Anyone have problems with sellers not honoring no reserve eBay Auto auctions?

[budmanv24]

Some things I found. Most notably, points C and D:

Texas Business & Commerce Code - Section 2.328. Sale By Auction

Legal Research Home > Texas Laws > Business & Commerce Code > Texas Business & Commerce Code - Section 2.328. Sale By Auction

§ 2.328. SALE BY AUCTION.
(a) In a sale by auction if goods are put up in lots each lot is the subject of a separate sale.
(b) A sale by auction is complete when the auctioneer so announces by the fall of the hammer or in other customary manner. Where a bid is made while the hammer is falling in acceptance of a prior bid the auctioneer may in his discretion reopen the bidding or declare the goods sold under the bid on which the hammer was falling.
(c) Such a sale is with reserve unless the goods are in explicit terms put up without reserve. In an auction with reserve the auctioneer may withdraw the goods at any time until he announces completion of the sale. In an auction without reserve, after the auctioneer calls for bids on an article or lot, that article or lot cannot be withdrawn unless no bid is made within a reasonable time. In either case a bidder may retract his bid until the auctioneer's announcement of completion of the sale, but a bidder's retraction does not revive any previous bid.
(d) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale. Acts 1967, 60th Leg., p. 2343, ch. 785, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1967.
http://law.onecle.com/texas/business/2.328.00.html

And, on top of that, two things that are listed on eBay site as not allowed under the non-binding bid policy:
-Backing out of the transaction due to buyer or seller remorse
-Backing out of the transaction because buyers didn't place a high enough bid and the seller didn't add a reserve price
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...nding-bid.html

[whats77inaname]

That's all well and good, but have you sent them your $1500 in a traceable way as of yet so you're not in violation of the auction terms?

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by Darth One

this is complete crap on the part of eBay. what the hell are non-binding bids?! their whole site, business model, and company is a complete joke then if they are doing auctions that are not really auctions.

utter stupidity

It isn't complete crap on eBay's part, it is complete crap on the dealership's part. eBay has had to take this route due to different laws in different states (there may be "cooling off" periods in some states, etc.).

It is the seller that is making the mistake here. I wonder if the $7k difference in price will even come close to the loss of sales that will occur if this goes "viral enough"?

It will take an awful lot of money spent in advertising to clean up the mess. What I find even worse is the Major Motors seems to be threatening "legal action" against either the winning bidder or someone on a forum who said something that they didn't like.

Does this business have more pride than brains? These tactics will not end well if they are continued.

[budmanv24]

I feel like I've been withholding a significant amount of information from you guys for the purpose of protecting the dealership in hopes that things work out. I believe that y'all deserve the entire story.

Everything that whats77inaname posted is accurate.

Let's start from the beginning. While searching eBay for no reserve BMW auctions last week I found the listing for the M3 in question. I don't bid on reserve auctions because 9 times out of 10 the seller has set the reserve at retail level. I'm looking for a car because my 328i was hit by a hail storm that came through our area. I need something to drive for the month or so while my car is being repaired due to the fact that I don't have rental coverage. Upon finding the M3 I placed it on my watch list and kept an eye on it. I placed a few bids over the next 24hrs and was the highest bidder, winning the auction at close. I was extremely ecstatic at this victory as the M3 is quite a fine automobile.

The following day (4/20/2012 11:27am) I called Autodynamics to arrange the down payment as per the instructions on their eBay listing. Unfortunately, the excitement wore off rapidly. Upon introducing myself to the receptionist and stating my intentions to setup payment and pickup of my new M3 she immediately accused me of "hacking eBay" and changing the Buy It Now price on the auction. I told her that would of been difficult given the fact that there were other people bidding on the car just like me. So I asked to talk to the owner, Sanjay Varma. Sanjay told me a different story stating that his dealership had placed a reserve on the auction and that eBay had an error, since it "wasn't possible to have a listing with a starting bid price and a Buy It Now price." After some discussion he said since we had no written contract, the best he could offer was knock a couple grand off the price he had the car listed for on his lot, $40,500. Without coming to an agreement I told him I would call him later and we ended the conversation.

Upon receiving the advice of some members of this forum and additional research, I used the eBay messaging tool to send Autodynamics excerpts from the Texas Business & Commerce Code along with parts of eBay's policy. I included that I looked forward to doing business with them as everything seemed pretty cut and dry. I asked when would be a good time to finalize the deal and sent my message on its way.

The following day (4/26/2012 1:06pm) I received a voicemail from Ali Fazel of the Law Offices of Scardino & Fazel in Houston on behalf of Autodynamics stating that Fazel's client has requested he contact me to come to a resolution. "Great!" I thought "we were finally getting somewhere." Upon calling Ali back (4:47pm) I was instructed that the the M3 "Is no longer available to [me]" unless I am willing to buy it at $40,500, in which case it is available. After farther pushing Fazel, he says that he doesn't know the current status of the car and that it may have been sold. At this time I tell him it is unacceptable to have sold the car I purchased through eBay. His alternative solution, which he insisted was in my best interests, was to take a 335xi automatic that they found elsewhere. I have no interest in all-wheel drive, automatic cars and by this point had my sights set on the Dinan M3 (aka, M3 with some Dinan upgrades). So I tell him to find out the status of the M3 and we end the phone call.

A little over 30 minutes later (5:27PM) Ali calls me back. The car had been sold to another dealer for list price, $40,500, but Sanjay is willing to take a $500 loss and sell me the car for $40,000. I ask, "what about Sanjays offer on Friday to knock a couple grand off the price for me to make things right?" Ali tells me that Sanjay is not willing to take a penny less than $40,000 for the car. Sanjay is worried about going back on the offer to the other dealership and angering them. Once again we are unable to come to an agreement and we end the conversation.

This is currently where we sit. I'm back to square one with nothing to drive while my car gets repaired. I have a loan check made out for a BMW M3 with the vin number WBSVA935X8E215763, which is useless at this point. I am upset to say the least.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by budmanv24

I feel like I've been withholding a significant amount of information from you guys for the purpose of protecting the dealership in hopes that things work out. I believe that y'all deserve the entire story.

Everything that whats77inaname posted is accurate.

Let's start from the beginning. While searching eBay for no reserve BMW auctions last week I found the listing for the M3 in question. I don't bid on reserve auctions because 9 times out of 10 the seller has set the reserve at retail level. I'm looking for a car because my 328i was hit by a hail storm that came through our area. I need something to drive for the month or so while my car is being repaired due to the fact that I don't have rental coverage. Upon finding the M3 I placed it on my watch list and kept an eye on it. I placed a few bids over the next 24hrs and was the highest bidder, winning the auction at close. I was extremely ecstatic at this victory as the M3 is quite a fine automobile.

The following day (4/20/2012 11:27am) I called Autodynamics to arrange the down payment as per the instructions on their eBay listing. Unfortunately, the excitement wore off rapidly. Upon introducing myself to the receptionist and stating my intentions to setup payment and pickup of my new M3 she immediately accused me of "hacking eBay" and changing the Buy It Now price on the auction. I told her that would of been difficult given the fact that there were other people bidding on the car just like me. So I asked to talk to the owner, Sanjay Varma. Sanjay told me a different story stating that his dealership had placed a reserve on the auction and that eBay had an error, since it "wasn't possible to have a listing with a starting bid price and a Buy It Now price." After some discussion he said since we had no written contract, the best he could offer was knock a couple grand off the price he had the car listed for on his lot, $40,500. Without coming to an agreement I told him I would call him later and we ended the conversation.

Upon receiving the advice of some members of this forum and additional research, I used the eBay messaging tool to send Autodynamics excerpts from the Texas Business & Commerce Code along with parts of eBay's policy. I included that I looked forward to doing business with them as everything seemed pretty cut and dry. I asked when would be a good time to finalize the deal and sent my message on its way.

The following day (4/26/2012 1:06pm) I received a voicemail from Ali Fazel of the Law Offices of Scardino & Fazel in Houston on behalf of Autodynamics stating that Fazel's client has requested he contact me to come to a resolution. "Great!" I thought "we were finally getting somewhere." Upon calling Ali back (4:47pm) I was instructed that the the M3 "Is no longer available to [me]" unless I am willing to buy it at $40,500, in which case it is available. After farther pushing Fazel, he says that he doesn't know the current status of the car and that it may have been sold. At this time I tell him it is unacceptable to have sold the car I purchased through eBay. His alternative solution, which he insisted was in my best interests, was to take a 335xi automatic that they found elsewhere. I have no interest in all-wheel drive, automatic cars and by this point had my sights set on the Dinan M3 (aka, M3 with some Dinan upgrades). So I tell him to find out the status of the M3 and we end the phone call.

A little over 30 minutes later (5:27PM) Ali calls me back. The car had been sold to another dealer for list price, $40,500, but Sanjay is willing to take a $500 loss and sell me the car for $40,000. I ask, "what about Sanjays offer on Friday to knock a couple grand off the price for me to make things right?" Ali tells me that Sanjay is not willing to take a penny less than $40,000 for the car. Sanjay is worried about going back on the offer to the other dealership and angering them. Once again we are unable to come to an agreement and we end the conversation.

This is currently where we sit. I'm back to square one with nothing to drive while my car gets repaired. I have a loan check made out for a BMW M3 with the vin number WBSVA935X8E215763, which is useless at this point. I am upset to say the least.

Dude, I'm telling you, stop dicking around. Get hold of a Houston radio station, news station, file a complaint with ebay, send the money order, get on jalopnik. File a complaint with the BBB. Do everything you can to position yourself to win. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and you're not making enough damn noise!

And sorry, but why are you trying to protect a seller who's trying to raw dog you?

A deal is a deal is a deal. There has to be a Tx lawyer here willing to help out a fellow M3 member.

[kdphan]

I'm sure this will come back to bite the dealership.

Have you posted this to Jalopnik?

I'm sure those guys will add fuel to your fire.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by kdphan

I'm sure this will come back to bite the dealership.

Have you posted this to Jalopnik?

I'm sure those guys will add fuel to your fire.

Not only Jalopnik, but charity begins @ home. Have you contacted the forum admins so this can be a bimmerpost.com front page article???

You need to be waging a PR campaign against these guys to get this car.

[budmanv24]

I have tried filing an eBay claim, and while I have done this in the past on other items it appears that auto's are another beast to which your only option is calling eBay. That got me to a call center to which the person on the other end of the line seemed to have no interest in my issues, couldn't answer my questions, and kept giving the same scripted answers. She said they would file a report against the seller, but I honestly do not believe that to be the case. I got on google and started searching numbers for eBay and called numerous numbers with no success. All were either a recording or disconnected.

I also facebook messaged Ben Popken, author of the Stealerships article on Jalopnik. I'll see what media outlets I can get a hold of tomorrow in Houston.

How do I contact the admins?

[budmanv24]

...and I just sent an email to the Jalopnik general email.

[whats77inaname]

If you check the articles on the first page of Bimmerpost.com, they're usually posted by Jason, and the tag under his name says "Administrator". I'd start there. And that long post you made a few posts up detailing things thus far? I'd edit your *first* post to mirror *that* post. No one wants to wade 3 pages in to find the story. Put it out front.

[budmanv24]

I agree. Done, Done, and Done. I also left my negative eBay feedback.

[motosan]

I am just curious, if it is non binding, and if we twist your story a bit, let's say you as the seller backs out this deal, will you have legal obligation to purchase that vehicle or will you be fined by eBay in anyway? If yes, eBay is doing a business that certainly does not protect the consumers enough, and that's huge. You might as well sue eBay with a Class Suit (of course, if you are that pissed....)

[cjrivera]

Too bad Autodynamics doesn't have a FB page or Google review page.

The dealer that didn't honor the ebay bid on e46fanatics had to remove his FB page because of all the negative comments and his Google review page went from 4stars to 2 and is continuing to go down.

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?um...ed=0CDgQ4gkwAA

[budmanv24]

Oh, but they do...

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl...ed=0CDsQtwQwAA

[rdollie]

So...to summarize:

eBay's policy is consistent and written in a manner to accomodate varying state laws. The OP made a bid for a car with no reserve. The dealer refused to honor the bid and is in conflict with eBay rules on reneging because they feel the winning bid is too low in a no-reserve auction.

If this right then I say if you can't get the local (Houston) TV consumer advocate to feature your story then take your evidence (screen shot?) that it was a no-reserve auction, a copy of the eBay seller agreement rules for no-reserve auctions, and the price for a similar car from another dealer and sue for the difference in price for the cars plus legal fees.

Better yet, save yourself the hassle. Take your documentation to small claims court which has a $10,000 limit in Texas. This should cover the delta in cost between your bid and a similar car from another dealer and you won't have to worry about big legal fees if you lose.

Good luck.

[goto35]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Dude, I'm telling you, stop dicking around. Get hold of a Houston radio station, news station, file a complaint with ebay, send the money order, get on jalopnik. File a complaint with the BBB. Do everything you can to position yourself to win. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and you're not making enough damn noise!

And sorry, but why are you trying to protect a seller who's trying to raw dog you?

A deal is a deal is a deal. There has to be a Tx lawyer here willing to help out a fellow M3 member.

dealer accidentally left it no reserve. But if every dealer sells a car for 3-4 less than what they paid for it they would all go under. No way your gonna get it at that price esp since its a pirvate dealer and not a big name.

Good luck. But keep searching. you will find a better deal out there.

[budmanv24]

Originally Posted by jateshk

dealer accidentally left it no reserve. But if every dealer sells a car for 3-4 less than what they paid for it they would all go under. No way your gonna get it at that price esp since its a pirvate dealer and not a big name.

Good luck. But keep searching. you will find a better deal out there.

If it were as simple as that I would have some sympathy for them. Whether or not it is actually true, I feel like every time I turn around they're feeding me lies. It seems like no matter what, they are going to extreme lengths to do whatever they can to make money off me regardless of the fact that they screwed up.

If you can find a better deal than a 2008 M3 with 26k miles and Dinan upgrades for $33,700 I'd love to see it. Although, if you factor having to deal with Autodynamics into the price, then you're right, there are tons of better deals out there.

[mxa121]

Originally Posted by budmanv24

...if you factor having to deal with Autodynamics into the price, then you're right, there are tons of better deals out there.

So true. Sometimes paying a little more for some good service is worth it.

Reading this thread makes me sad, its like every car dealer will bend the rules to bank. If there is no set reserve, then too F in bad, they should honor the sale.

[budmanv24]

Well, looks like they did sell my car off to another dealer. Texas Direct Auto has it now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M...item19d0597890

This should make things even more interesting.

If anyone has any experience with the small claims court system in Texas and is willing to give me any pointers please pm me.

[TheeGovernor]

This guy had same exact problem when he bought a GTR off ebay.
http://my350z.com/forum/the-lounge-o...an-marcos.html
He sued and created a media storm and won.

[budmanv24]

I've contacted a lawyer and will keep everyone updated.

[budmanv24]

Texas Direct Auto has taken down their eBay listing of the car. Although I don't know if it is because of our efforts or if they sold the car to a walk in customer.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT