BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-14-2012, 10:54 AM   #67
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Update

Had a question for all those who helped out on this before. I recently put on an Akra midpipe (love it) and while i was doing the install I noticed that the header gasket on the drivers side was totally shredded. When I pulled off the stock midpipe what was left of the gasket ring just fell off along with the fitting that the midpipe bolts up to. Gasket ring on the passenger side was fine (see pics below.) Any chance this could have contributed to the low dyno numbers? I am going to schedule another dyno run and will post up the results, although won't be directly applicable since I will be doing it with the full Evo setup.

New gasket ring v. old



Old one on passenger side still in good shape


Whats left of the old shredded gasket fused to the stock midpipe


The midpipe has never been removed - bought the car new and I've never had work done that would require removing the stock midpipe. Anybody ever seen this before?

Loving the added power and smoothness from the Akra x-pipe, such an improvement. Can only imagine how much better it will get with a tune!
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 11:09 AM   #68
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8073
Rep
18,790
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Seen it lots of times before, it's a wear part. Condition depends on a number of factors like driving habits, mileage, etc.

Glad you are happy with the Akrapovic!
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 11:13 AM   #69
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Tom. Would a gasket in that poor shape contribute to a leak / affect the dyno results?
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #70
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5184
Rep
10,557
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

How badly was it leaking? If it was leaking, you would see a lot of black residue around the connection.

I am not an expert in the E90M3 ECU, but my guess is that there would be no change because the remaining exhaust gas would all have the same AFR as if none had escaped. If fresh air was being drawn in through the leak, then the AFR would lean out and the ECU would add fuel to restore it and eventually throw a code.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #71
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Given the condition of the gasket, I was assuming it was leaking to some degree. I saw black residue on the back of that pipe, but it was also pretty dark when I finished and didn't take a pic of it (could also just have been road grime.) Never got a code so maybe no issue. Maybe hoping I found an "issue" that was solved with the swap.

BTW, thanks again for your help on the install.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2012, 11:48 AM   #72
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
8073
Rep
18,790
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2018 BMW i3s  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [6.50]
2015 BMW M4  [5.25]
Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
Thanks Tom. Would a gasket in that poor shape contribute to a leak / affect the dyno results?
Hard to say, but likely not. Simply replace and redyno again to see if that was the culprit.
__________________
Tom G. | european auto source (eas)
email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2012, 01:36 PM   #73
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5184
Rep
10,557
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
Given the condition of the gasket, I was assuming it was leaking to some degree. I saw black residue on the back of that pipe, but it was also pretty dark when I finished and didn't take a pic of it (could also just have been road grime.) Never got a code so maybe no issue. Maybe hoping I found an "issue" that was solved with the swap.

BTW, thanks again for your help on the install.
I am excited to see people DIYing!
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 06:44 PM   #74
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Another update - dyno

The saga continues... I was able to get to the dyno again and do some runs with the Akra x-pipe. Same gas (Shell 91), same-ish temps/humidity... Looks like normal gains for hp and torque that come with the Akra. Next stop, OEM software upgrade and/or tune and another run.

Run file 3: Best run of first dyno last spring (Akra rear, no other mods)
Run file 8: Best run from follow-up confirmatory run
Run file 18: Best run from last weekend (with full Akra Evo)

__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 09:06 PM   #75
GIdriver
Major
GIdriver's Avatar
United_States
68
Rep
1,359
Posts

Drives: 2014 E63 AMG-S
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Somewhere in Time

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the update. Maybe I missed it, but did you changed the spark plugs yet?
Another suggestion: dyno the car after the OEM software update, and again after installing an aftermarket tune. Do not do both things together without a dyno in between.
__________________
2014 E63 AMG-S
2012 C63 AMG (P31) - gone
2011 E90 M3 FBO - gone
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 11:14 PM   #76
ortho281
Major
ortho281's Avatar
United_States
203
Rep
1,164
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (1)

Subscribed. Very interesting thread.
__________________

Akra GT4 / MS Stage 2 / MS UDP / BPM Tune / KW CS / H&R Sways / TMS Delrin / ST 380/355 BBK / Cantrell 2.5" Ducts / SR34 Pads / Apex Arc-8 / Hoosier R7's / Mode GT4 Splitter / GT4 Canards / APR GT-250 Wing / Cantrell Half Cage / Recaro Pro Racer / Schroth Profi II-6 / BMW Alcantera Wheel / Cool Shirt / ESS Fire Supp / Solo DL
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 11:45 PM   #77
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIdriver View Post
Thanks for the update. Maybe I missed it, but did you changed the spark plugs yet?
Another suggestion: dyno the car after the OEM software update, and again after installing an aftermarket tune. Do not do both things together without a dyno in between.
I did change the plugs (dealer did) a little less than 15k ago. I have another set that I will swap probably before the next dyno run just to be sure.

The plan would be to consecutively run baseline, upgraded OEM software then a tune on the same day. Just will need the files load them between runs. Not sure if that wouldn't be enough time to allow the engine to adapt, just would be nice to do iit that way to isolate as many variables as possible.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2012, 06:13 AM   #78
Chriskm3
Colonel
Chriskm3's Avatar
Canada
59
Rep
2,186
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Oh boy, my '08 with typical bolt-ons goes in for an Evolve tune and before and after dyno. I hope I fare better than you. I must say, my M3 doesn't feel feel like it has 100+ more HP than my old 350Z with bolt-ons. I'm kinda worried.
I used to have. 350z and my m3 feels twice as responsive.my base was 359 with xpipe and drop in filter. I miss the z sometimes.
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2012, 02:56 PM   #79
M3PO
Colonel
M3PO's Avatar
83
Rep
2,792
Posts

Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
I did change the plugs (dealer did) a little less than 15k ago. I have another set that I will swap probably before the next dyno run just to be sure.

The plan would be to consecutively run baseline, upgraded OEM software then a tune on the same day. Just will need the files load them between runs. Not sure if that wouldn't be enough time to allow the engine to adapt, just would be nice to do iit that way to isolate as many variables as possible.
It will adapt to the conditions (being driven hard on the dyno) and make as much power as possible. Just keep running it until it makes the same or slightly lower power. It has then adapted to make the most power possible.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2012, 11:16 PM   #80
BPMSport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
BPMSport's Avatar
United_States
3381
Rep
7,539
Posts


Drives: Harrop M3 / F10 M5 / F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2000 BMW M5  [0.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [0.00]
2008 BMW M3  [7.50]
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M5  [0.00]
Somethings going on... those numbers are low.

Don't use Shell for a couple weeks. Use Chevron. Drive the hell out of it.

Then redyno. If power doesn't come up, logging ignition timing would be helpful to see what the car is doing.

It could be a fuel pressure sensor or something.

If numbers are not up you need to log ignition timing and see what's happening.
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 12:24 AM   #81
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Mike. Will try that as well.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:16 AM   #82
ortho281
Major
ortho281's Avatar
United_States
203
Rep
1,164
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Somethings going on... those numbers are low.

Don't use Shell for a couple weeks. Use Chevron. Drive the hell out of it.

Then redyno. If power doesn't come up, logging ignition timing would be helpful to see what the car is doing.

It could be a fuel pressure sensor or something.

If numbers are not up you need to log ignition timing and see what's happening.
Just curious. Why stop using Shell and use Chevron instead? I mostly use Shell, because where I live, they out number Chevron 8:1
__________________

Akra GT4 / MS Stage 2 / MS UDP / BPM Tune / KW CS / H&R Sways / TMS Delrin / ST 380/355 BBK / Cantrell 2.5" Ducts / SR34 Pads / Apex Arc-8 / Hoosier R7's / Mode GT4 Splitter / GT4 Canards / APR GT-250 Wing / Cantrell Half Cage / Recaro Pro Racer / Schroth Profi II-6 / BMW Alcantera Wheel / Cool Shirt / ESS Fire Supp / Solo DL

Last edited by ortho281; 12-07-2012 at 10:16 AM..
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:51 AM   #83
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Just another variable to change to see if that is part of the problem.
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #84
ortho281
Major
ortho281's Avatar
United_States
203
Rep
1,164
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
Just another variable to change to see if that is part of the problem.
I see. Hope you find the problem soon! Keep us posted.
__________________

Akra GT4 / MS Stage 2 / MS UDP / BPM Tune / KW CS / H&R Sways / TMS Delrin / ST 380/355 BBK / Cantrell 2.5" Ducts / SR34 Pads / Apex Arc-8 / Hoosier R7's / Mode GT4 Splitter / GT4 Canards / APR GT-250 Wing / Cantrell Half Cage / Recaro Pro Racer / Schroth Profi II-6 / BMW Alcantera Wheel / Cool Shirt / ESS Fire Supp / Solo DL
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 12:02 PM   #85
BPMSport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
BPMSport's Avatar
United_States
3381
Rep
7,539
Posts


Drives: Harrop M3 / F10 M5 / F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2000 BMW M5  [0.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [0.00]
2008 BMW M3  [7.50]
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ortho281 View Post
Just curious. Why stop using Shell and use Chevron instead? I mostly use Shell, because where I live, they out number Chevron 8:1
Not sure how it is in other states, but I've personally had the worst luck with Shell gas.

Shell threw my car into limp mode a few times, and that same week, a friend of mine with a 335 that filled up with shell at a different station, also went into limp mode. Both cars never saw limp mode before this fill up. After changing gas, no further problems.

It's not a conclusive determination, but I will never use their gas again. I fill up with Chevron pretty much religiously, and if not available I use 76. I definitely miss the Sunoco 94 when I lived on the east coast!

Looking at his AFR, it looks like the car is hitting the targeted AFR's for the most part. Because of how unsmooth the graph is, it looks like this is related to ignition - which could be something wrong with a plug/coil, or a gas issue, etc..

Curious if the car has any shadow codes in there..
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 02:28 PM   #86
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Would the BT tool show any shadow codes?
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 02:34 PM   #87
m3an
Banned
m3an's Avatar
39
Rep
1,590
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Not sure how it is in other states, but I've personally had the worst luck with Shell gas.

Shell threw my car into limp mode a few times, and that same week, a friend of mine with a 335 that filled up with shell at a different station, also went into limp mode. Both cars never saw limp mode before this fill up. After changing gas, no further problems.

It's not a conclusive determination, but I will never use their gas again. I fill up with Chevron pretty much religiously, and if not available I use 76. I definitely miss the Sunoco 94 when I lived on the east coast!

Looking at his AFR, it looks like the car is hitting the targeted AFR's for the most part. Because of how unsmooth the graph is, it looks like this is related to ignition - which could be something wrong with a plug/coil, or a gas issue, etc..

Curious if the car has any shadow codes in there..

Sunoco 94 has been gone for several years; now just 93
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 03:21 PM   #88
wheatpaste
Private First Class
12
Rep
101
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (3)

I'm pretty new to this engine, but the dyno plots that I've seen for both stock and modified cars tend to show almost a straight line for horsepower all the way to redline or close to it. On your plots, HP seems to plateau around 7000 rpm and torque drops significantly from that point to redline (which makes sense due to the relationship of HP and TQ). I would think if the car were pulling timing or it were a fueling or ignition issue, that you'd see more of a dip or spike, rather than just a leveling off... but that's sort of just speculation on my part.

I know that's not really a solution for you, just an observation.

EDIT:

Well I went back and saw that other M3s on the same dyno exhibit the same behavior, so maybe it's due to the elevation or possibly not having enough airflow in the dyno room. Your AFRs look kind of weird in some of those pulls too. They don't dip as rich compared to the other cars on the same dyno.

Last edited by wheatpaste; 12-07-2012 at 03:35 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:36 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST