Porsche GT3

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

So much GT3 leg-humping. Maybe it's the name, or perhaps the lack of availability that has so many people blushing. The car is hot. No question. But again, the 911 Turbo will dismantle the GT3. The Turbo is faster, AWD, and far superior as a day-to-day car.

No, it's just not, I'm assuming you don't get to the track very much. There's a PCA national instructor over at rennlist who's home track is VIR, probably the biggest HP track in the country, who owned both a 996 turbo and a 996 GT3. He was one full second a lap faster in the GT3, same tires-no mods on either. I will quote his words on the comparison between the two.

"If it makes you feel any better, I went from a GT3 to a Turbo and then back to a GT3 (and a 1/2 dozen other stops sprinkled in the middle). The Turbo was an amazing car, but it was such the epitome of a "GT" car. And that's GT as in "Grand Touring" luxobarge, not "GT" as in race bred. One is homologated from the fluffy mattress factory for doctors to drive to the hospital in style and comfort and the other is homologated from a race car to provide an experience that only a select few can ever begin to learn what makes a GT3 special."-LVDell

[48Laws]

Of course I don't get to a track often because my profession is NOT a race car driver. And i bet the most avid person on this site who tracks doesnt get to the track that often either That said, that doesn't mean one man's opinion about his experience with the aforementioned vehicles is a comprehensive view that all comparos would agree too. As if the GT3 is off limits to doctors to commute with. Lol. Talking about the "track" is becoming so cliche' on forums these days anyway. Every last GT3 I've seen has been at the mall or in traffic.

[attila]

Originally Posted by TX335

Can you comment a little more on the differences between driving the M3 and GT3 on the track? I've heard that driving a GT3 (or any 911) is a little more difficult at the limits. Would you say that's true?

First of, I am not a professional driver by any means. Never raced, but love driving on a track. So things can be very different for a better driver.
I tracked the M3 for two years ( about 18 track days) this is my second year with the RS but unfortunately, due to work this year, i did only 3 track days so far.
The RS is unquestionably faster than the M3. On the other hand you are not out there to "win". Both cars are predictable but in a different way. (I run both of them on BFG-R1 tires.) The M3 tends to have more understeer on turn in even up to the apex sometimes (if you carry to much speed in) then can be easily corrected by throttle. So much so, that power oversteer is the main threat upon exit. This oversteer is progressive and relatively easy to capture. (depending on tires, with the BFG-R1 you have to be way more careful than on OEM) Upon exit the M3 has some difficulty to put all the power down. The power delivery of the M3 is more linear than the RS and easier to modulate. The RS tends to start the turn in with less but still present understeer which is very easy to address. Minimal lift off and you are right on your target slip angle! Actually this is one of the most lovable feature of the RS. Then after you corrected the understeer you can get back safely on the throttle way earlier than in the M3. I start to put down my right foot even before the apex. Throttle acts like a glue on the rear. (well within certain limits of course) One issue, the regular GT3 and RS as well tends to have a really weak LSD way worse than the M3 so sometimes that's the limitation to put down the power. (also gives you lots of ass wiggling under breaking)
(this, the LSD and the weak rear toe links need to be corrected on the GT3's)
Both car fun on the track. Initially I felt more exhausted after driving the RS than the M3, but now it's not so bad. For drifting I use my wife MX-5 in the rain. No people out, thin tires, OK LSD, you can drift at low speed, and not wreck an expensive car. Drifting is fun, I use my heatcycled tires for drifting before I got new ones. Well I should say try. Getting better but still 1 in every 3-4 drift I end up in the wrong direction, so I get black flagged.
Lots of people wrote quite a bit on these cars how they drive etc. Bottom line is both can be fun, and both needs some mods to be track ready.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Of course I don't get to a track often because my profession is NOT a race car driver. And i bet the most avid person on this site who tracks doesnt get to the track that often either That said, that doesn't mean one man's opinion about his experience with the aforementioned vehicles is a comprehensive view that all comparos would agree too. As if the GT3 is off limits to doctors to commute with. Lol. Talking about the "track" is becoming so cliche' on forums these days anyway. Every last GT3 I've seen has been at the mall or in traffic.

I don't know if I should even respond to this one lol. But that one mans experience is extremely qualified, having owned both, a professional racing career and now as an instructor, as well as that opinion being backed by anyone who knows wtf they're talking about. And I personally know some M3 guys on this board that get to the track A LOT. Kaiv and OC3 are two examples.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by attila

First of, I am not a professional driver by any means. Never raced, but love driving on a track. So things can be very different for a better driver.
I tracked the M3 for two years ( about 18 track days) this is my second year with the RS but unfortunately, due to work this year, i did only 3 track days so far.
The RS is unquestionably faster than the M3. On the other hand you are not out there to "win". Both cars are predictable but in a different way. (I run both of them on BFG-R1 tires.) The M3 tends to have more understeer on turn in even up to the apex sometimes (if you carry to much speed in) then can be easily corrected by throttle. So much so, that power oversteer is the main threat upon exit. This oversteer is progressive and relatively easy to capture. (depending on tires, with the BFG-R1 you have to be way more careful than on OEM) Upon exit the M3 has some difficulty to put all the power down. The power delivery of the M3 is more linear than the RS and easier to modulate. The RS tends to start the turn in with less but still present understeer which is very easy to address. Minimal lift off and you are right on your target slip angle! Actually this is one of the most lovable feature of the RS. Then after you corrected the understeer you can get back safely on the throttle way earlier than in the M3. I start to put down my right foot even before the apex. Throttle acts like a glue on the rear. (well within certain limits of course) One issue, the regular GT3 and RS as well tends to have a really weak LSD way worse than the M3 so sometimes that's the limitation to put down the power. (also gives you lots of ass wiggling under breaking)
(this, the LSD and the weak rear toe links need to be corrected on the GT3's)
Both car fun on the track. Initially I felt more exhausted after driving the RS than the M3, but now it's not so bad. For drifting I use my wife MX-5 in the rain. No people out, thin tires, OK LSD, you can drift at low speed, and not wreck an expensive car. Drifting is fun, I use my heatcycled tires for drifting before I got new ones. Well I should say try. Getting better but still 1 in every 3-4 drift I end up in the wrong direction, so I get black flagged.
Lots of people wrote quite a bit on these cars how they drive etc. Bottom line is both can be fun, and both needs some mods to be track ready.

Absolutely, LSD's on GT3's need to be treated as a wear item. When the ass starts to wiggle under braking and you do the "diff test" and you don't feel much resistance it's time to call guard. Letting off the throttle can rotate the car hugely, and when throttle is applied it feels like the car is rotating on the axis of the two rear tires. I LOVE hearing/talking to GT3 owners such as yourself, it needs to be experienced to understand.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Sauce

I don't know if I should even respond to this one lol. But that one mans experience is extremely qualified, having owned both, a professional racing career and now as an instructor, as well as that opinion being backed by anyone who knows wtf they're talking about. And I personally know some M3 guys on this board that get to the track A LOT. Kaiv and OC3 are two examples.

Yet you can get another qualified person's opinion about the same vehicles and get a totally different perspective. For instance, the two members in this thread who disagreed about how easily the M3 and GT3 can be thrown around a track. There ya go...

Wow, two whole examples of tracking by how many M3 owners of this massed produced car??? Look, talking about the track sounds cool and all but, the majority of M3 owners are too anal to even attempt to challenge their warranty let alone risk wrecking their sh!t on a track, so spare me the racing dramatics.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Yet you can get another qualified person's opinion about the same vehicles and get a totally different perspective. For instance, the two members in this thread who disagreed about how easily the M3 and GT3 can be thrown around a track. There ya go...

Wow, two whole examples of tracking by how many M3 owners of this massed produced car??? Look, talking about the track sounds cool and all but, the majority of M3 owners are too anal to even attempt to challenge their warranty let alone risk wrecking their sh!t on a track, so spare me the racing dramatics.

I'm not sure what your even arguing about here. An M3 IS an easier car to drive on a track, it is NOT better. Honestly I think I can confidently say that as a statement and not an opinion.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Sauce

I'm not sure what your even arguing about here. An M3 IS an easier car to drive on a track, it is NOT better. Honestly I think I can confidently say that as a statement and not an opinion.

Better is subjective. Some people respond to a rear-engine vehicle in ways others don't. Some to front-engine vehicles others don't. Your point is moot.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Sauce

I'm sorry but this is so wrong it's ridiculous lol. A lot of 996's are slow as sh*t at DE's because they are so so difficult to drive. On the street letting off in that car is no lie like a second turn in, on the track it is a spin...

So you are partially agreeing with me? I can't tell.

Anyway I passed my instructor at Shenandoah in his 996 GT3, and I'm not the fastest guy around. So I guess I beg to differ? But let's chalk it it up to chance, lousy tires, a specific track or any other reason.

Still, as I said in my post, I maintain that in the hands of a regular driver a 996 GT3 will be slower than the M3. And since I am a regular driver, why would I switch?

[LehmanZ06]

A GT3 is both EASIER to drive, and FASTER around a track or in just about any situation.

A GT3 sucks balls when going up steep driveways, and hitting bad potholed roads.

GT3 is telepathic, M3 is just smart.
--------
I autocross the GT3 a lot, and just sold my 08 M3 Sedan yesterday. Autocrossed the M3 once----not that much fun, as car was bone stock in every way, but loved driving the M3. But 56,000 miles and out of warranty, and time to let it go to a new home.

"Sorry for the previous goof"...now edited

[signes]

Originally Posted by LehmanZ06

Autocrossed the GT3 once----not that much fun, as car was bone stock in every way, but loved driving the M3.

Seriously? I know autocross is slower than tracking but I've never heard anybody say this. Care to elaborate?

[LehmanZ06]

OOPS !

I meant to say autocrossed the M3 once and didn't like it as an autocross car.

Loved the GT3 as an autox car. Don't care for the GT3 as a DD.

Compete nationally with my 997.2 GT3....and it's the best car in SS in SCCA solo.

--------------
They might put the M3 is FS. Big difference between Super Stock in Solo, and F Stock where Mustangs roam.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by adc

So you are partially agreeing with me? I can't tell.

Anyway I passed my instructor at Shenandoah in his 996 GT3, and I'm not the fastest guy around. So I guess I beg to differ? But let's chalk it it up to chance, lousy tires, a specific track or any other reason.

Still, as I said in my post, I maintain that in the hands of a regular driver a 996 GT3 will be slower than the M3. And since I am a regular driver, why would I switch?

I think the fact that the learning curve is so high makes the car somewhat daunting along with the fact that the layout reacts differently, but no way in hell an M3 is keeping up with any GT3. I will never disagree with what someone prefers, your right, if you like your M3 better why would you? I was purely commenting on the GT3 not being a step up in performance.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Better is subjective. Some people respond to a rear-engine vehicle in ways others don't. Some to front-engine vehicles others don't. Your point is moot.

Ok..

[CPB]

Originally Posted by attila

No its not!! The M3 is way easier to drift than the GT3

Opinions vary.