Drag Time !!!

[Cl0ud7]

Originally Posted by Moo

Randy Pobst appears to be the only "pro" reviewer that had such overwhelming negativity towards the 1M, in contrast with the majority of other reviewers who find the car to be in the same league/performance of the E9x M3.

Just curious, shift@red and Nine - have you driven the 1M?

If so, what were your personal likes and dislikes?

Maybe the difference in review is from serious track use vs street fun factor??

[Singletrack]

Nee san!

Gawdzilla!

I'd definitely like to own one some day.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by HREM3

Ugh, why is the GTR so freggin fast?

The main reason is that Nissan is a big liar.

Everyone agrees that the GT-R is pretty substantially under-rated. I have not kept track carefully since the initial launch of the car but in that year most folks in the know agree that the car is probably putting out much closer to 530 hp opposed to the spec. of 480. The cars advanced ATTESA-ETS (traction control), AWD system and launch control contribute as well.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by swamp2

The main reason is that Nissan is a big liar.

Everyone agrees that the GT-R is pretty substantially under-rated. I have not kept track carefully since the initial launch of the car but in that year most folks in the know agree that the car is probably putting out much closer to 530 hp opposed to the spec. of 480. The cars advanced ATTESA-ETS (traction control), AWD system and launch control contribute as well.

Just doing a quick and dirty with the Motor Trend numbers, the new GT-R continues the under rating trend, showing around 580 HP on a 530 rating.

Thus, Nissan and BMW continue the skullduggery, along with the new mercedes "63" twin turbo cars. Works for me, actually, and reminds me of similar skullduggery with U.S. musclecars of the late '60s.

Bruce

[erio]

Originally Posted by swamp2

The main reason is that Nissan is a big liar.

Everyone agrees that the GT-R is pretty substantially under-rated. I have not kept track carefully since the initial launch of the car but in that year most folks in the know agree that the car is probably putting out much closer to 530 hp opposed to the spec. of 480. The cars advanced ATTESA-ETS (traction control), AWD system and launch control contribute as well.

Insideline test results suggest that Nissan's claims are accurate. They used a Mustang AWD dyno. 91 octane was used in second test. See below:

2009 GTR: http://www.insideline.com/nissan/gt-...-godzilla.html

2012 GTR: http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ssan-gt-r.html

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by erio

Insideline test results suggest that Nissan's claims are accurate. They used a Mustang AWD dyno. 91 octane was used in second test. See below:

2009 GTR: http://www.insideline.com/nissan/gt-...-godzilla.html

2012 GTR: http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ssan-gt-r.html

Interesting and informative.

Thanks.

An issue remains, however, as the GT-R does better on a drag strip than it ought to, assuming either 480 HP or the 530 HP 2012 model. There just may be something to the conjecture re the car making more power under way than when stationary and bolted to a dyno.

Bruce

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Interesting and informative.

Thanks.

An issue remains, however, as the GT-R does better on a drag strip than it ought to, assuming either 480 HP or the 530 HP 2012 model. There just may be something to the conjecture re the car making more power under way than when stationary and bolted to a dyno.

Bruce

In Top Gear, they were talking about how the car can launch itself off the line. This can be seen in many comparison videos. It just starts to go full-on with no drama, no wheels spin nothing.. I think the key is, it is putting its power down very effectively.

Also, the peak HP is as important as it is, the HP/torque curve is also important, right?

Edit: Here is the related video:

[erio]

Originally Posted by erhanh

In Top Gear, they were talking about how the car can launch itself off the line. This can be seen in many comparison videos. It just starts to go full-on with no drama, no wheels spin nothing.. I think the key is, it is putting its power down very effectively.

Also, the peak HP is as important as it is, the HP/torque curve is also important, right?

+1. I totally agree. It's a combination of Nissan's amazing ATTESA-E-TS AWD system and launching at the ideal hp/tq.

Also, in the above video I don't think he realizes that it launches more precisely and easier in auto mode, esp. for those not very familiar with the car.

[swamp2]

No advanced AWD system and LC will solely account for the differences between observed performance and stated hp numbers. Sure the car launches great, that only buys you some advantage in a drag race.

GT-R: 530 hp (stated), 3829 lb (curb), 7.2 lb/hp
Ferrari 458: 562 hp, 3325 lb (curb), 5.9 lb/hp

That is well over 20% power to weight advantage. AWD and traction control can not make up that advantage in the 1/4 mile.

[erio]

Originally Posted by swamp2

No advanced AWD system and LC will solely account for the differences between observed performance and stated hp numbers. Sure the car launches great, that only buys you some advantage in a drag race.

I believe it can. The above dyno results provide objective data from a reliable source.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by erio

I believe it can. The above dyno results provide objective data from a reliable source.

Drivetrain loss is a big factor here. You simply can not calculate engine crank power without both accurate dyno results and an accurate loss figure. What is the loss of the very complex, but also probably pretty efficient AWD system? 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%. We actually have NO idea. You did note that different dynos roller vs. hub (in the 2009 test) produced a 40 hp difference. I doubt tires in 2nd or 3rd gear can account for a 40 hp difference, 20 maybe not 40. The latter test even has a statement that you can't compare different dynos. That certainly begs this question, which is correct.

[erio]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Drivetrain loss is a big factor here. You simply can not calculate engine crank power without both accurate dyno results and an accurate loss figure. What is the loss of the very complex, but also probably pretty efficient AWD system? 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%. We actually have NO idea. You did note that different dynos roller vs. hub (in the 2009 test) produced a 40 hp difference. I doubt tires in 2nd or 3rd gear can account for a 40 hp difference, 20 maybe not 40. The latter test even has a statement that you can't compare different dynos. That certainly begs this question, which is correct.

I think the loss is more dynamic in nature. Maybe this will help:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...t/viewall.html

This is data from Motortrend where they use the Hyper Power dyno that helps calculate drivetrain loss. It also shows that there may be a little more torque than claimed but that's not enough to explain it's performance.

You also have to take into account the fact that it can fly if launched properly

[SCCAForums.com]

Originally Posted by swamp2

No advanced AWD system and LC will solely account for the differences between observed performance and stated hp numbers. Sure the car launches great, that only buys you some advantage in a drag race.

GT-R: 530 hp (stated), 3829 lb (curb), 7.2 lb/hp
Ferrari 458: 562 hp, 3325 lb (curb), 5.9 lb/hp

That is well over 20% power to weight advantage. AWD and traction control can not make up that advantage in the 1/4 mile.

Swamp, you are forgetting bout gearing too... a very important factor in acceleration, especially from a stand still.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com

Swamp, you are forgetting bout gearing too... a very important factor in acceleration, especially from a stand still.

Gearing can have a major effect on ET, but tends to not be too important a factor in terms of trap speed.

The fact is that the GT-R performs better than its specs in terms of the quarter mile trap speed. With a given that the observed dyno numbers referred to earlier may be accurate, that makes me believe that the Nissan is handicapped when strapped to a stationary dyno, and makes more power out on the road or track.

Bruce

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Gearing can have a major effect on ET, but tends to not be too important a factor in terms of trap speed.

The fact is that the GT-R performs better than its specs in terms of the quarter mile trap speed. With a given that the observed dyno numbers referred to earlier may be accurate, that makes me believe that the Nissan is handicapped when strapped to a stationary dyno, and makes more power out on the road or track.

Bruce

Could it be a cooling issue when it is on the dyno?

[NFAM3]

The GTR is a absolute monster. I actually wanted the GTR before I got the M3 but b/c of the earthquake or tsunami, I forget what it was, it was impossible to get one at the time. Plus, its more expensive than then M3.

As far as the LFA goes, I wouldn't call it a LF-AIL. The car is gorgeous and it moves. NOW, its definitely overpriced!!!

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by erhanh

Could it be a cooling issue when it is on the dyno?

Could be, but I for one just don't know.