Is the New Ford Mustang Better Than A BMW M3?

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by alms21

It sounds like you really care more about interior than exterior styling and performance. I say a Lexus is right up your alley.

Yeah sure, really cheesy

I don't know about road racing but i ran better times in my stock E92 M3 than some stock Z06's on slicks in autocross. If road racing was any harder they would've called it autocross. I guess there are not enough straightaways for the Z06 to make up...in autocross

I was at another Corvette AX event with a couple C6 Z06's (not a miata course,a corvette course) spectating,an E90 M3 on slicks got the FTD.

If you think the M3 from the E30 to the E9X only offers luxury, where have you been in last 25 years?

I guess you've been brainwashed to think you can't have performance,luxury and a beautiful interior/exterior.

Just some of my trophies,please take into account some regions don't give out trophies,not bad for a poseur.

[alms21]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

I don't know about road racing but i ran better times in my stock E92 M3 than some stock Z06's on slicks in autocross. If road racing was any harder they would've called it autocross. I guess there are not enough straightaways for the Z06 to make up...in autocross

I was at another Corvette AX event with a couple C6 Z06's (not a miata course,a corvette course) spectating,an E90 M3 on slicks got the FTD.

If you think the M3 from the E30 to the E9X only offers luxury, where have you been in last 25 years?

I guess you've been brainwashed to think you can't have performance,luxury and a beautiful interior/exterior.

Just some of my trophies,please take into account some regions don't give out trophies,not bad for a poseur.

First off, the word "poseur" was never used by me to describe an E9xM3 owner. In fact, I've given the M3 much credit and think it's a fantastic car (even so much as perhaps owning another one again if I don't go the Vette or GT-R route). I believe I clearly said it sits on top as far as combining peformance, interior appointments and daily driveability. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I get absolutely nothing out of autocrossing so your trophies and prowess on the AX circuit means nothing to me. I'd rather race go-karts then AX my car.

This should clearly tell you who the better performer is.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...695be960d.html

[Buck24bmw]

I almost never post but had to chime in, I don't know how the new mustang drives so I can't comment on that, I do however own a 07 GT500 and my Dad has an E90 M3. You just can't compare the two, the M3 has so much more feel through the wheel it's a joke, my GT500 feels awful and numb through corners, it can take them quick but lord knows where the limit is, the M3 feels like a precision tool through every corner. It really is an apples to oranges comparison. I have 500rwhp so obviously there is a big power difference with plans for more and I have a daily driver company vehicle, but given a choice between stock Mustang GT and M3, it's not even close, the only reason you buy the GT is because you couldn't afford the M3 IMO. I think if you could only buy one car the M3 is and has been the best DD out there. It reminds me of the car and driver comparison of the M3 vs. GTR vs. 997 turbo where they gave the win to the M3 because of price, yet how many of us would choose an M3 over a 997 turbo, I know I wouldn't and I love BMW.

[gthal]

The reality is that cars can really only get so much better before any improvement is so incremental it isn't even there outside a track. BMW could add another 100hp to the M3 but for what purpose? Make it faster to 60mph so that 75% of those who own it and never drive it anywhere other than city streets can get more speeding tickets?!? There will always be faster cars and that shouldn't matter.

For me, it is the complete package the M3 offers and, yes, the reputation and history. I don't believe anyone in the market shopping for an M3 would even consider the Mustang. Not because it isn't similar in performance but because the two are not going to be cross shopped very often (not that it won't happen but that would be the exception IMO). I believe that those who are looking for the best overall driving experience (looks, quality, interior, feedback, sound, power, handling) and have the financial means to buy an M3 will do so and won't likely be in the market for the Mustang. There will be those who have the means to buy the M3 and will opt for the Mustang for personal reasons but, again, they will be the exception instead of the rule IMO.

Having said that, some are getting WAY too defensive... nothing to be insecure about guys, there are now and will always be faster cars than ours and that's OK.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by alms21

First off, the word "poseur" was never used by me to describe an E9xM3 owner. In fact, I've given the M3 much credit and think it's a fantastic car (even so much as perhaps owning another one again if I don't go the Vette or GT-R route). I believe I clearly said it sits on top as far as combining peformance, interior appointments and daily driveability. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I get absolutely nothing out of autocrossing so your trophies and prowess on the AX circuit means nothing to me. I'd rather race go-karts then AX my car.

This should clearly tell you who the better performer is.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...695be960d.html

You probably know more about comparing cars than some of the most reputable car magazines who think Autocross is the best way to gauge a car's performance since it includes slaloms,tight turns,a lot of mini launches from almost a complete stop etc.


Read post #57 my first post in this thread had nothing to do with the interior.I was actually praising the Mustang's engine.


Earlier,you talked about that "sportscar" look as a Vette! that you like. what,are you stuck in the eighties?
I hate that knight rider,Magnum PI "sportscar" look,I'm sorry the 911 doesn't have that look.
An EVO ,Honda S200 etc. arent sporty looking enough to you? modified they do really well on the track and still cheaper than a stock Z06.

Talking about reading comprehension you reached the conclusion that a Lexus is up my alley,because I want a nice interior AS WELL.
That's like me reaching the conclusion that you're over 50 because you have the same taste in cars as G Gordon Liddy.


Responding to stingray23
Most people here are car enthusiasts,I don't think a lot of poseurs spend a lot of time on car forums. Some car enthusiasts are into cars of the pre-War World II era and they hate cheap interiors.Concours D'elegance comes to mind,it's all about chrome,wood ,leather,elegance,craftsmanship etc.

No need to act like a self congratulatory true car enthusiast because you dont mind the cheap interior and are more into hp.

Here in No Man's Land Iowa,I think the M3 looks just fine.I like that low key,not in your face presence and thank God! My idle valve unit didn't fail there see even the M3 has some shortcomings.

[MrHarris]

I'd pick the turbo over an M3 any day if I could afford it

[ipman58]

Those result test by Professional driver not u not me~
and how many owner here are "Professional Driver"
can u or me got the same score as they did?
and are we driving on road or track???

WoW Car so fast and? so what? no red light,traffic on the road? Top speed on road?

[alms21]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You probably know more about comparing cars than some of the most reputable car magazines who think Autocross is the best way to gauge a car's performance since it includes slaloms,tight turns,a lot of mini launches from almost a complete stop etc.


Read post #57 my first post in this thread had nothing to do with the interior.I was actually praising the Mustang's engine.


Earlier,you talked about that "sportscar" look as a Vette! that you like. what,are you stuck in the eighties?
I hate that knight rider,Magnum PI "sportscar" look,I'm sorry the 911 doesn't have that look.
An EVO ,Honda S200 etc. arent sporty looking enough to you? modified they do really well on the track and still cheaper than a stock Z06.

Talking about reading comprehension you reached the conclusion that a Lexus is up my alley,because I want a nice interior AS WELL.
That's like me reaching the conclusion that you're over 50 because you have the same taste in cars as G Gordon Liddy.


Responding to stingray23
Most people here are car enthusiasts,I don't think a lot of poseurs spend a lot of time on car forums. Some car enthusiasts are into cars of the pre-War World II era and they hate cheap interiors.Concours D'elegance comes to mind,it's all about chrome,wood ,leather,elegance,craftsmanship etc.

No need to act like a self congratulatory true car enthusiast because you dont mind the cheap interior and are more into hp.

Here in No Man's Land Iowa,I think the M3 looks just fine.I like that low key,not in your face presence and thank God! My idle valve unit didn't fail there see even the M3 has some shortcomings.

I don't read car magaiznes to formulate my opinons. I drive the damn things (the cars themselves). I drive them like they are supposed to be driven. I don't go searching trophies running around orange cones in a parking lot for Christsake.

Yes, a BMW M3 IS NOT a sportscar; it's a GT car. A Corvette is a sportscar. The fact that a Vette is deemed a sportscar by definition makes me somehow stuck in the 80's

The fact that you don't like the look of a certain car means nothing to me. The fact is, the Vette, much like the 911, is a sportscar icon. Whether you like it or not --- it's a fact.

While I respect the performance and modability of Evo's and Subaru's, they are hideous looking cars that are driven by 18 year old zit faced kids with hats worn sideways, a fart can exhaust whilst listening to the latest sh!t music from the hippest thug rap star. Sorry, not my style.

Your signature says much about you (which came back to bite you in the ass just recently)

for the record, G Gordon Liddy is the man.

what's the purpose of the picture with the girl in front of the car?

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by stingray23

You guys seem to have misunderstood what i meant by poseurs. I wasnt saying that ALL BMW owners are poseurs. far from it. What I meant by that was that the ones that buy this car thinking its gods greatest creation and downing anything and everything else. Those that over emphasize the "superiority" of their interiors over other "lesser" brands. Some people buy the wrong cars for the wrong reasons. I find it pointless to buy a performance car if you're not gonna drive it like its meant to be driven. Like buying an M3 just to say you have the top of the line 3 series and you cruise around leaning back on 22's and never even reaching 4K rpms let alone 8200. Thats a poseur.
The mustang may not be an M3, but maybe its not trying to be. With the mustang you get a lot of car for the money. Some people may think the M3 is overpriced like a porsche. Different strokes for different folks.
And BTW, out of all the german car makers, I like the BMW by far the most. We've had Bimmers in the family since 1982. I got my wife a 335i and we love it. My brother currently is on his 3rd bimmer in a row and he drives a 550i sport(great car). I'm not a BMW hater(far from it)I just cant stand the status guys that post shit about other car manufactures that have been around a lot longer and think they know what they are talking about because they got "a M3 bro", or " its german so its better", " I neva drive american bro".

Those people who spend countless of hours on their cars,modding,waxing them etc. know more about the M3 suspension,powertrain etc. than some who race their M3's don't you think they're car enthusiasts as well? to them an M3 is more than just a form of transportation,they individualize,take pride in their rides. They're passionate about their M3's on 22's as well.


You've just said different strokes for different folks,I know people who are into restored American muscle cars of the sixties and some are 12 second cars that'll never see the dragstrip, all they do is cruise main and hate imports. Are they poseurs too? I don't think so.

You make it sound like you're a car enthusiast,in the case of an M3 owner only if you drive it hard in the twisties

People get so passionate about their cars,it's not unsual for Mustang guys to talk shit about imports,Camaros ...sometimes they're not rational, WRX VS EVO etc.

Here's a definition of an enthusiast by merriam-wbster:


": a person filled with enthusiasm: as a : one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit <a sports car enthusiast> b : one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest "

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by alms21

I don't read car magaiznes to formulate my opinons. I drive the damn things (the cars themselves). I drive them like they are supposed to be driven. I don't go searching trophies running around orange cones in a parking lot for Christsake.

Yes, a BMW M3 IS NOT a sportscar; it's a GT car. A Corvette is a sportscar. The fact that a Vette is deemed a sportscar by definition makes me somehow stuck in the 80's

The fact that you don't like the look of a certain car means nothing to me. The fact is, the Vette, much like the 911, is a sportscar icon. Whether you like it or not --- it's a fact.

While I respect the performance and modability of Evo's and Subaru's, they are hideous looking cars that are driven by 18 year old zit faced kids with hats worn sideways, a fart can exhaust whilst listening to the latest sh!t music from the hippest thug rap star. Sorry, not my style.

Your signature says much about you (which came back to bite you in the ass just recently)

for the record, G Gordon Liddy is the man.

what's the purpose of the picture with the girl in front of the car?

To show you the good looks of my E92 M3,it might not look like a Pontiac trans am but I still like it.

on the sig,Just stating facts you don't see a lot of Audis and BMW's as part of rental car fleets in the states.
Reading comprehension again,I never said the M3 was more reliable than a Chevy.
In terms you can understand a BMW being less reliable than a Chevy doesn't contradict my sig,GM still provides the majority of rental cars in this country,somebody has to build rental cars.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by alms21

Yes, a BMW M3 IS NOT a sportscar; it's a GT car.

Disagree... it's not a GT... an Audi S5 is GT

Originally Posted by alms21

A Corvette is a sportscar. The fact that a Vette is deemed a sportscar by definition

Agree re: the Corvette but my question is where is the definition of "sports car"? I ask because I have seen it debated in various forums with no conclusive answer.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by alms21

I don't read car magaiznes to formulate my opinons. I drive the damn things (the cars themselves). I drive them like they are supposed to be driven. I don't go searching trophies running around orange cones in a parking lot for Christsake.

You just use the internet to formulate your opinions,in reference to the website link www.fastestlaps.com,you posted to make your point earlier, hahaha.
Both cars were close on tracks that weren't wide open.
You know what's amazing,the M3 is going against a two seater that weighs about 700 lbs less and has about 100 hp more and is in a higher class.

Z06 M3
Vairano Handling Course 1:19.523 1:20.276 .7 sec difference
Autozeitung test track 1:39.4 1:38.7 M3 here is faster

Do you see a pattern,handling course, test track vs the other wide open tracks?

M3's are about handling,driving around cones is about handling as well.
You wouldn't understand it,it's something poseurs do.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Buck24bmw

I almost never post but had to chime in, I don't know how the new mustang drives so I can't comment on that, I do however own a 07 GT500 and my Dad has an E90 M3. You just can't compare the two, the M3 has so much more feel through the wheel it's a joke, my GT500 feels awful and numb through corners, it can take them quick but lord knows where the limit is, the M3 feels like a precision tool through every corner.

A fair comment, but really the 2010 and especially the 2011 Mustang is a completely different animal from the 2005-2009. There has been a lot of refinement in the latest version. On top of that, it is well known (I'm sure you'll agree too) that the pre-2011 GT500 engine is outrageously heavy, and I believe that even the new aluminum block version in the 2011 still outweighs the new 5.0 by 100 lbs or so. So you are sort of out on a limb a bit in your comparison. Don't get me wrong - the GT500 in any form is a beast for sure. But it's shortcomings are pretty major, IMHO.

I honestly think that the 2011 Mustang GT will in fact be almost as fast as the GT500, especially the older one, in plenty of on-track scenarios. We shall see. But I am very curious to see how it does in C&D's meta-comparo next time around. My guess is that is going to be turning out some very impressive stats for what it is.

...the only reason you buy the GT is because you couldn't afford the M3 IMO.

That's one reason but as a corollary you might buy it because you think it offers more value, even though you could afford the M3 if you wanted.

I think if you could only buy one car the M3 is and has been the best DD out there.

Now that I can agree with 100%.

[CATCH_M3]

This is no different than what happened with the last M3/Mustang GT though too, in terms of the numbers.

2005 BMW M3:

333 hp (248 kW; 338 PS)
Torque: 262 lb·ft (355 N·m)
0-100 km/h (62 mph) — 4.8 seconds for SMG, 4.7 seconds for Manual, 5.1 seconds for cabriolet
1/4 Mile - Coupe: 13.3 sec @ 104 mph (167 km/h)[11], Convertible: 13.7 sec @ 104 mph (167 km/h) [12]
Top Speed - Coupe: 155 mph (249 km/h) (electronically limited),[13] 185 mph (298 km/h) (delimited)[11]
Skid Pad - Coupe: 0.89g,[10] Convertible: 0.81g [12]
Curb weight Coupe: 3,415 lb (1,549 kg)
Price: $59100

2005 Ford Mustang GT

Engine Size 4.6 liters / 281 cu. in.
Horsepower 300 @ 5750 rpm
Torque (lb-ft) 320 @ 4500 rpm
Curb Weight 3483 lbs.
0-60 mph : 5.1 sec
1/4 Mile ET: 13.3
1/4 Mile MPH: 104.030
Price $ 25705

Production for that M3 ended after 2006. Next M3 came out MY 2007, with Mustang GT debut 2005.

Production for the current M3 is probably going to end in 2012 and new F30 M3 is coming in MY 2013 most likely, with the new Mustang debuting 2011.

IMO the numbers look quite cyclical to last time. I am a fan of what Ford is doing for sure; kudos to them. I would take the Mustang over the other pony cars out currently I think (although I would have to drive them all to make the final decision), and the new 5.0L V8 looks Great, as I have said before. But I don't think this is a new phenomenon. M3 is not the fastest car out there, it's supposed to be M GmbH's answer to the 'perfect all-rounder'. (although that was not the original E30's purpose.)

E46 M3 Life: 2001-2006
Mustang 4.6 Life: 2005-2010
E92 M3 Life: 2007-Present
Mustang 5.0 Life: 2011-?

[Htown09]

apples to pineapples here folks. One car is a American muscle car the other is a European luxury sports car.

Let us appreciate the characteristics of both car's and leave it at that.

The new M3 will blow away the new ford. Why are you comparing the new gen mustang to an (about to be) old gen M3. Let us thank Ford for bumping up the horsepower so the new M3 will be forced to up the horsepower.

[J-9]

The M3 has destroyed a lot of horsepower boats in it's class, of which the new GT is not even apart of.

Although a return to the 5.0 deserves applause, the Mustang is looking to continue dominating the affordable horsepower market (ie Camaro), so this debate is misdirected. The reasons are too numerous to list ad nauseam. It's going to be the GT owners who will have to defend themselves for compromising on so many features if they want to compare with the M3.

I own an earlier model GT and drooled at the M3's, which is why I'm getting one now.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Mnut

I had a 06 GT which uses the same dashboard as the new 2011 and I had a dash creeking noise that drove me nuts. I had a blast driving it but you cant compare the 2 cars. They might have the same performance numbers but the M3 is just a 10 times more better designed. I almost ordered a 2011 stang and decided on a preowned 335i .
The Mustang has its good points but it will never be what a M3 is.

Ahh, the 2006 Mustang does not have the same dash as the 2010+ Must. GT. The new interior of the Mustang is actually quite nice and well put together. I'm getting rid of my 07 997S and I am cross shopping an M3 or Mustang. It really makes me wonder is worth it to spend an extra $25k to get a similar equipped car. Here's a photo of the new Mustang interior..



Don't get me wrong, if push comes to shove I would rather have the M3. However, when you factor in the $25k savings its hard NOT to look at the Mustang. I say great job Ford. Also, when you consider that this car gets 26mpg when the M3 is rated at 20mpg with a motor that's 1 litre bigger and not to mention that the Mustang makes 390 lbs/ft of torque vs. just 295 for the M3.

For those of you who think the Mustang can't handle better take a look at the point standing for GrandAm with Ford leading both BMW and Porsche.


Dave

[mixxer]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evolut...c/262882950647

405 hp on a mustang dyno with tune and exhaust!

[jrlee53]

The new 5.0 is definitely impressive. I just hope Ford's build quality has gotten that much better to offer that kind of performance at 30k. Don't want to see anyone go what I went through with my Cobra. I loved that car, but had to part with it because of the constant maintenance it needed. It cost me more to keep it running than it does for me paying off the M3. The last 4 months I owned it cost me $5k, I'd fix one thing and something completely unrelated would break the next week. I have to say though, getting $17k trade in for a car i paid $34k new in 7 years isn't bad at all. I hope this new GT 5.0 can keep its value just as well.

[graider]

Originally Posted by alpineweissM3

I don't know of a better sounding stock exhaust than the mustang gt. Exotics excluded of course. V8 'stangers are a ton of fun to drive, but no comparison to the total package our beloved M3's offer. So, to the original poster, please go get a GT. The less M3's on the road the better....as far as I'm concerned.

i second this. saw an orange one today and I'm not sure what version of mustang it is, but when he nailed it, i came.

[richardbb85]

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=713128

check it out if you are bored, quite a lot of people bash on the bmw

lol

[335rrr]

Originally Posted by Jesal@Project 808

Mustang is getting amazing reviews and im glad Ford has made such an great car. Bravo to them.

I just dont see many people cross shopping the two. I know I sure wouldnt.

I can't even remember the last time I went to a Found On Road Dead dealership...honest to god and am always screwing arround at dealerships. I pass by the Ford dealer and I look at their used car lot for potential German steals