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[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

I don't know why, but the handling is so brilliant on the M3 that I'd still hate to mess with it.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

Moderation is the key. I went with Dinan springs and 12mm spacer F&R and there is no downside, and it looks a heck of a lot better. With more drop and more offset you do run the risk of at least less ride comfort and possibly balance or handling issues at the extreme.

[Poppin Fresh]

I've heard from a couple of people the the 18f/15r combo when added with lowering springs may cause some rubbing. Just be on the lookout for that. I have the Rogue Engineering spacers (15/12) and they really make the car look much more aggressive.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Poppin Fresh

I've heard from a couple of people the the 18f/15r combo when added with lowering springs may cause some rubbing. Just be on the lookout for that. I have the Rogue Engineering spacers (15/12) and they really make the car look much more aggressive.

We have a few vehicles we've installed the Macht Schnell spacers in our reference thread that show the 15/18mm combos with aftermarket suspensions and no reports of any rubbing.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Moderation is the key. I went with Dinan springs and 12mm spacer F&R and there is no downside, and it looks a heck of a lot better. With more drop and more offset you do run the risk of at least less ride comfort and possibly balance or handling issues at the extreme.

Also, everyone please remember that the possible additional wear and tear on the wheel and/or hub bearings may wear quicker with spacers. Not the end of the world, but if you plan on keep your car for a bunch of miles and don't like dropping a ton of dough to keep it going, you should keep that in mind.

Cheers,
e46e92

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by CliffJumper

+1

The M3 will probably be the first car I don't lower. I feel the suspension is so awesome because it has room to travel. If I wanted a stiffer (and worse performing) ride , I wouldn't have gotten the EDC option.

At the M school in South Carolina, one of the key problems that all of the instructors pointed out with the M6 is that it had less travel in rear suspension compared to the M5, and that it contributed to a slightly more flighty rear-end. I have no interest in doing something like that to the M3, where it soaks up massive bumps mid-corner without a blink.

Very good point for staying stock on the suspension.

Originally Posted by linsm3

That's crazy, I'm a girl so trust me you have to do springs and a spacer to make the car look and feel better. My husband told me not to change the springs, blah, blah, the handling would decrease and I would regret it. Guess what, I don't and I love the look and I love the drive. No risk as far as I'm concerned.

I have to say that your husband's pretty smart.

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Moderation is the key. I went with Dinan springs and 12mm spacer F&R and there is no downside, and it looks a heck of a lot better. With more drop and more offset you do run the risk of at least less ride comfort and possibly balance or handling issues at the extreme.

This is simply the toughest mod decision I'll have to make for my M3. I give priority to performance over looks.

So I guess therefore I'll most likely stay stock on my suspension.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Also, everyone please remember that the possible additional wear and tear on the wheel and/or hub bearings may wear quicker with spacers. Not the end of the world, but if you plan on keep your car for a bunch of miles and don't like dropping a ton of dough to keep it going, you should keep that in mind.

Cheers,
e46e92

This has been brought up a number of times, likely it would have it would appeared first on the e46 models since they touched US soil back in 2001. For example - 30mm spacers are a common first upgrade for X5 owners, which are much heavier than our M3 brethren with 0 reports of issues and have been here since 2000.

BMWs are not the only vehicles to utilize spacers. With the minimal amounts we're discussing about on M3 applications, I doubt this is even an issue to be concerned about.

[FrenchBoy]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

We have a few vehicles we've installed the Macht Schnell spacers in our reference thread that show the 15/18mm combos with aftermarket suspensions and no reports of any rubbing.

I have tried both 15mm and 12mm spacers in the back and I am getting a bit of rubbing on the outside edge of the tire (stock suspension and 18" wheel/tire), albeit much less with the 12mm of course.

After inspection, it looks like a piece of the black plastic liner that wraps around where the rear fender and bumper meet is rubbing. I am surprised that people who have 12 and 15mm spacers are not reporting rubbing. It is pretty obvious and easily seen on the tire. Did they sand down the plastic piece?

I am considering maybe going with 10mm spacers although I do like how the 12mm spacer push the wheels out nicely in the rear.

Any advice?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by FrenchBoy

I have tried both 15mm and 12mm spacers in the back and I am getting a bit of rubbing on the outside edge of the tire (stock suspension and 18" wheel/tire), albeit much less with the 12mm of course.

After inspection, it looks like a piece of the black plastic liner that wraps around where the rear fender and bumper meet is rubbing. I am surprised that people who have 12 and 15mm spacers are not reporting rubbing. It is pretty obvious and easily seen on the tire. Did they sand down the plastic piece?

I am considering maybe going with 10mm spacers although I do like how the 12mm spacer push the wheels out nicely in the rear.

Any advice?

Odd, we've equipped a number of vehicles with the wider 15/18mm setups with no rubbing at all. Has your tire brand/sizing, suspension or variable changed at all?

[FrenchBoy]

Everything is stock except for the rear camber which is a tad bit more than stock (maybe by -.25-.30 degree than stock) but still within spec.

When I see how much the tires stick out already, I have a hard imagining that there's no rubbing with 18mm spacers in the rear. Could it be a coupe vs. sedan issue?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by FrenchBoy

Everything is stock except for the rear camber which is a tad bit more than stock (maybe by -.25-.30 degree than stock) but still within spec.

When I see how much the tires stick out already, I have a hard imagining that there's no rubbing with 18mm spacers in the rear. Could it be a coupe vs. sedan issue?

Shouldn't be - here's an e90 with the 15/18mm setup on stock suspension:

Before:










After:

[elm3]

Anybody has issues with the steering wheel vibrating while at highway speeds? (75-80)? Ever since I installed my H&Rs (15mm all the way around) I've been having issues with my steering wheel vibrating at highway speeds.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by elm3

Anybody has issues with the steering wheel vibrating while at highway speeds? (75-80)? Ever since I installed my H&Rs (15mm all the way around) I've been having issues with my steering wheel vibrating at highway speeds.

No, but it's not uncommon. Spacers, especially getting up to over 1/2", will accentuate any existing imbalance you have in your tire/wheel assemblies. Need to get them rebalanced.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Elm3,

First thing I would check, would be a missing wheel balancing weight. It could have been inadvertently knocked off during the previous spacer installation. Many times, these balancing weights are just sticky tape that adheres to the inside barrel of the wheel. They can (and do) fly off from time-to-time.

If that's not it...

Sometimes, you will have a slightly bent wheel or 'out of round' radial tire, and pushing the entire wheel/tire assembly out 10-15mm can be enough to cause the wheel to shimmy just a bit.

There is also a remote chance that your spacer installation was flawed.

If you do not clean off the entire hub surface before installing the spacers, they will not sit FLUSH against the hub. That will also result in a shaking sensation in the wheel The axis of the rotating tire & wheel will not be aligned with axis of the rotating hub. Increased speeds typically magnify this condition as well.

There is also a small chance that the spacers are not hubcentric like they are supposed to be. The H&R spacers should have a 'transition fit', or in other words...fit very tightly onto the brake hub. If there is any side-to-side play between the spacer bore and the brake hub bore, this can lead to wheel shake at speed. There should be no play between the two parts. In fact, a true hubcentric spacer may require you to tap it on with a rubber mallet. There is also a chance the hub of your wheel, or the hub lip on the spacer has been machined to the wrong size. Once you get the wheel off, lay the wheel down on a towel with the backside of the wheel facing UP. Place the spacer lip inside the hub bore of your wheel, and see if you can move it from side-to-side. If there is any play, then that's your problem.

Make sure you are using the proper wheel bolt tightening sequence, and double check your bolts to insure you didn't under-tighten or over-tighten the spacer bolts. Exceeding the BMW factory recommended wheel tightening limit can result in a slightly warped hub which will also cause a vibration.

For anyone who doesn't know, here is the BMW factory recommend wheel bolt torque value: 88ft/lbs.

There is a margin of error of + or - 3% for this wheel bolt tightening spec., so you don't have to perfect. Anything around 100 ft.lbs (or above) can cause a slight warpage of the rotor, so be careful with those high-powered air impact guns...

It's faster and cheaper just to check most of this out for yourself. Try to fix this yourself at home. It's a lot less hassle.

Remove the wheel and spacer, and make sure you follow all these instructions:

Remove any rust or dirt present on all the metal surfaces. (front or back) These surfaces must be absolutely clean. Check the 'dry fitment' of all the mating surfaces. Every piece should fit tightly against the other. (no slack) If they don't all fit together in this manner, then you've found your problem. If they do all fit together properly, then it's time to re-install everything for real now.

Disassemble all the parts, and apply a thin-layer of nickle or copper anti-seize paste on the brake hub area where the spacer fit. This will keep the spacer from becoming seized onto the hub over time. Install the spacer on the brake hub and properly align the bolt holes.

Next, install the wheel on the lip of the spacer and screw in 1 bolt to hold the wheel securely in place. Install the rest of the bolts (hand tight), and use a long ratchet extension adapter and 17mm socket to reach inside the wheel bolt holes. It makes things so much easier.

Once all 5 wheel bolts have been hand tightened, then use a torque wrench. (borrow one if you don't have this tool)

Tighten the wheel bolts to 88ft.lbs in the cross-hatch pattern shown in the photo. That basically insures that you are tightening the wheel down evenly.




Last thing...

When you are done, take a test drive and see if the wheel shake has disappeared. If it's still there (with exactly the same intensity), then you have a damaged wheel or tire problem.

[monk]

What is the highest speed you went with spacers installed? anyone have issue with speed above 120mph?
I am looking to get 15mm spacers all around and wondering if I can still doing 150mph safely as stock on a race track. Thanks.

[david @ eas]

Originally Posted by monk

What is the highest speed you went with spacers installed? anyone have issue with speed above 120mph?
I am looking to get 15mm spacers all around and wondering if I can still doing 150mph safely as stock on a race track. Thanks.

I've hit 170mph with a set of 15mm spacers all around (obviously not my slow E46), but the car I was driving seemed to not have any effect by the spacers in terms of vibrations or any weird noises.

[elm3]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Elm3,

First thing I would check, would be a missing wheel balancing weight. It could have been inadvertently knocked off during the previous spacer installation. Many times, these balancing weights are just sticky tape that adheres to the inside barrel of the wheel. They can (and do) fly off from time-to-time.

If that's not it...

Sometimes, you will have a slightly bent wheel or 'out of round' radial tire, and pushing the entire wheel/tire assembly out 10-15mm can be enough to cause the wheel to shimmy just a bit.

There is also a remote chance that your spacer installation was flawed.

If you do not clean off the entire hub surface before installing the spacers, they will not sit FLUSH against the hub. That will also result in a shaking sensation in the wheel The axis of the rotating tire & wheel will not be aligned with axis of the rotating hub. Increased speeds typically magnify this condition as well.

There is also a small chance that the spacers are not hubcentric like they are supposed to be. The H&R spacers should have a 'transition fit', or in other words...fit very tightly onto the brake hub. If there is any side-to-side play between the spacer bore and the brake hub bore, this can lead to wheel shake at speed. There should be no play between the two parts. In fact, a true hubcentric spacer may require you to tap it on with a rubber mallet. There is also a chance the hub of your wheel, or the hub lip on the spacer has been machined to the wrong size. Once you get the wheel off, lay the wheel down on a towel with the backside of the wheel facing UP. Place the spacer lip inside the hub bore of your wheel, and see if you can move it from side-to-side. If there is any play, then that's your problem.

Make sure you are using the proper wheel bolt tightening sequence, and double check your bolts to insure you didn't under-tighten or over-tighten the spacer bolts. Exceeding the BMW factory recommended wheel tightening limit can result in a slightly warped hub which will also cause a vibration.

For anyone who doesn't know, here is the BMW factory recommend wheel bolt torque value: 88ft/lbs.

There is a margin of error of + or - 3% for this wheel bolt tightening spec., so you don't have to perfect. Anything around 100 ft.lbs (or above) can cause a slight warpage of the rotor, so be careful with those high-powered air impact guns...

It's faster and cheaper just to check most of this out for yourself. Try to fix this yourself at home. It's a lot less hassle.

Remove the wheel and spacer, and make sure you follow all these instructions:

Remove any rust or dirt present on all the metal surfaces. (front or back) These surfaces must be absolutely clean. Check the 'dry fitment' of all the mating surfaces. Every piece should fit tightly against the other. (no slack) If they don't all fit together in this manner, then you've found your problem. If they do all fit together properly, then it's time to re-install everything for real now.

Disassemble all the parts, and apply a thin-layer of nickle or copper anti-seize paste on the brake hub area where the spacer fit. This will keep the spacer from becoming seized onto the hub over time. Install the spacer on the brake hub and properly align the bolt holes.

Next, install the wheel on the lip of the spacer and screw in 1 bolt to hold the wheel securely in place. Install the rest of the bolts (hand tight), and use a long ratchet extension adapter and 17mm socket to reach inside the wheel bolt holes. It makes things so much easier.

Once all 5 wheel bolts have been hand tightened, then use a torque wrench. (borrow one if you don't have this tool)

Tighten the wheel bolts to 88ft.lbs in the cross-hatch pattern shown in the photo. That basically insures that you are tightening the wheel down evenly.




Last thing...

When you are done, take a test drive and see if the wheel shake has disappeared. If it's still there (with exactly the same intensity), then you have a damaged wheel or tire problem.

I will try this, thank you very much for respponding.

[monk]

Anyone here brought their car to the dealer with spacers on? Any issue or comments from the dealer? Thanks.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by monk

Anyone here brought their car to the dealer with spacers on? Any issue or comments from the dealer? Thanks.

I doubt they would even notice unless you have non-OEM wheels on the car.

Technically, BMW can deny a warranty claim for any number of reasons. Some are logical, while others are a stretch.

It's entirely up to the Service Advisor's and the Service Manager's discretion.

If you act like a dik, then it's much more likely that you will have issues with the dealership service dept. in regards to warranty claims.

Many owners can't seem to understand that simple concept...

Bottom line: Always be courteous and respectful to your SA, and don't be too overbearing when you need them to fix your car. Be insistent, without being a JERK. A little kindness (on your part) will go a long way in the future.

[monk]

If I part next to the stock M3, I will notice right away. I look alot better. So I guess the Tech would know. I have 18"OEM wheels. The car look fat with 15mm all around, corner very nice.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by monk

If I part next to the stock M3, I will notice right away. I look alot better. So I guess the Tech would know. I have 18"OEM wheels. The car look fat with 15mm all around, corner very nice.

What exactly is your car going in for anyway?

[monk]

Annual service.