Headers Not Worth It?

Skiptomylou37 · 08-03-2011, 11:07 AM

So I just picked up a brand new, IB e90 M3(had an 07' 335xi before) and am starting to plan out what all I want to do it with mods over the next year or two. From the research I have done and all the great info I have gained on this forum, it seems like the most logical/bang for your buck way to go is air intake, pulley, full exhaust(catback, x-pipe, and sportcats), and a tune. Something that I have been surprised to see is that there does not seem to be a lot of talk about aftermarket headers or the performance gains from them on the e9X M3s. Is this because the OEM headers are super efficient to begin with or because the benefits of aftermarket headers doesn't outweigh the cost?

P.S. If anyone knows a good BMW tuner anywhere near Pittsburgh, let me know. I'd appreciate it!

e92Mjunky · 08-03-2011, 11:16 AM

I heard from a source that several major aftermarket companies built and tested headers and could only make 2-3 hp, to mass produce a product that may retail at $3-$4K would not be worth anyone's time or effort, I bet the install would be a major pain too

Malek@MRF · 08-03-2011, 11:41 AM

Headers offer no appreciable gain on a standard S65. If the motor displacement is drastically increased, then yes, fine tuning the header tubing can be beneficial for some power gains.

The factory header is already an equal length tubular header with a beautifully crafted motorsport 4-1 collector at the end. It has no catalysts or restrictions on it.

Installation is a nightmare as well and extremely tight in there.

ScorpionT · 08-03-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malekreza11

Headers offer no appreciable gain on a standard S65. If the motor displacement is drastically increased, then yes, fine tuning the header tubing can be beneficial for some power gains.

The factory header is already an equal length tubular header with a beautifully crafted motorsport 4-1 collector at the end. It has no catalysts or restrictions on it.

Installation is a nightmare as well and extremely tight in there.

Exactly. No need to change the factory headers.

Sales@Evolve · 08-03-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e92Mjunky

I heard from a source that several major aftermarket companies built and tested headers and could only make 2-3 hp, to mass produce a product that may retail at $3-$4K would not be worth anyone's time or effort, I bet the install would be a major pain too

This is true, come of the most well know manufacturers have done alot of testing and gained not alot other than some midrange torque.

flipm3 · 08-03-2011, 01:11 PM

Such a bittersweet fact. Sweet in the sense that, that's less money for us to spend. Bitter because it would have been so sweet to have stepped, equal-length, long tube headers...now it doesn't seem possible, haha

Simrokkzz · 08-03-2011, 01:49 PM

the m3 GT4 car uses stock headers

the M3 GT2 car has slightly different, weight reason...

see output per liter displacement from stock

even headwork will not bring a lot on n/a engine....

Space Ghost · 08-03-2011, 01:51 PM

RD Sport made long tube headers. I think they cost $7500.

NJBMWM3 · 08-03-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simrokkzz

even headwork will not bring a lot on n/a engine....

You must have never heard of small block Fords and Chevy's...you can make killer power with heads on these motors

And its actually quite the opposite turbo or supercharger if force feeding the motor so the motor doesn't have to work as hard sucking air into the CC

Nate@IND · 08-03-2011, 02:52 PM

Ericsson Titanium S65 headers. Not worth it at all but so nice to look at

flipm3 · 08-03-2011, 02:59 PM

oh the terrible things id do to have those titanium headers.....

sensi09 · 08-03-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simrokkzz

the m3 GT4 car uses stock headers

the M3 GT2 car has slightly different, weight reason...

see output per liter displacement from stock

even headwork will not bring a lot on n/a engine....

Is the GT4 car allowed to change headers?

Grail05 · 08-03-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipm3

oh the terrible things id do to have those titanium headers.....

Yeap... im with you...

persian54 · 08-03-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

Ericsson Titanium S65 headers. Not worth it at all but so nice to look at

What does this cost lol

Grail05 · 08-03-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by persian54

What does this cost lol

YOUR ARM AND YOUR LEG... PLUS YOUR GUTS....

Nate@IND · 08-03-2011, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by persian54

What does this cost lol

If you have to ask......

Malek@MRF · 08-03-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simrokkzz

the m3 GT4 car uses stock headers

the M3 GT2 car has slightly different, weight reason...

see output per liter displacement from stock

even headwork will not bring a lot on n/a engine....

The M3 GT2 S65 is pretty much very different than your standard S65 as the firing order and crank have been changed to accommodate its flat-plane crank.

Head work does a lot if the head is already restrictive. The S65 cylinder heads are pretty much optimized for maximum VE and there isn't much room to improve while also considering that the head is ported by CNC at the factory and its already a great, smooth port.

Simrokkzz · 08-05-2011, 08:48 AM

hmm the headers "look like" stock ones

here at the Nürburgring, there are 2 cars GT2 M3 from Schnitzer (BMW Motorsport)
you can walk into the box and see whilst the mechs are preparing the car.

it does not look like magic.

this is more the intake side, with the restictors.....

shay2nak · 08-05-2011, 01:56 PM

how much weight do those Ti headers save?

Green-Eggs · 08-07-2011, 12:38 PM

Not worth it for most

08-03-2011, 11:07 AM	#1
Skiptomylou37 Second Lieutenant 54 Rep 270 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 335xi Join Date: May 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (1)	Headers Not Worth It? So I just picked up a brand new, IB e90 M3(had an 07' 335xi before) and am starting to plan out what all I want to do it with mods over the next year or two. From the research I have done and all the great info I have gained on this forum, it seems like the most logical/bang for your buck way to go is air intake, pulley, full exhaust(catback, x-pipe, and sportcats), and a tune. Something that I have been surprised to see is that there does not seem to be a lot of talk about aftermarket headers or the performance gains from them on the e9X M3s. Is this because the OEM headers are super efficient to begin with or because the benefits of aftermarket headers doesn't outweigh the cost? P.S. If anyone knows a good BMW tuner anywhere near Pittsburgh, let me know. I'd appreciate it! Last edited by Skiptomylou37; 08-03-2011 at 11:13 AM..
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08-03-2011, 11:16 AM	#2
e92Mjunky First Lieutenant 111 Rep 395 Posts Drives: E46 M3 S65 swap Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	I heard from a source that several major aftermarket companies built and tested headers and could only make 2-3 hp, to mass produce a product that may retail at $3-$4K would not be worth anyone's time or effort, I bet the install would be a major pain too __________________ E46 M3 S65 swap
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08-03-2011, 11:41 AM	#3
Malek@MRF BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 731 Rep 3,735 Posts Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, G82 M4 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Irvine, California iTrader: (5)	Headers offer no appreciable gain on a standard S65. If the motor displacement is drastically increased, then yes, fine tuning the header tubing can be beneficial for some power gains. The factory header is already an equal length tubular header with a beautifully crafted motorsport 4-1 collector at the end. It has no catalysts or restrictions on it. Installation is a nightmare as well and extremely tight in there. __________________ BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments. OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook \| Instagram \| Yelp! \| Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 \| E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com
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08-03-2011, 01:11 PM	#6
flipm3 E46 + E90 + F80 192 Rep 2,894 Posts Drives: E46 + E90 + F80 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Illinois iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00] 2002 BMW M3 [0.00]	Such a bittersweet fact. Sweet in the sense that, that's less money for us to spend. Bitter because it would have been so sweet to have stepped, equal-length, long tube headers...now it doesn't seem possible, haha __________________ F80 M3 DCT\|Alpine White . Black Leather \| My Build Thread E90 M3 DCT\|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth \| My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT\|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather \| My Build Thread
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08-03-2011, 01:49 PM	#7
Simrokkzz Private 1 Rep 92 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	the m3 GT4 car uses stock headers the M3 GT2 car has slightly different, weight reason... see output per liter displacement from stock even headwork will not bring a lot on n/a engine....
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08-03-2011, 01:51 PM	#8
Space Ghost Captain 11 Rep 619 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: USA-PA iTrader: (5)	RD Sport made long tube headers. I think they cost $7500.
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08-03-2011, 02:52 PM	#10
Nate@IND BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 2868 Rep 11,374 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago iTrader: (19)	Ericsson Titanium S65 headers. Not worth it at all but so nice to look at __________________ IND DISTRIBUTION \| 866-963-4520 • FACEBOOK • INSTAGRAM • FLICKR
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08-03-2011, 02:59 PM	#11
flipm3 E46 + E90 + F80 192 Rep 2,894 Posts Drives: E46 + E90 + F80 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Illinois iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00] 2002 BMW M3 [0.00]	oh the terrible things id do to have those titanium headers..... __________________ F80 M3 DCT\|Alpine White . Black Leather \| My Build Thread E90 M3 DCT\|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth \| My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT\|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather \| My Build Thread
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08-05-2011, 08:48 AM	#18
Simrokkzz Private 1 Rep 92 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	hmm the headers "look like" stock ones here at the Nürburgring, there are 2 cars GT2 M3 from Schnitzer (BMW Motorsport) you can walk into the box and see whilst the mechs are preparing the car. it does not look like magic. this is more the intake side, with the restictors.....
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08-05-2011, 01:56 PM	#19
shay2nak smoke if ya got 'em 1070 Rep 2,179 Posts Drives: F80 M3/Lotus Exige/500 Abarth Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Calipornia iTrader: (0)	how much weight do those Ti headers save?
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08-07-2011, 12:38 PM	#20
Green-Eggs BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 1439 Rep 1,614 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (3)	Not worth it for most
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