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11-05-2012, 03:31 PM | #266 |
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Lmfao
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11-05-2012, 03:55 PM | #267 | |||
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11-05-2012, 04:25 PM | #268 |
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Oh shit ! Haha well, im glad that everyone is getting along now |
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11-05-2012, 04:29 PM | #269 | |
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Shhhh I'm planting seeds , she's gonna take him out ! Albanian style |
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11-05-2012, 04:31 PM | #270 |
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11-05-2012, 04:32 PM | #271 |
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ok,
so this should be of interest to many of you: Doesn't get closer than this does it. Peak RPM PSi as close as it gets, within 0.1 PSi. One kit has it's throttles 100% open to the RPM limiter and the other still with the soft cut limiter with the throttles closing (proof lies in the boost spiking up). Interesting isn't it. Additional Notes - no the Vortech is not really that weak under 3500rpm, just how the car launches itself on the dyno. Can sometimes give a bit of a skewed effect. Hard to control. Stock engines. Primary DECATS. 99 Euro Fuel (Shell V Power) Both have properly cold air induction systems with smooth flow to rear of SC. Rotrex Tested in 15 DegC Ambient Vortech 8 DegC Ambient Correction Factors both extremely close to 1.00 Notice how the peak HP at RPM limiters is almost identical. Why? Max airflow of both blowers extremely similar. This is a very very close test of what two different kits with two different blowers with equal boost are actually like in comparison. Last edited by Sales@Evolve; 11-05-2012 at 05:30 PM.. |
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11-05-2012, 04:32 PM | #272 |
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11-05-2012, 04:37 PM | #273 |
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And just when we thought the little stupid pesky Rotrex could do no more....
Smaller pulley. The boost curve remains the same shape but just goes up everywhere. 7.75 PSi More Notes: Yes we are showing flywheel figures. Just look at the delta. Purposefully didn't put up wheel figures because everyone forgets that Dyno Dynamics read a good 13-15% lower than Dynojet. Correction Factor - 0.997 ............. and it has more to come. Just change the pulley again. It gets even more angry. Can it match a Vortech? Yes. Why? 1134 CFM vs 1150CFM. Just got to make sure you use the right pulleys to put that CFM at the engine RPM you want. Anyone want to see Vortech vs Rotrex on an E39 M5 in the exact same car under almost exact same conditions? I have loads of data... Last edited by Sales@Evolve; 11-05-2012 at 05:13 PM.. |
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11-05-2012, 04:44 PM | #274 |
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Malaka is here
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11-05-2012, 04:47 PM | #275 | |
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11-05-2012, 04:52 PM | #276 |
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@M33 I've heard from some of their previous customers thank you very much. As i stated before they have been very professional with all of their business dealings concerning me and those I know. How have they wronged you or are you just going by hearsay? I'm assuming they must have done you a disservice because you seem like an upstanding individual on this Internet forum who would not try to smear or slander a company simple because you have another product or allegiance to friends on here. My apologies to the OP but it seems as if he has made a decision so this shouldn't bother him to much. Congrats by the way!
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11-05-2012, 05:08 PM | #277 | |
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V3Si. Now compare the compressor maps of both. Then look at the above results again. Then you will see they both marry up almost exactly. To get the above results from a Rotrex takes a lot of work and a lot of attention to detail. The rest of the hardware has to be optimized and belt slip must be controlled. That.. is where it get's really tricky. The step up ratio of 7.5 on these blowers and the standard crank pulley size of just 120mm makes life very very difficult to avoid belt slip. |
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11-05-2012, 05:59 PM | #278 |
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Another test of the Rotrex C38-91 vs Vortech V3Si on the same car
Car - BMW E39 M5 Evolve 4-1 Tubular Headers Evolve High Flow 200 CELL CAT's Evolve X Pipe and rear exhaust This is the closest test we could run. The next Rotrex pulley size takes boost to 8 PSi. Did not have Vortech pulley to hand to test so this is as close we could get it. You can see again, it's very close. You can clearly see if it was possible to take the Rotrex up another 0.5 PSi with a custom pulley the power and boost are matched. Both blowers are about the same percentage through their max rpm's. Rotrex is at 81000 / 90000 Vortec is 46000 / 52000 This particular engine setup requires way more airflow to make decent boost. The headers are massive (double in volume of the Supersprint design) and drop the boost levels dramatically as the stock headers are highly restrictive. Notes: Vortech was tested with 4 degC ambient temps Rotrex was tested with 14degC ambient temps Similar free flowing intake design Standard Plenum That's two major platforms now with evidence. If anyone else has proper evidence like this on the same dyno under controlled conditions (we can show this) comparing Vortech vs Rotrex then please post it up rather than make an assumption. All of this backs up the comparative compressor maps and shows their theory works quite well but can show a variance depending on the type of engine used. Interesting point to note - boost curves are far more similar in shape on this engine than on S65. Discuss.... I will be able to show results of S54 on both too. Maybe S85 if I can find the time. Last edited by Sales@Evolve; 11-05-2012 at 06:05 PM.. |
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11-05-2012, 06:10 PM | #279 | |
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According to your math Sal on the correction difference between your Dyno Dynamics and a Dynojet your customers will see about 600 whp on a Dynojet with your kit as the whp numbers you have posted for your kit on your dyno are around 520. You just posted that a Dynojet will add another 15% to that number. I look forward to these customer independent 600 whp dyno's on Dynojets as that would be very impressive IMO for the Rotrex with only 7.75 psi. According to the dyno below done of the Rotrex C38 by Active you would need 10 psi and water meth to get to around 550 whp on a similar air/air supercharger system. There must be something you are doing that is very different than Active is or your using different math, please keep us posted. Independent dyno files "one direct from Active" below not a vendor made dyno comparison. Same correction factor used on both, ambient temps 10 degrees lower on the vortech dyno. This is the only independent data that exists until more files are made available. Blue Vortech V3 @ 8.5 psi Red Rotrex C38 @ 10 psi with water / meth. |
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11-05-2012, 06:34 PM | #281 | |
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AA, for example, gave up on the Rotrex because it could not flow enough on a low compression S65. On the other hand, ESS has run the Vortech to 645 rwhp on a low compression S65. It may well be that for more efficient stock compression motors making 550 to 600 rwhp, the Rotrex works just as well as the Vortech. We will have to see some dynojet comparisons at some point. One thing I did not notice from the Rotrex C38-91 dyno comparison to the Vortech is any indication the big Rotrex has any torque advantage over the Vortech. I had been wondering whether the big Rotrex would sacrifice that. But daily drivability cannot be seen on the dyno, which is constant full throttle in one gear. Hopefully, on the road, the Rotrex offers some advantage over the Vortech. |
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11-05-2012, 06:40 PM | #282 | |
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Difference: 20 whp more than our hks unit at the same psi and more tq as well. I'll have some data on how they stack up with a little less boost later on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: Here are the numbers: Stock engine- no cats- Dct-93 oct+ meth Dyno jet correct 1.1 Mustang Dyno- 535 @ 11 psi 505 @ 9.5psi 425 @ 6psi Dyno jet using conversion - 589 @ 11 Psi 556 @ 9.5psi 467 @ 6 psi Swapped the 20'' wheels for stock and instead of 425 @ 6psi it made 455 whp back to back. We will have to do the same for 9.5 to see if any increase can proven. Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 11-05-2012 at 09:01 PM.. |
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11-05-2012, 07:22 PM | #283 | |
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Wow @ this thread is right... Too much s/c drama.
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Are you saying that stock cars on the road do not exceed 8,300 at the crankshaft?
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11-05-2012, 07:35 PM | #284 | ||
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Cool Hopefully someone can post a Rotrex making the 600 whp Evolve claims on a dynojet. Drew made 600 whp at close to the same boost you had Andrew on your beta low CR motor, he also has a beta low CR motor so thats about as close a comparison as it gets. BTW Andrew why did you guys stop using Rotrex in your kits and switch to HKS? Did you find that the HKS performed better at lower boost? |
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11-05-2012, 07:43 PM | #286 | |
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From what I have seen the Rotrex makes even more hp and tq throughout the graph at lower boost. Yeah I left that one alone.. Last edited by SflBimmer8484; 11-05-2012 at 07:48 PM.. |
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