone else with a M335 or 335i Msport thinks he has the same car as you.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by Tony B

Agreed.

There are lot people here who clearly do not understand the concept of brand value, how long it takes to achieve a high value brand, and how quickly you can destroy it when you try to over exploit the investment.

No, I understand, and better than 90% as I built a brand in my industry that went from nothing to something special.

But, every time I post anything negative at all about BMW anywhere in the forums, I get temporarily banned, warned or labeled a troll by Jason.

So despite this supposedly being a free speech forum, I'm only allowed to say, nice, positive things about BMW. Waiting for this post to disappear and get banned again......

Cheers,
e46e92

[Tony B]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

. Waiting for this post to disappear and get banned again......

Cheers,
e46e92

Which post....?

;-)

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by Tony B

Which post....?

;-)

Quite frankly, any post of mine

Cheers,
e46e92

[SCOTT26]

To sum up the The BMW M Performance brand?

I would say it can do the things that the M cars will not touch, such as diesel , sporthatch and All Wheel drive. M Performance automobiles is if you will the compromise for the customer who would like a performance diesel and all wheel drive. BMW M. Will only offer X-Drive in the X5,X6 and forthcoming X4 models.
There is no doubting the impact the M Performance cars have had on the European market , the M550d is in huge demand and by running a current M550d touring against my M5 Touring is proving to be a very different comparison.
And the impact the M135i has had on the press has also established a healthy order list thanks to the efforts in making a car that embodies the core beliefs of M but in a non-M choice of a hatch.

More M Performance cars are on the way especially for the 3er , Z4 and the 6er.

BMW M Automobiles have their own strict philosophy and what is interesting about the two brands or brand within a brand is that they do not overlap and compete with each other, there is such a noticeable difference between an M Performance automobile and a BMW M automobile in many ways that keep them distinctive for the customer. BMW M Performance is the compromise BMW M automobiles choose not to give to their customers.

BMW M Performance accessories is when enough is enough regarding aftermarket equipment that voids the warranty of the car.
BMW M Performance accessories aims to offer the customer an expansive line of accessories for their car without permanent damage or void of warranty with many aftermarket suppliers.

[Siciliano611]

It can do all the things M cars would not TOUCH...like hmmm..TURBOS?

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

To sum up the The BMW M Performance brand?

I would say it can do the things that the M cars will not touch, such as diesel , sporthatch and All Wheel drive. M Performance automobiles is if you will the compromise for the customer who would like a performance diesel and all wheel drive. BMW M. Will only offer X-Drive in the X5,X6 and forthcoming X4 models.
There is no doubting the impact the M Performance cars have had on the European market , the M550d is in huge demand and by running a current M550d touring against my M5 Touring is proving to be a very different comparison.
And the impact the M135i has had on the press has also established a healthy order list thanks to the efforts in making a car that embodies the core beliefs of M but in a non-M choice of a hatch.

More M Performance cars are on the way especially for the 3er , Z4 and the 6er.

BMW M Automobiles have their own strict philosophy and what is interesting about the two brands or brand within a brand is that they do not overlap and compete with each other, there is such a noticeable difference between an M Performance automobile and a BMW M automobile in many ways that keep them distinctive for the customer. BMW M Performance is the compromise BMW M automobiles choose not to give to their customers.

BMW M Performance accessories is when enough is enough regarding aftermarket equipment that voids the warranty of the car.
BMW M Performance accessories aims to offer the customer an expansive line of accessories for their car without permanent damage or void of warranty with many aftermarket suppliers.

Thanks for info. I've been reading this board for a while and your responses are always interesting.

It does not really bother me BMW are trying to maximize profits by replacing the iS moniker with an M badge....BUT do we have any news on whether the F82 will be called an M3 or an M4? I find it hard to believe that BMW would chuck away the brand recognition M3s. Even by people with a very limited knowledge of cars know what an M3 is and, while others may have a different opinion, I would much prefer to keep that name for the F82.

[drchuck72]

Originally Posted by speedfan

You're so right. BMW's "IS" badge is worthless.


I believe that the MB manufacture never puts AMG accessories on NON-AMG car. The dealers do. Here's Vietnam & asia, we have C300AMG. it's NOT tuned by AMG at all. It's dressed up by the dealer. There was a thread about this here once.

I don't know that it is the dealer that 'dresses' up the cars with AMG badges. I see a lot of three digit MBs (ie C350, S550 etc) with AMG badges on the decklids. It's pretty common here in Canada.

[manuelf]

Originally Posted by Brucewonder

yea but Porsche doesn't sell/badge it as such. Myabe prosche should stamp it as GT Performance

nothing wrong with buying aero kits to make it look like a GT3...all the non-M guys are doing it

So - whats about the 911 gts? Porsche is reusing its gt Brand for something which is obviously no gt3 or gt2 Level but a tuned regular 911. So people should calm down a bit imho with all the deluting nonsense...

[WRXXX]

Notice how MB is coming out with the Black Series? They are smart in a way that they can whore out the AMG badge on anything but reserve BS for the ultimate performance.

BMW should perhaps start a few new letters to emphasize ultimate performance. What about M3-RS (Red Series)? Or start whipping out the GTS moniker to every M model. Now everyone is happy

For the ultimate BMW, it could be M3-RS-GTS! Cool, ya?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

To sum up the The BMW M Performance brand? I would say it can do the things that the M cars will not touch ...

Hmmm, that sounds like a long way of saying, "we can convert customers into higher margin product by selling them a piece of our highest margin product."

I'm sure you can.

However, the billion Euro question is will you cannibalize and/or lose sales of your premium highest margin brand doing that?

You've probably lost me unless ... maybe your i8 will keep me ... waaaaiiitttt a minute ....

The "i" is a new premium brand!