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09-24-2009, 07:36 AM | #23 | |
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09-24-2009, 07:53 AM | #24 | |
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My gas mileage is in line with what most owners are getting. There are a number of guys over on clublexus that are getting 20 mpg or better. My commute is mostly city driving which kept my average down a bit. |
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09-24-2009, 09:18 AM | #25 | |
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Keep in mind the M3 Nurburgring Lap times of 8:05 are with the 6 speed manual.
Some people (Swamp etc.) claim the M-DCT should run faster than the 6 speed manual M3 under 8:00, which should be a better comparison with the auto transmission in the IS-F and its 8:18 time. The IS-F suspension is rock hard as it is. Way more than the M3 is in its race track setting. I cannot see them "tuning it up" anymore. If anything, Lexus will end up softening it up since there are too many complaints of the car's head constantly bobbling all the time on the highway. Quote:
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09-24-2009, 01:28 PM | #27 |
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There is nothing wrong with it. But you are simply taking markerting at its word. Let the independent tests happen. I guarantee you will be wrong. Simply putting a LSD in the IS-F will not make it lap as fast as the M3, sorry it won't happen. You also seem to think the only thing holding the IS-F from being as good as the M3 is "just" a LSD, do you get what you are typing. Do you see a 2 second gap between a C63 and a C63 with an LSD (perf. package)?
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09-24-2009, 01:44 PM | #28 | |
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09-24-2009, 01:47 PM | #29 |
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I am being logical.
Do you see a 2 second gap between a C63 and a C63 with a LSD (perf pack)? Please tell me how you believe a LSD will all of sudden transfer the IS-F into a M3. Please do. If I was insecure about lap times, I wouldn't have bought a heavy convertible. |
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09-24-2009, 03:30 PM | #31 | |
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If Lexus have softened the suspension it will probably improve it ring time, after all that is how Horst got his best time out of the M3. Another thing, whether it's true that an M-DCT M3 would be that much quicker is up for debate. But as this is only hearsay best we not discuss it's merits just yet. The only thing that is known is that on a 2 minute long lap the M3 is roughly 2 secs quicker than the older IS-F. Until some data appears for the new one we can only take Lexus at their word which if true means the IS-F is finally on terms with the mighty M. Not a bad result for the new kid of the bunch. |
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09-24-2009, 04:20 PM | #32 |
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09-24-2009, 04:22 PM | #33 |
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From what I have heard the suspension is unchanged. When I had my F I thought the suspension was tight, but it never seemed excessive to me. Even my wife said it wasn't too bad. Granted, my daily driver is a 3/4 ton Chevy 4x4 pickup so my perception of rough might be a bit skewed.
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09-24-2009, 05:15 PM | #34 | ||
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On paper, I'd say the M3 should be faster with the auto, so it seems a bit strange that Horst (or whomever) either hasn't gotten out there to play, or in fact he did and was encouraged to sit on the results. I'd assume the former, possibly on the basis of BMW having an idea of the results and making test cars scarce. Or not. Still seems strange, though. Are the M3 autos now bug free on track? I haven't been reading up lately. The other thing is that the 8:05 bimmer time was done on PSC+ tires, meaning the same type as those on the GT3, Viper ACR, etc. As a rule of thumb, those tires are likely good for around a second a minute compared to the PS2s. Don't get me wrong. BMW didn't cheat or anything, as those tires are (or were) an option on Euro versions. Not in the states, though, so apples aren't exactly apples against the Toyota. I'd love it if the Toyota guys threw a scare into the M folks with these changes, though. Maybe they'd hurl a bit more spice into the E9X cars as a result. Competition is good. Quote:
By the way, I can't believe the suspension is way firmer than the M3 track setting. Both times I tried that setting, I got some wheelhop on bumpy roads. That's pretty much blasphemous for road-going BMWs. Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 09-24-2009 at 05:41 PM.. |
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09-24-2009, 08:31 PM | #35 | |
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Totally agree about it being odd that we don't have HvS M-DCT N'Ring time and also that it is a bit unfortunate/apples to oranges that the time we do have was on PSC+.
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09-25-2009, 01:47 AM | #36 |
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Well, I'm glad that Bruce and Swamp at least recognize that the 8:05 was on PSC+ tires. I find it odd that most guys never or conveniently forget that. I suspect the DCT tranny with PS2 tires actually gives worse results than 8:05.
Also, the ride isn't so bad on the IS-F. Sure, that's what people complain about and the constant gear changing. But there's not much more to complain about. The only complaint I personally have is the weight and not enough HP/power mods. Nobody has cracked the ECU yet and a couple of twin turbo and nitrous out there, but not something I want. The 255 rear and 225 fronts were also probably/possibly a fuel saving measure. You could easily stick 265s or 275s on the 9 inch rear rims IMO if you really wanted to go tracking. But for the 99% of driving I do (not on track), the 225/255 is really enough. Heck my drag tires are only 245s and I can't get them to spin. I'm thinking of upping to 245/275 for track use. |
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09-25-2009, 02:28 AM | #37 |
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You're right, the benz does offer the Rare Performance Package for the C63 but it does not include it in the C63 as stock equipment whereas the M3 and the ISF does. Sorry for the confusion.
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09-25-2009, 03:24 AM | #38 |
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I know I harp on about this but not every setup will fully benefit from having the grippier rubber and don't always assume that even then the improvement will not always be that great, even on a track as long as the ring.
I would make a stab and say that the rubber on it's own in the M3 is accounting for 3~5 seconds on the ring, so that would still leave a PS2 equipped M3 posting somewhere between 8:08~8:10. I'm actually not that sure that the M-DCT will improve things that much on this track, I reckon it's biggest gain will come on much smoother circuits. So I concur that probably it will be no better than 8:05. |
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09-25-2009, 07:36 AM | #39 |
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M3 wins in terms of performance/driving experience no matter what(even if IS-F comes with LSD or what)
But I really liked IS-F because this car also offers great reliablity. If I was going to own the car more than 4-5 years, I would definitly got IS-F. You can NOT beat Lexus reliablity/service quaility. |
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09-25-2009, 10:11 AM | #40 | |
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With the extra tread groove on the PSC+, I back that off to about a second per minute. In any event, we're more or less disagreeing on the actual size of a dimple on a pimple on a flea's left nut, so whether the M3 would've done an 8:08 or an 8:13 seems less important than the fact that it would not do an 8:05, which some of the faithful conveniently forget. Bruce |
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09-25-2009, 12:12 PM | #41 | |
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It is only fair to compare apples to apples, which is track runs on the same day and back to back by the same driver. In that case, M3 and IS-F were tested around Top Gear race track both being driven by The Stig back to back. M3 lap time: 1.25.3 IS-F lap time: 1:26.9 Now it is close to 2 seconds difference, but it is all relative to the size of the track. Smaller tracks will amplify the impact of a second on the laptime. It is only fair to compare M3 vs cars that were 2 second faster around TG track. If you saw the Best Motoring track race, the IS-F was well over 10 - 12 car lengths behind the M3 to the Tsukuba circuit finish line and their time difference was less than 2 seconds. If you look at cars that were 1.23.xx and two second faster than the M3 on the Top Gear lap times, you would be amazed since they all are supercars costing three times as much and not even in M3 league such as, Lamborghini Murcielago, Pagani, Zonda, Koeniggsegg etc. Just goes to show how much of a superior track car the M3 is compared to IS-F.
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09-25-2009, 12:44 PM | #42 |
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I'm quite confident (90% sure) that the M3 used on that day was equipped with the 19" alloys and wearing Cup+.
I also recall the RS4, itself equipped was semi-race rubber but not quite as grippy posted a very similar time to the M3. |
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09-25-2009, 12:55 PM | #43 | |
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Regarding Best Motoring, I don't remember. I will have to find the video again and see if it was a different tire than the stock PS2. Remember there were two races. One with a white coupe and one with a silver sedan with IS-F and C63. The results were almost the same in both. Tire wise, I think it was PS2, but I have to check again.
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10-08-2009, 05:09 PM | #44 |
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I'd agree... with M3_WC
This is apples to apples: http://image.motortrend.com/f/816778...race_chart.jpg The M3 beat them both by 4 seconds... so 2 seconds isn't going to be enough time. Also... if the track in Japan is all 'Right Handers'... I believe 2 seconds... as that will induce the most wheelspin... if the track is left handers... the cars tendency to 'one wheel spin' is far less likely. Here are the video's as well: [u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hp9lkr4mBtM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hp9lkr4mBtM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b] [u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_vj5KL0urvQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_vj5KL0urvQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b] [u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8bzVvsD-8eU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8bzVvsD-8eU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b] Peace, Dave
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